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Featured India rejects China's suggestion of 'equidistant disengagement' from Finger area in eastern Ladakh

Salaam

I'm pretty knowledgeable of many things about China from their foreign policy and objective perspective. But this forum is not conducive to any constructive conversations around them, so I'll be as brief as possible in my answer.

Here are a few thoughts on the subject among US foreign and military policy think tanks. In no particular order

1. There is a serious conversation among US intelligence that thinks this action was done without Beijing's full knowledge. General Zhao Zongqi, who heads the Chinese Army's West Theatre Command, is a well-known hothead. It's has been a long-standing belief among US intelligence groups that the Chinese party heads don't have full control over their Generals i.e. Their military goes rogue at times - which, as you can imagine, is extremely dangerous.

A quick example of going rogue- US Sec of Defense under George W Bush, named Robert Gates, was on an official visit to China. It's an accepted protocol that when such a head comes to your country, you avoid military trials or showboat your military assets specifically made to attack that country (the US in this case). The Chinese general ordered a test of the J20 on that day Gates was visiting with the Chinese President. Robert Gates publically stated that the Chinese political leaders were taken by surprise when he informed of the test and seemed visibly flabbergasted.

2. Another possible reason for this is pretty straightforward. It's about China's venture in Doklam. That exchange with India was an outright embarrassing result for China. The Chinese have been sitting on a plan to try and humiliate India ever since. It's just how they are; they will push and prod till you pushback.

BUT it seems China did not imagine the kind of retaliation India has doled out. Sanctions, the complete tilt to the quad, the removal of Chinese investment and future in the Indian market, and of course, the potential loss of 100's of billions of dollars in future trade and all over an unhabitable strip of land. What India has done is just the tip of the iceberg; India is actively moving to divest from China & ultimately treat China as a trading partner similar to Pakistan.

What did they hope for as an outcome?
Ultimately, they had two end goals—one where India just walked away and did not wish to confront. Second, in the absence of the first, you saw what they just offered to India. Which was they will back off Indian territory as long as India also backs off and creates a buffer zone. Effectively, asking India to back off its land.

IMO, there is going to be inevitable Indian military retaliation eventually if they don't go back to the past agreements in place.

I hope you found my reply interesting and meaningful. :)

Thank you for giving a proper answer. This was the sort of answer and answers that I look and hope for when I open discussion threads. Please do share your views even if it feels most just prefer childish banter.

I personally have a different view of the CCP and I think they have planned this out to great extent. They have shown themselves to be good planners and have thus far been able to achieve a lot with good planning and execution.

To me it seems unlikely that they'd open a new front with India - especially given that they've been prepping that theater for an escalation with troops and training for few years now - without much wargaming.

Another issue that I find interesting is that the Chinese have not really been trying to much to de-escalate too much. They've been putting forth demands that the Indians find hard to accept.

It is possible, as you say that it was some 'rogue' elements of the military leadership that pushed China into this confrontation. However, it seems more like to me that they've probably planned this out at high level with some sort of objectives in mind.

Whether those objectives are directly India related or whether they are using this to achieve something on the international stage (or a mixture or the two and more), I don't know.

Anyways, here's a question, assuming your assessment is closer to the reality, how do you see this whole conflict moving forward?
 
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I thought they were occupying an entire state of yours or that's what the Chinese claim.
We have provinces not state. India is occupying a disputed area, which we had wanted to swap back in the 60s,but hey you guys wanna play hardball then eat some bullet. Lol
 
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It's really interesting and meaningful!
Brave Indian just go ahead and fight with China. We US will support you by mouth!
 
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Not sure if China will again back off like Doklam this time around or not?
 
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Lol. When? After Hindu Extremist PM Narendra Modi finishes preparing his next surrender statement?

Indian Humiliation Statement 2019
"Agar Rafale hota to yeh na hota."

Indian Surrender Statement 2020
"Na koi wahan hamari seema mein ghus aaya hai, na hi koi ghusa hua hai, na hi hamari koi post kisi dusre ke kabze mein hain."
Kabje main hain....

;)
 
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We have provinces not state. India is occupying a disputed area, which we had wanted to swap back in the 60s,but hey you guys wanna play hardball then eat some bullet. Lol
So they own an entire state since the 60s and you've been eating it since? I would not be talking about eating bullets when you have the shameful distinction of being a country that treats its dead soldiers as trash, by ignoring and hiding their deaths.
 
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A nationalist leader Modi is better than a completely pro-Western leader.Modi will at least consider the interests of Indians, and a pro-Western leader will use the dead of Indians for his own benefit.So we always keep a low profile on border issues to take care of Modi's domestic politics.

But the Indian military is clearly unwilling to obey Modi.Disagreement between the government and the military will only lead to one result, military defeat.I seem to see a repeat of 1962.
 
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Salaam



Thank you for giving a proper answer. This was the sort of answer and answers that I look and hope for when I open discussion threads. Please do share your views even if it feels most just prefer childish banter.

I personally have a different view of the CCP and I think they have planned this out to great extent. They have shown themselves to be good planners and have thus far been able to achieve a lot with good planning and execution.

To me it seems unlikely that they'd open a new front with India - especially given that they've been prepping that theater for an escalation with troops and training for few years now - without much wargaming.

Another issue that I find interesting is that the Chinese have not really been trying to much to de-escalate too much. They've been putting forth demands that the Indians find hard to accept.

It is possible, as you say that it was some 'rogue' elements of the military leadership that pushed China into this confrontation. However, it seems more like to me that they've probably planned this out at high level with some sort of objectives in mind.

Whether those objectives are directly India related or whether they are using this to achieve something on the international stage (or a mixture or the two and more), I don't know.

Anyways, here's a question, assuming your assessment is closer to the reality, how do you see this whole conflict moving forward?

I agree with you that they've been planning it for some time. The two schools of thought among in the US are - the General has been planning it unbeknownst to Politburo, or that they've prepared to do so with everyone's knowledge in response to Doklam. Either way, baffling, because if you look at the strip they've taken, there is no significant strategic advantage of such magnitude to risk the results they have seen so far, and more actions to come. In transactional terms, the ROI is not there.

How will it end?
I have a rather straightforward view. I don't see India giving up the land because it would be a complete capitulation to the Chinese to only invite similar actions from them in the future. That's precisely what the Chinese do; keep taking till pushed back.

There is a chance China will pull back. Look at the offers they are making and actions so far. They've pulled back in several positions, just not the lake. Yet at the lake, they offered to pull back if Inda pulled by an equal distance. That, of course, means, as India said, a pullback from their owned territory. And this is unacceptable to them.

SO, it means India prepares itself. First, keep trying to resolve this diplomatically through many many rounds of talks. And they do so patiently not so much for the apparent reasons only- but also to show the world that they tried, tried for an extended period and sincerely.

Why do they have such an approach at first? Well, in today's world, before you make a military response, you want to create a consensus or coalition at first. If the Chinese don't leave, India can justify taking military action and have the developed world support India (some through indirect military assistance, others in spirit).

BUT I firmly believe both countries will be careful not to allow the military action to spill over to other parts - They will keep it contained to the area.
 
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Giving out an obviously understated casualty number is worse than even no casualty number :enjoy: . Numerous sources have already pointed to 50+ Indian soldiers killed ... and yet your military still maintains 20. So it looks like some soldiers were "martyred" while others weren't even mentioned at all lmao. Must suck to be them.

This is as good a deal as they are gonna get I think. Not sure why they are rejecting it unless they think that U.S. pressure on the eastern seaboard will be advantageous for them.
 
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So they own an entire state since the 60s and you've been eating it since? I would not be talking about eating bullets when you have the shameful distinction of being a country that treats its dead soldiers as trash, by ignoring and hiding their deaths.
Well judging by history we went in to massacre some Indians and went back after logistical constraints and tried to offer a win win solution to India by keeping AK and exchanging AP, but the RATS CREPT BACK IN after the initial slaughter. Lol.

We do honour our heroes, do you want us to honor mannequins just to soothe your bruised ego. Come on, it's just 20killed and 60 captured. You can imagine you killed 100 or 200 and live in denial and feel proud. I now it hurts. Lol
 
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Well judging by history we went in to massacre some Indians and went back after logistical constraints and tried to offer a win win solution to India by keeping AK and exchanging AP, but the RATS CREPT BACK IN after the initial slaughter. Lol.

We do honour our heroes, do you want us to honor mannequins just to soothe your bruised ego. Come on, it's just 20killed and 60 captured. You can imagine you killed 100 or 200 and live in denial and feel proud. I now it hurts. Lol
We did not kill anyone, the Indians killed 40 of your guys per US reports, and you treated your dead as a national embarrassment. And then, you had the absurdity to think the world would buy it.

The Chinese instinct is to cover up and pretend it did not happen. That is your reputation, national character, and culture, isn't it Han? You often hide your death counts or obfuscate their numbers. Lie about viruses like SARS, COVID, etc. Lie when you starve 30 million to death, and about national calamities. Hell, you rush to cover up and censor any talk even when an entire city is blown off. Disrespecting sacrifices by ancestors, sacrifices of your soldiers is secondary to your nature.

Your net citizens on your internal social media were begging the government to allow the nation to be proud of its soldier's sacrifices and not hide it. But they could care less because, of course, you are China.
 
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We did not kill anyone, the Indians killed 40 of your guys per US reports, and you treated your dead as a national embarrassment. And then, you had the absurdity to think the world would buy it.

The Chinese instinct is to cover up and pretend it did not happen. That is your reputation, national character, and culture, isn't it Han? You often hide your death counts or obfuscate their numbers. Lie about viruses like SARS, COVID, etc. Lie when you starve 30 million to death, and about national calamities. Hell, you rush to cover up and censor any talk even when an entire city is blown off. Disrespecting sacrifices by ancestors, sacrifices of your soldiers is secondary to your nature.

Your net citizens on your internal social media were begging the government to allow the nation to be proud of its soldier's sacrifices and not hide it. But they could care less because, of course, you are China.

you sound exactly like the Indian who use US flag but was banned. What is your previous account name?
 
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