India/Russia Working on Stealth for SU30MKI

[Gripen NG]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77816&d=1247020786

The picture below is suposed to be a MKI that has been improved with internal weapons bay & ram coating to reduce RCS

India which fields over 100 mki fighters is using technology off the PAK FA to furthr improve the mki stealth and add the PAK FA poposoed AESA radar over the next few years..

The programme almost mirrors USA F15 SILENT EAGLE PROGRAMME

This is interesting but very important developments for PAF who are looking to challenge the backbone of the IAF with their own new backbone fighter THE THUNDER JF17

The Photoshopped picture is not even an MKI



MKI has canards, some fan boy made it & Indians are jumping

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I must say, this is welcome news.
Internal Weapons bay.
Salient stealth Features.
Same uprated engines as on the FGFA

I dont see any reason for it not to work.


Since the next upgrade of the MKI is 2018. we might see some of these silent killers then.

One has to wonder if this is the reason the IAF ordered 50 more MKI

Sure your right these MKIs dont need upgrades till 2018 real silent killers with NO CANNARDS PHOTOSHOP im loving it.

 

[gogbot]

Sure your right these MKIs dont need upgrades till 2018 real silent killers with NO CANNARDS PHOTOSHOP im loving it.

First of

The Stealth Flanker is a Russian development

India is not developing anything here.

No canards does not mean, India cant get a Non-canard MKI from Russia.

MKI is just the classification for Su-30's developed to meet Indian requirements, which were Higher then the standard MK versions.


If the Ruskies have a Stealth Flanker, India can get it.

Its as simple as that

 

[desiman]

Stealth for SU30

Let me add to your knowledge RCS of SU30 is much more than JF-17 it means SU30 is much more visible on radar than JF-17.
remember..americans told you same after red flag.
Ram coating which indian geniouses are applying today on their SU30 is a copy from JF-17 development.
PAKFA joint contract with russia is also a lesson learned from JF-17 development.
Their is a long list but lets keep limited to the discussion so far.

Just having a bigger RCS does not mean its easier to spot than the JF-17, there is much more to stealth and radars than just the RCS, im hoping you know that. PAKFA is not at all connected to the JF-17 deal in any remote way, please back statements like these with proof. There is no such outstanding tech in the JF-17 that the Russians and Indian need to learn from it till now.

 

[gambit]

Just having a bigger RCS does not mean its easier to spot than the JF-17, there is much more to stealth and radars than just the RCS, im hoping you know that. PAKFA is not at all connected to the JF-17 deal in any remote way, please back statements like these with proof. There is no such outstanding tech in the JF-17 that the Russians and Indian need to learn from it till now.

Correction...

There is LITTLE more to 'stealth' than radar cross section (RCS) value. To date, the best sensor to provide crucial target data information is still radar. Infrared can only provide general target direction, but not more complex target variables like speed and altitude. If ground spotters hear an aircraft, they cannot direct a missile towards that aircraft. They can only alert other humans that there is an aircraft coming this or thataway. It is still up to the missile's radar to find that aircraft. Until a weapon system is ENTIRELY radar indepdendent but still receive vital target information as provided by radar, reduced RCS remains the best defense.

 

[Storm Force]

PLZ SEE HYPER LINK RE THE SU30MKI upgrade mk2

Defence Aviation - Su-30MKI to go stealthy

mk1 su30mki came with pesa radar and R77/727 BVR MISSLES

MK2 SU30MKI FROM 2014 will see PESA radars replaced with AESA IBRIS RADAR a new RAMJET bvr MISSLE 300KM RANGE and new reduction in RCS ram coating internal weapons bay and new smartskin electronics

 

[IBRIS]

PAKFA RCS revealed

India, Russia close to PACT on next generation fighter

Ajai Shukla / New Delhi January 05, 2010, 0:38 IST

Late last year, a defence ministry delegation to Sukhoi’s flagship aircraft facility in Siberia became the first Indians to set eyes upon the next-generation fighter that is slated to form the backbone of the future Indian Air Force (IAF). In that first meeting, carefully choreographed by Sukhoi, the new fighter, standing on the tarmac waved a welcome to the Indians, moving all its control fins simultaneously.

The effect, recounts one member of that delegation, was electric. The senior IAF officer there walked silently up to the aircraft and touched it almost incredulously. This was the Sukhoi T-50, the first technology demonstrator of what India terms the Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA). Senior defence ministry sources tell Business Standard that — after five years of haggling over the FGFA’s form, capabilities and work-share — a detailed contract on joint development is just around the corner.

The contract, which Bangalore-based Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) will sign with Russia’s United Aircraft Corporation (UAC), will commit to building 250 fighters for the IAF and an equal number for Russia. The option for further orders will be kept open. HAL and UAC will be equal partners in a joint venture company, much like the Brahmos JV, that will develop and manufacture the FGFA.

The cost of developing the FGFA, which would be shared between both countries, will be $8-10 billion (Rs 37,000-45,000 crore). Over and above that, say IAF and defence ministry sources, each FGFA will cost Rs 400-500 crore.

Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”
[That means that while a Su-30MKI would be as visible to enemy radar as a metal object 5 metres X 4 metres in dimension, the FGFA’s radar signature would be just 1/40th of that.]

A key strength of the 30-35 tonne FGFA would be data fusion; the myriad inputs from the fighter’s infrared, radar, and visual sensors would be electronically combined and fed to the pilots in easy-to-read form.

The FGFA partnership was conceived a decade ago, in 2000, when Sukhoi’s celebrated chief, Mikhail Pogosyan, invited a visiting Indian Air Force officer out to dinner in Moscow. Boris Yeltsin’s disastrous presidency had just ended, and Russia’s near bankruptcy was reflected in the run-down condition of a once-famous restaurant. But, as the IAF officer recounts, the vodka was flowing and Pogosyan was in his element, a string of jokes translated by a female interpreter.

Late that evening Pogosyan turned serious, switching the conversation to a secret project that, officially, did not even exist. Sukhoi, he confided to the IAF officer, had completed the design of a fifth generation fighter, as advanced as America’s F-22 Raptor, which is still the world’s foremost fighter. Russia’s economy was in tatters, but Sukhoi would develop its new, high-tech fighter if India partnered Russia, sharing the costs of developing the fighter at Sukhoi’s plant, Komsomolsk-on-Amur Aircraft Production Organisation (KnAAPO).

Reaching out to India was logical for Russia. During the 1990s — when thousands of Russian military design bureaus starved for funds, and a bankrupt Moscow cancelled 1,149 R&D projects — India’s defence purchases had kept Russia’s defence industry alive, bankrolling the development of the Sukhoi-30 fighter; the Talwar-class stealth frigates; the Uran and Klub ship-borne missiles; and the MiG-21 upgrade.

But co-developing a fifth generation fighter is a different ball game, financially and technologically, and India’s MoD hesitated to sign up. Meanwhile enriched by hydrocarbon revenues, Moscow gave Sukhoi the green light to develop the FGFA, which Russia terms the PAK-FA, the acronym for Perspektivnyi Aviatsionnyi Kompleks Frontovoi Aviatsy (literally Prospective Aircraft Complex of Frontline Aviation).

Today, Russia is five years into the development of the FGFA. In November 2007, India and Russia signed an Inter-Governmental Agreement on co-developing the fighter, but it has taken two more years to agree upon common specifications, work shares in development, and in resolving issues like Intellectual Property Rights (IPR).

The prototype that Sukhoi has built is tailored to Russian Air Force requirements. But the IAF has different specifications and the JV will cater for both air forces, producing two different, but closely related, aircraft. For example, Russia wants a single-seat fighter; the IAF, happy with the Su-30MKI, insists upon a twin-seat fighter with one pilot flying and the other handling the sensors, networks and weaponry.

Negotiations have resolved even this fundamental conflict. India has agreed to buy a mix of about 50 single-seat and 200 twin-seat aircraft. Russia, in turn, will consider buying more twin-seat aircraft to use as trainers. But even as both countries narrow their differences, fresh challenges lie ahead: preparing India’s nascent aerospace industry for the high-tech job of developing and manufacturing a fifth-generation fighter.

(This is the first of a two-part series on the IAF’s fifth-generation fighter)

(Part II: FGFA negotiating hardball: Russia says India brings little to the table)

http://www.business-standard.com/in...-close-to-pactnext-generation-fighter/381718/

 

[gogbot]

PLZ SEE HYPER LINK RE THE SU30MKI upgrade mk2

Defence Aviation - Su-30MKI to go stealthy

mk1 su30mki came with pesa radar and R77/727 BVR MISSLES

MK2 SU30MKI FROM 2014 will see PESA radars replaced with AESA IBRIS RADAR a new RAMJET bvr MISSLE 300KM RANGE and new reduction in RCS ram coating internal weapons bay and new smartskin electronics

You know the Internal Weapons bay goes right where they will put the Brahmos cruise Missile

i dont think it is standard.

It seems more like an option

 

[jupiter2007]

Nice PSD Job!

 

[gambit]

Sukhoi’s FGFA prototype, which is expected to make its first flight within weeks, is a true stealth aircraft, almost invisible to enemy radar. According to a defence ministry official, “It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metre as compared to the Su-30MKI’s RCS of about 20 square metres.”
[That means that while a Su-30MKI would be as visible to enemy radar as a metal object 5 metres X 4 metres in dimension, the FGFA’s radar signature would be just 1/40th of that.]

Relevant are the centimetric bands: X thru L, for military purposes. These freqs have been found to be the best compromise between target data, target data update rate and target data fine details. The millimetric freqs are too vulnerable to atmospheric attenuation (loss) in as short as 1 km distance and that is why they are usually reserved for proximity fuzing purposes. But the millimetric freqs are good for meteorological research because atmospheric conditions are desired data and this loss rate can be useful in inferring certain weather phenomenon. So keep in mind that in radar detection, nothing is really useless, but precisely because of the behaviors of these signals at different freqs over different distances upon different body dimensions influenced by target body materials that make radar engineering so difficult for detection and to avoid detection.

We detect birds more by their hard beaks than by their bodies, of which curves and feathers are natural RCS reduction methods thanks to Nature.

The F-22, operationally speaking, straddle the fence between bird and insect. Incidentally, insects and birds are quite similar in detectability thanks to the insect's hard bodies. In this case, target materials influences their detectability, like the bird's beak, even though the insect is usually much smaller than the bird.

A key strength of the 30-35 tonne FGFA would be data fusion; the myriad inputs from the fighter’s infrared, radar, and visual sensors would be electronically combined and fed to the pilots in easy-to-read form.

Data fusion and cockpit ergonomics have always been the Soviets/Russians weakness. This is a reflection of their centralized controlled mentality in that the less autonomy the pilot has over the mission, the less mental efforts required for him to do anything in the cockpit, so why bother with making his mission comfortable? It may sounds simplistics but upon close examination of the MIG-25 and later with the USAF's Constant Peg program, the truth is that the Russians are not very good at it. May be things are different now but this lack of understanding is heavily institutionalized and probably will require third party inputs, such as those in a collaborative efforts, to create a more refined fighter for the clients' needs. A pilot is a killer before being a pilot. The more the aircraft does his flying for him, make it easier for him to command certain actions and have those commands rapidly obeyed -- the better the killer is he.

 

[Red Dwarf]

We detect birds more by their hard beaks than by their bodies, of which curves and feathers are natural RCS reduction methods thanks to Nature.

May be we can create an aircraft incorporating those bird features....

 

[gambit]

May be we can create an aircraft incorporating those bird features....

For now we have curves, shown by the B-2, F-22 and the F-35. When, not if, we incorporate active RCS, we will be simulating the natural radar absorbency characteristics of feathers. Remember, the relevant bands are X thru L, centimetric, so the overlapping feather layerings are like channels that 'bounces' or redirects these centimeters lengths signals, much like how intake channels are not linear to hide the engines. Active RCS reduction will incorporate physical construction and electronics means.

 

[saurabh]

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=77816&d=1247020786


Doesn't this pic looks little like pak-fa??

 

[MZUBAIR]

SU-30 MKI cant become stealthy, even using the stealth body shield.
The airfram of SU-30 never suits it.

 

[saurabh]

I am just pointing out that some body had pics of a Russian plane with internal weapons bay, in air, long before PAKFA made its first flight.