India provides money, targets to terrorists in Pak: Terrorist claims on video

[53fd]

STICK TO THE TOPIC PLEASE

Ok, no more discussion on other topics from me on this thread. I'm sorry, but I had to respond to Indians slandering Pakistan.

 

[harsh1488]

Myths perpetrated by the Indian media. Let me quote you some statistical evidence from all the past years.

India:

Pakistan:

Pakistan's poverty in 2008: 17.2%

India's poverty in 2000: 26.1% (from the graph)

India's poverty in 2004: 27.5% (from the link)

India's poverty in 2010 (after the economic boom): 37.2% (from the link)

Pakistan's poverty has gone down, India's poverty has gone up. India's poverty rate is twice of that of Pakistan.

100 million more Indians now living in poverty - The Economic Times

you are showing the poverty rates and i am showing the growing middle class rate so stop trying to show only one side of the coin

 

[StingRoy]

The issue lies in easy acceptance of foreign hands in one's internal problems. We have our own internal problems (aka Maoists) and although there were some misinformed blame on foreign hands in the supply and logistics, most of the state governments are dealing with the problem head on. Most states have adopted a two-pronged strategy: one being to tackle the proliferation of arms in the hands of maoists as an internal security issue to be dealt by the police and other being to look at the ground level development of these people.

Although the armed action is getting more coverage and probably reaching across the borders, the second aspect of tackling the issue almost never makes its way into the mainstream media.

Frankly I wasn't aware of how persistent the Baloch issue is until I moved to the US. Till I was in India, I was of the opinion that the Baloch insurgency was history, maybe because I got almost no news in the mainstream media. The key to tackle the Baloch issue also lies in the 2-pronged strategy that the govt needs to take. If you make sure that a region is prosperous, its people will be more than willing to compromise and live as one nation. But as long as the Balochs feel neglected and left out, their movement will continue and keeping blaming India will do the cause no good.

 

[American Pakistani]

The issue lies in easy acceptance of foreign hands in one's internal problems. We have our own internal problems (aka Maoists) and although there were some misinformed blame on foreign hands in the supply and logistics, most of the state governments are dealing with the problem head on. Most states have adopted a two-pronged strategy: one being to tackle the proliferation of arms in the hands of maoists as an internal security issue to be dealt by the police and other being to look at the ground level development of these people.

Although the armed action is getting more coverage and probably reaching across the borders, the second aspect of tackling the issue almost never makes its way into the mainstream media.

Frankly I wasn't aware of how persistent the Baloch issue is until I moved to the US. Till I was in India, I was of the opinion that the Baloch insurgency was history, maybe because I got almost no news in the mainstream media. The key to tackle the Baloch issue also lies in the 2-pronged strategy that the govt needs to take. If you make sure that a region is prosperous, its people will be more than willing to compromise and live as one nation. But as long as the Balochs feel neglected and left out, their movement will continue and keeping blaming India will do the cause no good.

It was history until 2001 came & India than got it's way to Afghanistan, not 100% sure about TTP terrorists, but BLA terrorists are fully sponsered,armed,funded by RAW in Afghanistan & it is recently proved after Wikileaks documents were divulged to public.

 

[StingRoy]

It was history until 2001 came & India than got it's way to Afghanistan, not 100% sure about TTP terrorists, but BLA terrorists are fully sponsered,armed,funded by RAW in Afghanistan & it is recently proved after Wikileaks documents were divulged to public.

Well to me it is a very similar issue as the Kashmir issue we are seeing. Till early 90s we thought we had moved over it. Everything was fine until cross border terrorism proliferated and the insurgency ensued. As you guys believe in case of Kashmiris, there is no smoke without fire, you also need to look back at the reasons behind the Baloch insurgency. I am willing to admit that our forces have been harsh on the people of Kashmir and also believe that given the right opportunities and right platform, people will be able to move on with their lives.

My point being that to tackle any such unrest, the issue needs to be understood with a cool head. Hear the Baloch people and include them in the mainstream of the economy and their hatred will melt away. Trying to blame India and link with conspiracy theories will only make the situation worse, not just for you, but for the Balochs also.

 

[EjazR]

You know that the Gilgit-Baltistan region is separate from Kashmir, right?

Wrong, only the GoP holds that view. The GoI as well as separatists in Kashmir valley like Geelani hold the Gilgit Baltistan region as part of the Jammu and Kashmir state. There have been historical and cultural links with Kargil-Ladakh region espicially onwards to Central Asia. Hence why sepratists in both Pakistan and Indian sides of J&K opposed GoP making Gilgit Baltistan a 5ht province in 2008. Before that the area was just held in legal limbo.

 

[53fd]

The issue lies in easy acceptance of foreign hands in one's internal problems. We have our own internal problems (aka Maoists) and although there were some misinformed blame on foreign hands in the supply and logistics, most of the state governments are dealing with the problem head on. Most states have adopted a two-pronged strategy: one being to tackle the proliferation of arms in the hands of maoists as an internal security issue to be dealt by the police and other being to look at the ground level development of these people.

Although the armed action is getting more coverage and probably reaching across the borders, the second aspect of tackling the issue almost never makes its way into the mainstream media.

Frankly I wasn't aware of how persistent the Baloch issue is until I moved to the US. Till I was in India, I was of the opinion that the Baloch insurgency was history, maybe because I got almost no news in the mainstream media. The key to tackle the Baloch issue also lies in the 2-pronged strategy that the govt needs to take. If you make sure that a region is prosperous, its people will be more than willing to compromise and live as one nation. But as long as the Balochs feel neglected and left out, their movement will continue and keeping blaming India will do the cause no good.

Balochistan has about 8 million people. It has about 3 million Balochis, the rest are all Pashtuns & other ethnicities. 3 million Balochis in Balochistan compared to Pakistan's total population of 175 million shows that there is no chance of Balochistan separating from Pakistan. In 1971, the population of Pakistan & Bangladesh was 'almost the same'. Besides, most of the Balochis still support Pakistan, it is the Marri & Bugti tribes that are always in conflict with one another in the thirst for power. A lot of Balochis have been inducted into the Army, Gwadar has jobs exclusively for Balochis. Infrastructure in Balochistan has improved drastically.

So frankly, you probably heard some Indian talking Balochistan to think how 'persistent' it is. In Pakistan, everyone knows that the terrorist groups such as the BLA, BLF blow up pipelines & all sources of development, but there is no issue of the people of Balochistan wanting to separate from Pakistan. Take this from someone who's been there many times, met with everyday Balochis & seen things 1st hand.

 

[American Pakistani]

Well to me it is a very similar issue as the Kashmir issue we are seeing. Till early 90s we thought we had moved over it. Everything was fine until cross border terrorism proliferated and the insurgency ensued. As you guys believe in case of Kashmiris, there is no smoke without fire, you also need to look back at the reasons behind the Baloch insurgency. I am willing to admit that our forces have been harsh on the people of Kashmir and also believe that given the right opportunities and right platform, people will be able to move on with their lives.

My point being that to tackle any such unrest, the issue needs to be understood with a cool head. Hear the Baloch people and include them in the mainstream of the economy and their hatred will melt away. Trying to blame India and link with conspiracy theories will only make the situation worse, not just for you, but for the Balochs also.

Well Kashmir issue & Balochistan issue is not similar from any angle, Kashmiris are fighting for Indepandance from 1947 whereas Balochs are working in every field of life here in Pakistan, yes many of them wants their provence to become developed & want more autonomy but there are just few guys who wants indepandance. Also keep in your mind that there is no military in Balochistan, just police & in some sensitive places there is paramilitary Rangers but no army, where as in Kashmir more than half of Indian army is stationed.

 

[53fd]

You know that the Gilgit-Baltistan region is separate from Kashmir, right?

Wrong, only the GoP holds that view. The GoI as well as separatists in Kashmir valley like Geelani hold the Gilgit Baltistan region as part of the Jammu and Kashmir state. There have been historical and cultural links with Kargil-Ladakh region espicially onwards to Central Asia. Hence why sepratists in both Pakistan and Indian sides of J&K opposed GoP making Gilgit Baltistan a 5ht province in 2008. Before that the area was just held in legal limbo.

There are no lingual, cultural links of the Gilgit-Baltistan area to the Kashmir region. Anyways, Gilgit-Baltistan has already become the 5th province of Pakistan, so there's nothing that can be done about it; it has its elected body & form of governance; while Azad Kashmir is an autonomous region. J&K is Indian occupied Kashmir & disputed territory, along with Azad Kashmir. And for your clarification, the people & authorities of Gilgit-Baltistan support the view of the Pakistan government as well.

 

[Ammyy]

It was history until 2001 came & India than got it's way to Afghanistan, not 100% sure about TTP terrorists, but BLA terrorists are fully sponsered,armed,funded by RAW in Afghanistan & it is recently proved after Wikileaks documents were divulged to public.

Your own media made those documents not wikileaks

I think you forget that they apologize for that

 

[StingRoy]

Balochistan has about 8 million people. It has about 3 million Balochis, the rest are all Pashtuns & other ethnicities. 3 million Balochis in Balochistan compared to Pakistan's total population of 175 million shows that there is no chance of Balochistan separating from Pakistan. In 1971, the population of Pakistan & Bangladesh was 'almost the same'. Besides, most of the Balochis still support Pakistan, it is the Marri & Bugti tribes that are always in conflict with one another in the thirst for power. A lot of Balochis have been inducted into the Army, Gwadar has jobs exclusively for Balochis. Infrastructure in Balochistan has improved drastically.

Then .. isn't that a good thing? You have far less people to bring prosperity and make sure it doesn't separate from Pakistan. From what I have read, the main reason of their dislike is that they blame the dominating Punjabis (no offense here) taking undue advantage of the resources and also taking most of the govt sector jobs in Balochistan. What you need is to be able to give the locals jobs at their local place. The moment people feel exploited, they will revolt.

So frankly, you probably heard some Indian talking Balochistan to think how 'persistent' it is. In Pakistan, everyone knows that the terrorist groups such as the BLA, BLF blow up pipelines & all sources of development, but there is no issue of the people of Balochistan wanting to separate from Pakistan. Take this from someone who's been to Balochistan many times, met with everyday Balochis & seen things first hand.

Not much from personal conversation, but rather from the media and people's forums (Baloch's settled in the US). Although the Baloch topic has come up in my circle of Pakistani friends a few times, but nothing that serious. I hope you are right on the money on your experience with the Baloch people, then you shouldn't be paranoid about them separating from you.

 

[53fd]

You know that the Gilgit-Baltistan region is separate from Kashmir, right?

Wrong, only the GoP holds that view. The GoI as well as separatists in Kashmir valley like Geelani hold the Gilgit Baltistan region as part of the Jammu and Kashmir state. There have been historical and cultural links with Kargil-Ladakh region espicially onwards to Central Asia. Hence why sepratists in both Pakistan and Indian sides of J&K opposed GoP making Gilgit Baltistan a 5ht province in 2008. Before that the area was just held in legal limbo.

Wrong. Gilgit-Baltistan is a predominantly Shia territory; & areas close to Hunza are Shia Ismaili territory, very liberal Muslims. The Sunni leadership of J&K doesn't want to lose its grip on Gilgit-Baltistan for that reason only. Read up on this issue more before commenting on it. You tell me, what lingual are there between Burushaski/Balti & the languages spoken in J&K? The people of J&K & Gilgit-Baltistan are ethnically different as well. They even look very different from the people of J&K, they have for the most part Mongolian like features, while people in J&K have a distinct Indian/Pakistani look to them.

 

[StingRoy]

Well Kashmir issue & Balochistan issue is not similar from any angle, Kashmiris are fighting for Indepandance from 1947 whereas Balochs are working in every field of life here in Pakistan, yes many of them wants their provence to become developed & want more autonomy but there are just few guys who wants indepandance. Also keep in your mind that there is no military in Balochistan, just police & in some sensitive places there is paramilitary Rangers but no army, where as in Kashmir more than half of Indian army is stationed.

Same is here in India buddy, a lot of Kashmiris are working in several positions in northern India, specially in and around Delhi and Chandigarh. In fact I also have a few in my extended friends circle who are in pretty good positions around the country. I am not trying to create a comparision here. The only reason why I am even discussin Kashmir, is because one of the Pakistani posters brought it into the thread. Let just leave it at that and focus on the topic here.

If you believe there is definite Indian involvement, I would like the GoP to provide the evidence to GoI and we will move on from there.

 

[American Pakistani]

Your own media made those documents not wikileaks

I think you forget that they apologize for that

 

[53fd]

Same is here in India buddy, a lot of Kashmiris are working in several positions in northern India, specially in and around Delhi and Chandigarh. In fact I also have a few in my extended friends circle who are in pretty good positions around the country. I am not trying to create a comparision here. The only reason why I am even discussin Kashmir, is because one of the Pakistani posters brought it into the thread. Let just leave it at that and focus on the topic here.

If you believe there is definite Indian involvement, I would like the GoP to provide the evidence to GoI and we will move on from there.

If the two issues are similar, then why are there 800,000 Indian troops deployed in Kashmir, while there is no Pakistani military in Balochistan?