India should keep scriptures out of science

[recon scout]

Religious stuff is to please the jobless conservatives and the older generation.
As long as modern science and technology is being promoted (like large scale solar parks), you can't really blame the government.

The masses are gullible enough to be swayed by superstitions. Real change is being brought about by the visionaries, the industrialists, the professionals, the middle class.

We can still keep our culture intact even as the country and society changes and moves further into the modern age. Why piss away thousands of years of our heritage ?

You don't kill your dog when it becomes old, do you ?

 

[mandrom]

India should keep scriptures out of science
To find a clear science of physics or biology in stories of great power is a strange, infantile obsession

By C.P. Surendran, Special to Gulf News
Published: 16:26 March 12, 2018

In Delhi, on Sunday, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French President Emmanuel Macron co-chaired the first International Solar Alliance (ISA), a group of 62 nations determined to make solar energy the main source of light and heat in practical applications.

Who would quarrel with the good intention of the 33 nations present at the convention? Who would grudge them that almost altruistic ambition?

Yet, amid all the bonhomie and earnest aspiration, there was a shadow. The shadow of superstition.

Indeed, with Macron promising some $860 million (Dh3.16 billion) by 2022 for solar projects in developing countries, and Modi himself claiming his country would be generating 175 gigawatts — gigawatts, as a cynic improved upon the term — power from renewable sources by the now nearly magical goal year of 2022, in fact, double India’s renewable energy capacity, there was the ubiquitous Vedic reference uttered by Modi, and stranger than usual for the context.

As a newspaper quoted him, this is what Modi said: “Vedas consider the Sun as the soul of the world, it has been considered as a life nurturer. Today, for combating climate change, we need to look at this ancient idea to find a way,” Modi said in New Delhi.

This is in keeping with a recent trend on the part of the Modi regime to find ancient answers to modern questions.

It is not uncommon these days to find researchers in accredited institutions actively writing academic papers reinterpreting what is now popularly called “Vedic science.” Consider for example a paper titled, Origin of Environmental Science From Vedas by Shashi Tiwari, where he says: “In Vedic view, this world consists of Agni i.e., fire or heat and Soma or water. Sun [Surya] is the soul of all which is moving and also of which is not moving.”

While it is not clear what is the exact text or dissertation upon which Modi based his observations, the general thought process of the Vedic scientists consist, in this context, of seeing the sun as the source of our existence.

The central relationship of sun to Man is fairly plain, and is likely to be evident even to our ancestors. And as in the quote above, what we get in Hindu scriptures is praise for the sun. But that hardly warrants attributing to them a whole metrics of the sun, a whole science of deriving energy from the sun.

This is not the first time, the ruling BJP has resorted to the scriptures for a Hindu hegemony of sorts over the discipline of science. Since their coming to power in 2014, important leaders like the union home minister Rajnath Singh has repeatedly exhorted the layman and the specialist to go back to the Vedas and Mahabharata for answers.

There have been allusions from the spokesmen of the BJP and its mother organisation, RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh), that IVF, for instance, had been widely practised in those distant times. Teleportation, too, a wildly popular mode of transport of the saints. Not to mention planes (as in Ravan’s use of Pushpak Viman to abduct Sita in Ramayana) or the use of nuclear missiles (as in the bow and arrow battles between Arjun and Ashwathama in Mahabharata).

To find a clear science of physics or biology in these stories of great power is a strange, infantile obsession. To actually fund institutions and individuals in this pursuit is a waste of meagre resources. But for a prime minister to believe and advocate a myth written or told over 3,000 years ago at an international convention of alternate energy is to officially endorse a Vedic prayer to the sun as a whole science of life is a general licence for a society to slip into mayhem.

The prime minster unexceptionally concluded his address at the ISA by quoting the Shanti Mantra from the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad, Tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, which translates as “Lead me from darkness to light”. This is an aspirational sentiment.

The trouble is to believe that the light is ever at your back, in the past. Look back, if you must; but march forward. Certainly, for India, there is a lot of ground to cover.

C.P. Surendran is a senior journalist based in India.
http://gulfnews.com/opinion/thinkers/india-should-keep-scriptures-out-of-science-1.2186640

We are not asking Islamists for advice .

 

[Nalini]

Because other so-called scriptures are about religion.
Winnie the Pooh for instance is not a science manual.

Different strokes, Tay.

Exactly we have Jataka tales, Amar Chitra Katha & many other books for instance which is not a science manual.

What ever said about religion in your holy scripture, is also mentioned in ours & many other things are explained in a far different perspective. You will find much more detailed meaning & philosophy in our holy scriptures than any other modern religious scripture.

Just for eg. our Vedas talks about Consciousness, Kundalini & invoking the supernatural powers which no other scriptures talk off. Our scriptures is the only scriptures which tells how to attain supernatural powers, which is in modern day used by many countries in managing stress, relationships, values, life goals, motivation & inspiration. Telepathy, The power of the sub-conscious mind, your body achieves what your mind believes, are all derivatives from Hindu & Buddhist scriptures. If you have read the book Secret or watched the movie version for eg;- The concept is from our religion. You can even heal any disease or ailment if you master your mind. It's not only mentioned in most of our holy scriptures, but the same subject will have a separate book which goes into full detail of the subject.

Our holy scripture will have a summarized explanation of science because the focus is given on Dharma & your karmic acts, so the detailed scientific aspects are explained in separate books which specializes in only that subject.

For Eg; Yoga is about how to control your mind & body, for not only health but as you progress & graduate from one level to other higher level, you are on the way to getting consciousness & these supernatural powers & experiences.

So according to our scriptures even a Human being can become God if he/she follows the teachings in the scriptures & can attain the same powers like God. They can defend themselves from attacks from these powers & also protect. This is the biggest difference in our scriptures & others. Just for your knowledge - every human being has the capability to double or triple their intelligence & performance level, if they know how to control their mind & body.

It can be proven with living people with these powers attained through the practices. Whereas other scriptures talk of all supernatural powers, but you can't prove it. It's just a obsessed brainwashed blind religious assumption. We don't force anybody to believe us, if you have doubt try it & experience it yourself. Yes, there are certain system you need to follow & sacrifice many normal practices by following the rules & instructions to attain things mentioned. And there are thousands, who have experienced & mastered it. Even many critics try just to prove these fake, try these methods just to be shocked it's true, when they experience these powers themselves & they come to know what's spirituality & God.

Same applies for you or anybody who defend your religion & abuse ours as pagans & mock at it. I don't have to tell you, our religion is great, nor will tell you to accept it. But if you want to test it, go test it yourself & you will know the truth yourself. Steve Jobs & Mark Zuckerberg are just a couple big names, who attained everything trying our methods mentioned in scriptures.

The title of the thread is India should keep scriptures out of science. When the world's best scientists themselves use our scriptures for their scientific research as reference, why should we Indians shy away from our own scriptures. And why do they refer - is because nobody knows these facts which are still not proven by science & they have no guide for their research & progress.

Many topics are explained in our scriptures thousands of years ago & many things are getting proven right. So most feel even the others which are still being researched will also be one day proven right by the modern day scientists.

For eg; People mock Indians for our claims, that Cow Urine has medicinal properties which can cure most diseases. That's ok, but you also need to think, no other books of the world talks of such unknown things to modern science. It's only India. That's why our scriptures are totally different from any other books, be it religious or historic books.

If somebody mocks it, who cares, it will only be till it's proven right. So ultimately it's the result, a country's development & achievements, which will be appreciated. The world will be more & more interested to research for every bizarre things mentioned in our scriptures once it is scientifically proven true.

Most countries of the world & its leaders visit India or have close relation because of India's achievements. If India didn't have money to spend, we would be treated the same way how we were treated 20-30 years ago. And when Britishers left they left us illiterates & bankrupt. We didn't have the educated people or money for research & development, but today our brains are increasing & we can dedicate some part of our reserves for R & D. But we are still 2 decades behind the west, but with more growth, money & education we will catch up in next 2-3 decades.

 

[Taygibay]

& invoking the supernatural powers which no other scriptures talk off. Our scriptures is the only scriptures which tells how to attain supernatural powers, ...

Well, I think I know why and besides, shamans
and other mystical belief systems actually went
even wilder but let's go on ...

... which is in modern day used by many countries in managing stress, relationships, values, life goals, motivation & inspiration.

Oh! that kind of stuff, yes, of course, DHR fun ETC,

Telepathy, The power of the sub-conscious mind, your body achieves what your mind believes, are all derivatives from Hindu & Buddhist scriptures.

Enlightened non-desi advice : if that
telepathy stuff works, don't try it on
the average Pakistani, . . . you'll be
scarred for life!

So according to our scriptures even a Human being can become God if he/she follows the teachings in the scriptures & can attain the same powers like God. They can defend themselves from attacks from these powers & also protect.

My scriptures ask me to attempt to
be like God and life has so far taught
me that I won't succeed but that's a
personal slant so let's see it your way ...

And when Britishers left, they left us illiterates & bankrupt.

Ah!?! So what went wrong with that
statement / plan from the prior quote?

For eg; People mock Indians for our claims, that Cow Urine has medicinal properties which can cure most diseases. That's ok, but you also need to think, no other books of the world talks of such unknown things to modern science.

There might be a reason or two for that
but again, other books do make claims
that sound "miraculous", i.e. incredible.

That's why our scriptures are totally different from any other books, be it religious or historic books. If somebody mocks it, who cares, it will only be till it's proven right. So ultimately it's the result, a country's development & achievements, which will be appreciated. The world will be more & more interested to research for every bizarre things mentioned in our scriptures once it is scientifically proven true.

Yes, your scriptures are different and worthy.
You may be surprised to know that in a single
life, I've read and kept the Bible, Koran and a
Bardo Thodol that survived 3 house fires [ Book
of the dead indeed! ] as well as a Bhagavad Gita and
a Dhammapada and a few more and that I did
yoga and transcendental meditation. I'm not
claiming black belts in all but I'm no slouch.

Still, every time a Christian or Sikh or Muslim &
OFC any Hindu does charity or a similar good
deed, it is a supernatural power at work in the
sense that it was motivated by the word of God.

Those super powers you mentioned remain as
of now elusive however and it calls in the old
IST element : When will they be available even
if only to Bharatiyas?

How long do eons last in Indian Stretchable Time?
All of your rebirths? Eternity?

I credit and admire India for its imagination but
it is an old incandescent bulb flashlight to a laser
in relation to how unfocused/useless it remains!

No hard feelings my good man but mixing science
and religion is the perfect way to keep both stuck
in the past. Each has to relate to the world or ...

Live long and prosper, Tay.

 

[prashantazazel]

We can still keep our culture intact even as the country and society changes and moves further into the modern age. Why piss away thousands of years of our heritage ?

You don't kill your dog when it becomes old, do you ?

By culture I assume you mean mythology. I like the stories, but would laugh at those who take it literally.
The violent and illiberal aspects are better discarded though.

What I like about the Indian culture- respect for elders, never say die attitude.
What I don't like- when adults don't have a backbone when they need to confront the society /parents.

 

[Nalini]

Well, I think I know why and besides, shamans and other mystical belief systems actually went even wilder but let's go on ...

Meditation is not about contacting spirits according to our scriptures. Go through the link

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meditation

I have already mentioned in my post, there are certain system you need to follow & sacrifice many normal practices by following the rules & instructions to attain things mentioned. Kindly go check. If you want to attain Godly powers, He/she has to be selfless & if you have desire & attachments it's not possible. That's reason, if you see a Hindu holy man or a monk, you can see from their face & body language, they are very humble, calm, peaceful & smiling. Almost always they will not get offended, angry, jealous or have revengeful feelings or approach. They will talk the language of love & peace. So it's not possible for anybody & everybody. Not for a today's generation common man

One main basic feature for a holy man is to not have sexual attraction towards the opposite sex. If they hold, touch a man or woman their mind should not get any feelings of lust or thought of intimacy or desire. They should be able to view any person as just a person. So preferably he/she needs to be a Bramachari (Bachelor) or leave the family life & attachment like Gauthama Buddha (man or material attachment) & some of the other few basics to follow, I mention below.

Ahiṃsā - nonviolence, non-harming or killing other living beings
Satya - truthfulness
Asteya - not stealing
Dayā - kindness, compassion
Ārjava - non-hypocrisy, sincerity
Kṣamā - forgiveness
Dhṛti - fortitude
Mitāhāra - moderation in diet both in terms of quantity and quality
Śauca - purity, cleanliness
Tapas - austerity, persistence and perseverance in one's purpose
Santoṣa - contentment, acceptance of others and of one's circumstances as they are, optimism for self
Dāna - generosity, charity, sharing with others

Just mentioning basics. He/she will have power to destroy others but will not use it for violence. They will only use it when required to protect & defend. There are many other things. If a Saint, preacher or a holy man does not have these characteristics he's not a holy man.

Those super powers you mentioned remain as of now elusive however and it calls in the old
IST element : When will they be available even if only to Bharatiyas?

There are many people who already have mastered some of the powers in today's world. These people don't use it for fame or money. That's why you don't know them. But there are many. And it's not restricted to Indians, anybody can acquire these powers by following the practices to achieve it.

How long do eons last in Indian Stretchable Time? All of your rebirths? Eternity?

Rebirth, is governed by the law of karma. The simple answer is, we can either be reborn (punar-janma) and experience life once again, or be liberated (moksha) from the cycle of rebirth (samsara). Those who believe in rebirth believe you keep coming back from the land of the dead (pitr-loka) to the land of the living (bhu-loka) until you learn the ultimate lesson after which you no longer feel the need for a body. I would say when you have lived through all your past sins, become content & have no more desires that's when you are liberated & attain moksha. Go through the link below, than me explaining.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moksha

I credit and admire India for its imagination but it is an old incandescent bulb flashlight to a laser in relation to how unfocused/useless it remains!

No hard feelings my good man but mixing science and religion is the perfect way to keep both stuck in the past. Each has to relate to the world or ...

Live long and prosper, Tay.

YW dude.

Religion is man made. Religion is created by people who are selfish, who want fame & want to control. A God will never say I am the only God & all others are wrong. That shows he's selfish, jealous & dividing. That's a human behavior. If tomorrow the world teaches their children nothing about the term Islam, Christianity, Jew, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhism or any other religion - there won't be any fights or these kind of discussions in the world. If we raise our children as just human beings, they will read any or all of these holy scriptures, the world will have no groupism, communities & it will become the most peaceful place in the universe.

Because everybody claims their religion, Indians also claim theirs as Hindu religion. Otherwise there was no concept of Hinduism as religion. It's just a way of life for anybody. It is actually called Sanatana Dharma not Hinduism. It means anybody who follows the path of dharma are the sanathan's (Children) of Dharma (Righteousness). So Sanatana Dharma means Children of Righteousness. It's no where religion basically. Today because only Indians follow these scriptures, we claim this group as Hindus - so the religion.

The scriptures says that the grace of God is ever flowing equally toward all. It is not felt until one feels the need for it. The joys and suffering of a human individual are of his/her own making. Good and evil are mind-made and not God-created. Ask yourself can it be right. Ask who governs the people who have no religion & can the above be true. Which or whose God will punish them.

So according to these ancient books if you are truthful, kind, humble, serving others, not greedy & doing right there is no need of God. Your deeds are itself Godly. Nobody can punish you, if you are truthful, not even the so called God. How can a God punish someone who is truthful & served humanity, which is the very purpose of a man on this planet, & if he does punish a human who has not sinned, he's not God. God cannot have human thoughts, rules & selfish approaches. A common man can seek God when they need guidance if required & the God will only intervene, when you do things against the law to install peace & to protect the right.

So we are actually referring to these scriptures for reference & guidance, if somebody says we are attaching our research or science with religion that's because they consider it a religious text IMHO. If not it's just a reference guide like a instruction manual or any other literature book. And I am not God, saint or a holy being. My debate is only based on what's written in these scriptures TBH.

Thanks. AMA. What I know I answer. TGIF. So you HF.
Me gonna grab a J&B for me & Hubby. EDP - CHEERIO