India Pakistan Partition

[IND151]

And it was Muslims that the British snatched India away from so if anything they should have returned it to the rightful rulers.

Mughals were reduced to a small dynasty by Marathas when British took over

Marathas were the last power defeated by British.

Only after defeating Marathas, most India came under British rule.

Sikhs actually were fighting the Mughals,specifically against Aurangazeb for a long time. Also the mughals were already gone when Nader Shah marched in..infact the disaster time for Mughals started with Aurangzeb's ill fated 27 year war against the Marathas in Deccan. When Aurangzeb finally left deccan after that the Mughal empire was financially broke, the army devastated and the general morale completely taken a beating unable to subdue a guerilla force which had grown into a full blown army by then. Also the Marathas had planted their 'emissaries' in the Mughal court who for all intents and purposes were running the show.

Coming to the Third Battle of Panipat in which the Marathas were defeated by Abdali, contrary to the generally believed opinion, it by itself did not lead to their ultimate demise. The Marathas though routed in North West India, were still strong in West, Central and North India and it took the British to completely vanquish them in the series of Anglo Maratha wars,

please elaborate this

 

[ghilzai]

@Monkey D Luffy , not all ghilzais live Afghanistan, your knowledge is so weak that i pity you. I am here to defend pakistanis, unfortunately you see ethnicity in everything while i see pakistaniyat in everything.

I know what pukhtuniyat is, but unfortunately you don't, a true pushtoon is never racist or never attacks others because of their race and views.

I have offered to give you my address to come see me in pekhawar, come and meet me and your doubts will be cleared.

Sir you are a man of no substance as i said before you are dependant of the marhata slaves of ahmad shah abdali who wishes he was a pushtoon.

If you are man enough to come and meet me then fine, if not it proves you are a fake, a shamble, come meet me and you will get answers to all your questions.

Sir you have been rejected like your hero ghaffar khan by his people and now only hope left is to jump obviously the Indian band wagon.

Come meet me or shutup.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

@Monkey D Luffy , not all ghilzais live Afghanistan, your knowledge is so weak that i pity you. I am here to defend pakistanis, unfortunately you see ethnicity in everything while i see pakistaniyat in everything.

I know what pukhtuniyat is, but unfortunately you don't, a true pushtoon is never racist or never attacks others because of their race and views.

I have offered to give you my address to come see me in pekhawar, come and meet me and your doubts will be cleared.

Sir you are a man of no substance as i said before you are dependant of the marhata slaves of ahmad shah abdali who wishes he was a pushtoon.

If you are man enough to come and meet me then fine, if not it proves you are a fake, a shamble, come meet me and you will get answers to all your questions.

Sir you have been rejected like your hero ghaffar khan by his people and now only hope left is to jump obviously the Indian band wagon.

Come meet me or shutup.

Why not , give me your address and mobile number, will meet you when i would go to peshawer next time. And dont worry i am not going to beat the shyt out of you.

 

[haviZsultan]

@Monkey D Luffy , not all ghilzais live Afghanistan, your knowledge is so weak that i pity you. I am here to defend pakistanis, unfortunately you see ethnicity in everything while i see pakistaniyat in everything.

I know what pukhtuniyat is, but unfortunately you don't, a true pushtoon is never racist or never attacks others because of their race and views.

I have offered to give you my address to come see me in pekhawar, come and meet me and your doubts will be cleared.

Sir you are a man of no substance as i said before you are dependant of the marhata slaves of ahmad shah abdali who wishes he was a pushtoon.

If you are man enough to come and meet me then fine, if not it proves you are a fake, a shamble, come meet me and you will get answers to all your questions.

Sir you have been rejected like your hero ghaffar khan by his people and now only hope left is to jump obviously the Indian band wagon.

Come meet me or shutup.

I don't know if it would be any use or end up proving something. Afghan nationals have lived in Peshawar so long they now speak the local dialect and he could easily pass as one.

Plus we don't know who Luffy is working for so you would do well to hire a guard or even call police to arrest him when he arrives. People on the other forum said things like Peshawar has heera mandi culture, all lar Pashtuns are fake pashtuns and a guy named Soldat said when India attacked Pakistan Afghanistan should have done the same thing tearing Pakistan and another member Abbasina said every Pashtun traitor who says Pakistan zindabad should be killed. Luffy always supported these people either by staying quiet or backing them up so it would be good if you immediately call the police when Luffy arrives and hand him over to them. Then he can know how true Pashtuns treat Afghanistan-inspired NDS agents.

He has also been acting very belligerent lately, saying we settle things on the ground and this and that since people are refuting his rubbish and he may be in the stage a suicide bomber is in when he blows himself up, angry, frustrated, totally outraged. He has not had a single debate for the past month or so, just wherever Afghanistan is condemned he comes up to defend it.

His issue is why any single person here is loyal to Pakistan and why not Afghanistan. He might hate me but how I can let him promote this loy Afghanisan rubbish? I tried everything for him, opened up debate on ethnic issues with the first such thread ever made on this forum, offered to back Hyperion a Pashtun as think-tank, even stood against a very good think tank member Safriz so that maybe he reconsiders his stance if he really is a Marwat but he doesn't stop. Instead just because I have weak and contested Pashtun background and my entire family considers itself muhajir and despite going against its tradition and calling myself Pashtun he still always attacks me.

Even what he says is illogical even if he claims to be Pashtun first and Pakistani later. Weeks ago the truckers the Afghans (nation) killed were actually 2 Afridis from Khyber agency. Long before that there was an attack in Bajaur blamed to be by ANA that left over 100 people dead. Almost all of the dead on our side were Salarzai tribals and there were reports of rape as well.

So why he doesn't condemn Afghanistan's attack on Pakistani Pashtuns? Why is he always defending Afghanistan despite the fact that over 60-70% of the Afghan military is made up of Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks. These people can't think. They claim to be loyal to Pashtuns but their true homeland is Afghanistan and India as proven by how supportive he has been to the worst Indian trolls around. Their loyalty is not to Pashtuns in reality... it is to that nation-state called Afghanistan. The head of military, head of NDS, head of transport, head of water management... all these people in the Afghanistan cabinet are non-pashtuns.

What happened in the 1700's and before the British arrived was only and only because of Pakistani Pashtuns who make up 70-80% of all Pashtuns were part of it. If he doesn't believe me he can find the birthplace of two major Pashtun poets (Khushal Khan Khattak and Rehman Baba), Pir Roshan and even Durranis (Ahmed Shah baba), Suri's and Lodi's have origins in our Pakhtunkhwa (Multan/Attock/Mianwali too historically part of our Pakhtunkhwa). Pakhtunkhwa is the motherland of all Pashtuns and if they want to unite (I mean here lar aw bar both) we should under the flag of Pakistan but this does not come in their heads. They want to grab our land and steal our history and pass it off as theirs.

I focus so much on Pashtuns because I am trying to talk to him in his own tongue... explain to him that he is acting like a child. People think I focus too much on ethnicity myself but in reality I am trying to talk some sense into people like these who never seem to understand how bigoted they are.

Ghilzai my parents moved from lucknow and don't consider themselves Pashtuns. Those links to Pashtuns are very weak if existent and unproven. They call themselves Muhajirs. If you look at it its all very silly if you think about it. How some movement from one place to another can make anyone muhajir and now I am challenging that imposed identity. Its a stupid theory. But maybe these people's abuse of Pashtuns and looking down on them caused this and gave birth to people like Luffy because I saw abuse in offices and see it at home too. I can only apologize for it, @ghilzai.

I don't know how that would work because I openly call myself Pashtun though my retention of family links (we are Ansaris) makes my position tenuous and gives Luffy and others a chance to attack me saying I have a foot in two different places. I can abandon my last name and heritage though I don't want to because Muslim League was formed there and it is a valuable part of my history. But if that is cost of becoming accepted member of Pashtun society its no problem.

 

[INDIC]

@bronxbull we have plenty of institutionalized brainwashed pakistani pashtuns who have developed anti-hindu anti-sikh syndrome and say things without thinking much. Yet i dont get that vibe from ghilzai, at first he was not ready of speaking pashto with me, when he spoke 2-3 lines of pashto, they were gramatically incorrect and very broken, very similar to that wannabe havi sultan's pashto. He even doesnt know the meaning of basic term "pakhtuniyat", and is using it in wrong context. Moreover ghilzai is a tribe which entirely lives in Afghanistan, yet he claims to be pakistani ghilzai, with no further details about his sub-tribe, location etc...His very first post was to support havi sultan, very suspicious. All he is doing is to provoke indians here and there for no reason, its best to ignore such kid.
@ghilzai: Sikhs defeated pashtuns in Punjab, kashmir and present day KPK, they proved themeselves, they dont need your denial or approval for their achievements. And you dont need to defend punjabi musalmans, there are plenty of them here, more mature and responsible than you, they can defend themeselves.

This Havi Sultan sometime call himself a Pashtun, sometime Hyderabadi, sometime Bihari, sometime Lucknavi.

 

[KS]

please elaborate this

Maratha nobleman Sadashiv rao bhau was in the court of the Mughals extracting tributes and most of the time running the show in Delhi..

 

[Mav3rick]

After reading some of the very twisted history lessons you seem to be giving here, thats probably what your parents did when they gave birth to you

Going by your post, I can conclude that at least mine weren't retarded unlike yours which is apparent.

 

[alexx12lucyy]

Knowledge centre of the world with world's first university.

Home to various Dharmas (way of life and achieving eternity) and religions.

hiiiiiiiiiii

Knowledge centre of the world with world's first university.

Home to various Dharmas (way of life and achieving eternity) and religions.

 

[haviZsultan]

This Havi Sultan sometime call himself a Pashtun, sometime Hyderabadi, sometime Bihari, sometime Lucknavi.

Lucknow- Ancestral town. From Firangi Mahal. Most relatives in India there.
Hyderabad- some families but usually distant relatives, Delhi-some cousins of my father, Bihar-very distant relatives.
Pakistan (Karachi Islamabad Lahore): Relatives who moved from Lucknow or other parts after partition.

Being Pashtun is my choice as our family moved from lucknow. We may have weak links to Pashtun but they are unproven too.

A person who does not understand the demographic realities of Pakistan may not understand these things nor the heavy links a lot of migrant families continue to share with relatives in Lucknow. Its usually the younger generations that don't feel any link to these ancestral places. But the Ansari clan and my fathers family both are found in all these regions. As I said before I am still loyal to the Ansari clan.

I did not say I am from there. I said family members are from these parts and I have met these family members. Lucknow-yes I share a solid link to it and it was home to Muslim League once and our house hosted many leaders of the Muslim League. Lucknow rightfully belongs to Pakistan if you look at how it was the heartland of Muslim League and Jinnah and how Muslims there overwhelmingly voted for him 97 or 98% of the Muslim vote was it?

Pakistani children are fed with the pap that the whole South Asia was being ruled by the Muslims when Angraiz came and snatched it away from them, which is of course not true and it seems that the situation in India is also not much different. Some parts of South Asia were being ruled by Hindus and some by Muslims. For instance, Sikhs were the rulers of Punjab and some parts of Peshawar valley were also under their control; Balochs were reigning over Sindh whereas Balochistan and FATA were parts of Afghanistan. I am not well informed about India but rulers like Tipu Sultan and Sirajudaullah were Muslims, and so were the rulers of Awadh.

Actually Porus the vast majority of kingdoms and princely states were ruled by Muslims (I might add this leadership was disproportionate to the territory ruled by Hindu kings and maharajas) by the time the British arrived so that is these peoples source of misplaced pride. The last Hindu empire was that of the Marathas and they were probably the only real Hindu nation of substance since the 1200's when the region was constantly ruled by Muslim rulers on and off and even they (Marathas) faded away in 1761.

However a closer look will reveal that Hindu history goes far before Islamic history which is basically counted from the Prophets time around the 7th. Before the time Gupta's, Chola's, Palayas, Chanukyas and many other states ruled. Vijaynagar empire in fact was active during the time of Mughals but no one really knows about it as Muslims are taught Muslim history and Hindus hindu. Even relatives in what is now India complain of this pretty regularly, how Muslim history is brushed aside, but its been a norm.

That is what basically stops us from knowing much about the history of the other culture. It is sad but neither of us know about the other nor do we wish to. In a number of historical places like Agra and Delhi Mughal and other history related to Muslims is being obfuscated, to be replaced by Hindu version of events. In Pakistan 7th century temples are running into ruin. So its basically each religious group more keen to maintain his or her own identity.

 

[ghilzai]

Why not , give me your address and mobile number, will meet you when i would go to peshawer next time. And dont worry i am not going to beat the shyt out of you.

Beat me up ha ha ha ha a marwat a second class pushtoon ha ha ha vs a glorious ghilzai, the result is obvious a marwat will be begging for mercy.

Marwat what is your history, none is the answer a confused group that thinks its the lost tribe of Israel, ha ha ha biggest joke

When i come i to peshawar you say, that means no you wont be coming.

pm me and i will tell you where to come, and be ready to face the consequences and i promise to post images of the aftermath on this forum to show these people of your misery.

If you do come you will see how much love we have of afghans, a snake will very spared and afghan butchered.

I don't know if it would be any use or end up proving something. Afghan nationals have lived in Peshawar so long they now speak the local dialect and he could easily pass as one.

Plus we don't know who Luffy is working for so you would do well to hire a guard or even call police to arrest him when he arrives. People on the other forum said things like Peshawar has heera mandi culture, all lar Pashtuns are fake pashtuns and a guy named Soldat said when India attacked Pakistan Afghanistan should have done the same thing tearing Pakistan and another member Abbasina said every Pashtun traitor who says Pakistan zindabad should be killed. Luffy always supported these people either by staying quiet or backing them up so it would be good if you immediately call the police when Luffy arrives and hand him over to them. Then he can know how true Pashtuns treat Afghanistan-inspired NDS agents.

He has also been acting very belligerent lately, saying we settle things on the ground and this and that since people are refuting his rubbish and he may be in the stage a suicide bomber is in when he blows himself up, angry, frustrated, totally outraged. He has not had a single debate for the past month or so, just wherever Afghanistan is condemned he comes up to defend it.

His issue is why any single person here is loyal to Pakistan and why not Afghanistan. He might hate me but how I can let him promote this loy Afghanisan rubbish? I tried everything for him, opened up debate on ethnic issues with the first such thread ever made on this forum, offered to back Hyperion a Pashtun as think-tank, even stood against a very good think tank member Safriz so that maybe he reconsiders his stance if he really is a Marwat but he doesn't stop. Instead just because I have weak and contested Pashtun background and my entire family considers itself muhajir and despite going against its tradition and calling myself Pashtun he still always attacks me.

Even what he says is illogical even if he claims to be Pashtun first and Pakistani later. Weeks ago the truckers the Afghans (nation) killed were actually 2 Afridis from Khyber agency. Long before that there was an attack in Bajaur blamed to be by ANA that left over 100 people dead. Almost all of the dead on our side were Salarzai tribals and there were reports of rape as well.

So why he doesn't condemn Afghanistan's attack on Pakistani Pashtuns? Why is he always defending Afghanistan despite the fact that over 60-70% of the Afghan military is made up of Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks. These people can't think. They claim to be loyal to Pashtuns but their true homeland is Afghanistan and India as proven by how supportive he has been to the worst Indian trolls around. Their loyalty is not to Pashtuns in reality... it is to that nation-state called Afghanistan. The head of military, head of NDS, head of transport, head of water management... all these people in the Afghanistan cabinet are non-pashtuns.

What happened in the 1700's and before the British arrived was only and only because of Pakistani Pashtuns who make up 70-80% of all Pashtuns were part of it. If he doesn't believe me he can find the birthplace of two major Pashtun poets (Khushal Khan Khattak and Rehman Baba), Pir Roshan and even Durranis (Ahmed Shah baba), Suri's and Lodi's have origins in our Pakhtunkhwa (Multan/Attock/Mianwali too historically part of our Pakhtunkhwa). Pakhtunkhwa is the motherland of all Pashtuns and if they want to unite (I mean here lar aw bar both) we should under the flag of Pakistan but this does not come in their heads. They want to grab our land and steal our history and pass it off as theirs.

I focus so much on Pashtuns because I am trying to talk to him in his own tongue... explain to him that he is acting like a child. People think I focus too much on ethnicity myself but in reality I am trying to talk some sense into people like these who never seem to understand how bigoted they are.

Ghilzai my parents moved from lucknow and don't consider themselves Pashtuns. Those links to Pashtuns are very weak if existent and unproven. They call themselves Muhajirs. If you look at it its all very silly if you think about it. How some movement from one place to another can make anyone muhajir and now I am challenging that imposed identity. Its a stupid theory. But maybe these people's abuse of Pashtuns and looking down on them caused this and gave birth to people like Luffy because I saw abuse in offices and see it at home too. I can only apologize for it, @ghilzai.

I don't know how that would work because I openly call myself Pashtun though my retention of family links (we are Ansaris) makes my position tenuous and gives Luffy and others a chance to attack me saying I have a foot in two different places. I can abandon my last name and heritage though I don't want to because Muslim League was formed there and it is a valuable part of my history. But if that is cost of becoming accepted member of Pashtun society its no problem.

Sir you are more pushtoon then these traitors.

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Beat me up ha ha ha ha a marwat a second class pushtoon ha ha ha vs a glorious ghilzai, the result is obvious a marwat will be begging for mercy.

Marwat what is your history, none is the answer a confused group that thinks its the lost tribe of Israel, ha ha ha biggest joke

When i come i to peshawar you say, that means no you wont be coming.

pm me and i will tell you where to come, and be ready to face the consequences and i promise to post images of the aftermath on this forum to show these people of your misery.

If you do come you will see how much love we have of afghans, a snake will very spared and afghan butchered.



Sir you are more pushtoon then these traitors.

Glorious ghilzai? Second class marwat? Last time i checked marwat is a branch of ghilzai. What kind of mental ilness you are suffering from? And read my post again i did'nt give you any threat, but you are so nervous and afraid that you immediately assumed that i am gonna beat you. I have already said a nar pashtun dont boast on internet, you must have heard phrase "empty vessals make loudest sounds", you are making loud sounds, but you are empty inside, afraid and weak.
Come on man dont be scared, you cant back off now. Give me your mobile number and postal adress. I am not a resident of peshawer so i am gonna pay you a surprise visit whenever i get a chance, as unlike you i am busy man with a job. When i visit you , you dont have to do my melmastob, rather i would take you to any hotel where marwat's painda, our traditional food, is available.

 

[Icewolf]

I have already stated Monkey is a illegal Afghan.

He works as a trash picker, so guys please give him some mercy

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

This Havi Sultan sometime call himself a Pashtun, sometime Hyderabadi, sometime Bihari, sometime Lucknavi.

A confused man with severe identity crisis syndrome, he is all over the place. I actually feel sorry for him.

 

[Gandhi G in da house]

Lucknow- Ancestral town. From Firangi Mahal. Most relatives in India there.
Hyderabad- some families but usually distant relatives, Delhi-some cousins of my father, Bihar-very distant relatives.
Pakistan (Karachi Islamabad Lahore): Relatives who moved from Lucknow or other parts after partition.

Being Pashtun is my choice as our family moved from lucknow. We may have weak links to Pashtun but they are unproven too.

A person who does not understand the demographic realities of Pakistan may not understand these things nor the heavy links a lot of migrant families continue to share with relatives in Lucknow. Its usually the younger generations that don't feel any link to these ancestral places. But the Ansari clan and my fathers family both are found in all these regions. As I said before I am still loyal to the Ansari clan.

I did not say I am from there. I said family members are from these parts and I have met these family members. Lucknow-yes I share a solid link to it and it was home to Muslim League once and our house hosted many leaders of the Muslim League. Lucknow rightfully belongs to Pakistan if you look at how it was the heartland of Muslim League and Jinnah and how Muslims there overwhelmingly voted for him 97 or 98% of the Muslim vote was it?



Actually Porus the vast majority of kingdoms and princely states were ruled by Muslims (I might add this leadership was disproportionate to the territory ruled by Hindu kings and maharajas) by the time the British arrived so that is these peoples source of misplaced pride. The last Hindu empire was that of the Marathas and they were probably the only real Hindu nation of substance since the 1200's when the region was constantly ruled by Muslim rulers on and off and even they (Marathas) faded away in 1761.

However a closer look will reveal that Hindu history goes far before Islamic history which is basically counted from the Prophets time around the 7th. Before the time Gupta's, Chola's, Palayas, Chanukyas and many other states ruled. Vijaynagar empire in fact was active during the time of Mughals but no one really knows about it as Muslims are taught Muslim history and Hindus hindu. Even relatives in what is now India complain of this pretty regularly, how Muslim history is brushed aside, but its been a norm.

That is what basically stops us from knowing much about the history of the other culture. It is sad but neither of us know about the other nor do we wish to. In a number of historical places like Agra and Delhi Mughal and other history related to Muslims is being obfuscated, to be replaced by Hindu version of events. In Pakistan 7th century temples are running into ruin. So its basically each religious group more keen to maintain his or her own identity.

You've gotta be shitting me , Ask any Indian the names of the rulers of the Mughal empire and as him the names of the rulers of the Maratha , Sikh and Vijaynagar empire.

Our history books teach us much much more about Delhi Sultunate and Mughal empire than they teach us about Marathas and Sikhs and the Vijaynagar empire because Indian education policy is decided mostly by a bunch of lefties. You seem to belong to a weird family of whiners which is not happy with the way things are anywhere. No wonder you want to turn Pashtun now .10 years later you will be trying to turn Greek

 

[haviZsultan]

You've gotta be shitting me , Ask any Indian the names of the rulers of the Mughal empire and as him the names of the rulers of the Maratha , Sikh and Vijaynagar empire.

Our history books teach us much much more about Delhi Sultunate and Mughal empire than they teach us about Marathas and Sikhs and the Vijaynagar empire because Indian education policy is decided mostly by a bunch of lefties. You seem to belong to a weird family of whiners which is not happy with the way things are anywhere. No wonder you want to turn Pashtun now .10 years later you will be trying to turn Greek

As a Nationalist I refuse Canadian passport so there is no chance I will turn Greek. I am aware of the history taught of the Mughals but it is often through the lens of the majority community, not the minority unless the teacher happens to be a Muslim.

I believe both Muslims and Hindus are at fault here and both teach history through their own perspectives and religion always plays a role in these perceptions. Personally I do not have much of a stake in what happens to relatives in Lucknow or Hyderabad and the only thing we in Karachi can do to alleviate their suffering in case it has occurred is call them to Pakistan and even then getting them citizenship can make your head go spinning. What is needed here is objectivity and it is a quality recruiters should look for in each history teacher when hiring.

What I have suggested in this regard for the education commission of Pakistan is to give alternative views about history-especially since Sindhi Hindus (a fair 8.5% or more of the population of Sindh) are also existent in many parts of the province. For example I will take the case of Babur, who Hindus state is a murderer while Muslims claim is a conqueror.

Btw, to prove this I just typed two things-"Babur killer of Hindus" and "Babur great Muslim conqueror" to come up with a vastly differing array of results on google about Babur some painting him as a tolerant Muslim hero while others referring to him as a demon and murderer of Hindus. It strengthens my point nick. It is necessary for whatever history teacher is appointed at whatever level to remain objective and give the varying views of different communities. Also it would be pretty weird if you did not teach Mughal history with 160 Million Muslims (13%+ of the populace) in there. I do not remember reading about the Delhi Sultanate in the Indian school 5th grade textbook however.

Muslim history is gradually being wiped out in India in favor of the Hindu version of events and most of it has to do with being from a minority community. This is a truth and our family there has strongly felt it and even stated it while we were visiting places in Lucknow.

Also there are things that happened to our Hyderabad branch of family/relatives that would make anyone a so-called "whiner". A lot of those who were what you call whiners were moved. Those who weren't didn't have a choice. I would suggest you provide them with justice. In any case the breakdown of my links with them particularly because them being seen as pro-Pakistani opens them up to more attacks by RSS terrorists has taught me to look more at home (Pakistan) at how migrant families actually behaved after partition. I wish to merge into the Pashtun ethnic group and rectify certain mistakes those who moved made. This will be better only for you as I cannot defend the Ansaris and members from my fathers side eternally. The Muslims there have to take up the task but they are too meek and seem to have no wish to do so-is it really my responsibility to defend them? My requests for explanation on this point and the refusal of support from Pakistan by Muslims/family members left there have often fallen on deaf ears. @ajtr

I have already stated Monkey is a illegal Afghan.

He works as a trash picker, so guys please give him some mercy

I don't know if its allowed to feed the trolls... but Icewolf=best troll on the forum. Reminds me of the old PDF. By the way do join us someday at Naswar Corner. You are invited too @ghilzai. Its a fun thread in the members club.