India Outlines New Carrier Ambitions

[Agent_47]

The Indian Navy will present a report on the configuration options for the second indigenous Indian Aircraft Carrier (IAC-2) to the Ministry of Defense next month. At a recent seminar on the country’s naval aviation, it became clear that the vessel will likely be in the 65,000 ton class. It could be equipped with American aircraft – or a combination that might include the naval version of the French Rafale fighter. “The fighters must be transformational. We must decide on the aircraft first, and this choice must determine the design of the carrier and its deck,” said an official.
“We must plan for the future blue water navy that will be dependent on air power,” said former Chief of Naval Staff Arun Prakash. “A focus is required…new hardware is important (or) it will be a double jeopardy…we cannot remain hostage to an unreliable source of supply.” India’s navy now has two ski-jump carriers – the INS Vikramaditya which is a former Russian ship, and the INS Vikrant, which is the first indigenous carrier (IAC-1) and now in an advanced stage of construction. Both are equipped with Russian aircraft: Mig-29K combat jets and Kamov Ka-31 AEW helicopters.

The IAC-2 report will describe type, tonnage, propulsion and aircraft options, Chief of Navy Robin K Dhowan said. The options will include the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS), that recently was recently offered by the US to India, as an alternative to a steam catapult system. Made by General Atomics, EMALS was specified as one of six ‘Pathfinder Projects’ for coproduction and co-development, in the recent U.S.-India Defense Trade and Technology Initiative (DTTI).

Depending on the cost, India could consider acquiring F-18s or the F-35B for IAC-2, Ashley Tellis, senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said recently. With Indian having recently confirmed that the air force will acquire at least 36 Dassault Rafales, the carrier version of the French jet may come into consideration. The French Navy's flagship aircraft carrier Charles de Gaulle has just completed an exercise with the Indian navy off the coast of Goa. Last month, Indian navy officials also went aboard the USS Charles Vinson off the coast of Cochin, to “ask questions about the carrier,” US Ambassador to India Richard Verma who accompanied them, told AIN.

Meanwhile, the stage may finally be set for the Indian Navy to acquire a squadron of four Northrop Grumman E-2D Hawkeye AEW&C aircraft. The navy uses Kamov KA-31 for its AEW missions, but requires aircraft with a longer range and endurance. An RFI was issued as long ago as 2010, and Northrop Grumman has submitted a proposal for a shore-based version of the E-2D. Once the IAC-2 comes into operation, the aircraft could be modified for carrier operations in just one week, a US official told AIN. But retired Vice Admiral A.K. Singh suggested that an AEW version of the V-22 Osprey might be the answer. “The tried and tested Foreign Military Sales (FMS) route could be considered for an early realization of the Navy’s requirements,” said Ankur Gupta, Manager, Ernst &Young India to AIN.
India Outlines New Carrier Ambitions | Defense: Aviation International News

 

[Optimos Prime IA]

Wow what a config IAC 2 will have :

65,000 T- Flat deck carrier.Huge leap in the sense of overall capabilities of an Aircraft Carriers over Ski Jump deck. Which mean now Indian Navy will have most powerful naval air wing at least in Asia other than A/C of USN pacific fleet. With IAC 2 India will posses the capability to operate heavy fighter jets / fighter bombers / UCAV /Drones /Arial warning systems st any part of the world . Hence much capable aircrafts which can carry heavy weapons can be operated. Unlike ski jump which has its own limitations like the one India and China operates. More weapons means more firepower . Huge leap in Naval Aviation for India.


Aircraft delivery system:
EMALS or steam catapult .Most probably EMALS as in overall nature steam system in general need heavy maintenance , heavy material to withstand high pressure of steam generated , hazardous (dangerous due to high pressure involved) .So rather going for electro magnetic system will be compact , less maintenance, less hazardous compared with steam. And helps in carrying ever more equipments. So EMALS could be selected . Due the reasons above along with smaller size of the A/C .As US use Steam catapult system on 1lac T A/C where space are enormous .


Airwing : -

• Aircraft : Since this very carrier is aimed at satisfying IN growing requirements of the future Mig- 29 can be ruled out . In fact f18 may come in handy . Since the fighter supply line suffering for less orders . Most recently Kuwait has ordered some 24 f18 e/f which will keep supply line alive till 2019 . So India can push US for extreme bargain with full ToT for some 60-80 AC . Other than F18 - F35 and Rafale have very bright future in IN. Now since Rafale cost around 200 + million for total package and I guess Navy version might be bit higher due to amount of money and technology involved to make it carrier worthy so why not !IN might pic F35 with Vertical launch systems .so it also can be used on 4 huge landing dock high India as planned . Most probably 25000-40000 T with flat deck. And India operating 2 A/C which can make it more lethal with F35 . Full fifth generation fighter with future warfare capabilities and for 200 million it might be the choice of Indian Navy . ToT might be possible with 30% at least. US might help India to get hold of these jets as works to share technology already began during recent visit of Obama. All this will be possible unless Russians comes in with out of the box offer like Su35 Naval version .Due to heavy weaponry and range. Highly unlikely but possible .And Tejas MK2 under development which is undergoing some serious changes and requirements put up by Indian Navy . With mix of ac High Low configuration can be expected .Like for patrol duties heavy jets are just fuel guzzlers . With catapult systems it makes life easier for IN .

• AEW&C :

As this article mention its most probably E--2D Northrop Grumman corporation aircraft . As IN already interested in buying 4 or more for shore operation. Looks like US willing to convert them into carrier worthy in just 1 week or so . Hence this can be assured asset of IAC-2

• Helicopters : Now this where picture is not so clear . As article mentioned Ka--31 might go into IAC-2 .But most probably american one. And going by this article V-22 converted AWE version could be a game changer in Indian Naval aviation of this century. By doing so IAC-2 will posses then capability to transport troops in any conditions like marine operation , airdropping , weapon transport , general refiling of goods with in the A/C and much much more. As of now US had a plan to have whole new different aircraft for carrier operation specially for transportation. But they have finalized V-22 due to its speed and capacity .And very cost effective than small transport planes . So adding V-22 into IAC-2 inventory would be just dream run for IN.

• Propulsion : Most probably nuclear propulsion system. Marine diesel engine will be too expensive given the size of the vessel .And India always known for its conservative way of working as much as possible. Which is very cleaver thing to do . Hopefully Nuclear power generation will give navy some breather to chose between new EMALS and Steam system. And if so expected engine performance will be optimized version of INS Arihant SSBN which is supposed to be having 80-90 KW . But rumors roaming around for a while now that output could be more than 80+ KW .And anyway India already masters this nuclear technology so powerful nuclear propulsion system can be expected in IAC-2 . And IN insist on "BLUE WATER NAVY " capabilities for power projection. So its given .

• SAM system :

This will be indigenous system jointly developed with ISRAEL. LR-SAM under development for several years now so for sure this could get into IAC2 inventory .

• Battle Group :

Now this is where serious power projection comes in . Most probably SSN (under development) would the way to go.Along with Project 15B and Future stealth frigates could the back bone of the CBG .Each armed with LR-SAM ,brahmos NG , Nirbhay along with ASW helicopters these vessels can carry will project awsome Power Packed package .


Just WOOOOW Icing on the cake would be follow on orders in the midway itself .As once the hull work is done India can start new A/C construction .Which might be equal to Nimitz A/C with 1,00,000 T . Still only time will tell us what will be the future Naval Warfare and Advancement of missile technology . Which is stepping into hypersonic. But SAM systems aLSO evolving to be relevant . Lasers might replace SAM systems of the future .Beyond 2030 will be unimaginable for us to predict .

 

[migflug]

The US is offering to help build a nuclear-powered aircraft carrier with fifth generation fighters for India, which would transform its military profile in the Indian Ocean Region. This is the biggest and most audacious offer of military cooperation by the US to India so far, and the clearest indication that Washington DC wants defence technology and trade as the principal driver of the relationship with New Delhi.

The contours of the seemingly modest American offer to provide for India's new aircraft carrier a futuristic Electro Magnetic (aircraft) Launch System (EMALS), made during the visit of President Barack Obama to India in January, is now beginning to unfold in its entirety: the "eco-system" for the power guzzling EMALS catapult involves nuclear propulsion, the futuristic F-35 carrier-borne fighters and weapons, and airborne early warning aircraft like the Hawk Eye, together worth tens of billions of dollars.

The two sides have set up a joint working group to discuss the offer, which has EMALS on its calling card. They will actually explore the joint development of India's next-generation aircraft carrier. Leading the two sides in the group will be Rear Admirals Surendra Ahuja and Thomas Moore, respectively.

An EMALS Catapult Assisted Take-Off But Arrested Recovery (CATOBAR) enables the launch at sea of heavier and more powerful, longer-range aircraft from the deck of a larger carrier with less wear and tear to the aircraft than in a steam catapult system. It's also able to launch lighter Unmanned Combat Aerial Vehicles (UCAVs), which earlier systems often cannot. India has so far operated smaller carriers with a ski-jump-assisted take-off, which can launch only smaller fighters with a limited reach. An EMALS-equipped carrier would mark a quantum capability leap for India.

The strategic justification of the offer is that this collaboration "would resonate throughout the Asian continent to India's strategic advantage" in the light of rapid Chinese inroads into the Indian Ocean Region.

"Helping India's military build-up in the Indian Ocean Region is in US interest," leading Indian-origin American strategist Ashley Tellis told The Sunday Guardian. Tellis, who has served in several key positions in the US administration, including that of adviser to the US President, believes that the Chinese threat in the Indian Ocean is real, that Indian and US interests overlap in the context of this "threat", and that the two should thus help each other.

"The prospect of a major Chinese naval presence in the Indian Ocean transforms India's hitherto secure rear into a springboard from which coercive power can be brought to bear against the Indian landmass," notes Tellis in his paper, "Making Waves: Aiding India's Next Generation Aircraft Carrier", calling for closer defence ties between DC and New Delhi.

In this recently published paper by the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace, Tellis argues that the "principal objective underlying bilateral cooperation should be to ensure that India's next-generation aircraft carrier — to include its air wing and its capacity for combat operations — will be superior to its Chinese counterparts".

The US is pulling out all the stops to push carrier cooperation as the next big thing. On 1 May, the commander of the US Naval Air Force in the Pacific Fleet and Super Hornet fighter pilot, Vice-Admiral Mike Shoemaker spoke at an Indian Navy seminar in New Delhi, underlining the centrality of carriers in naval warfare in the foreseeable future. At the same seminar, Scott Forney of US' General Atomics, which has developed EMALS, explained how this technology will give an edge to future carriers.

"The US can make a huge statement by helping build India's aircraft carrier. This will have a major demonstration effect," Tellis told The Sunday Guardian, indicating that this could become the most visible symbol of India-US military cooperation. "Chinese carriers will have 4+ generation fighters. It's in India's interest to have fifth generation fighters, and the best is the F-35," he hard-sells.

India's next-generation carrier, tentatively named Vishal, is yet in the conceptual stage. Top-level sources in the Indian Navy indicate that the concept is likely to be frozen around a 65,000-ton carrier capable of launching heavier fighter aircraft, airborne early warning planes and unmanned combat aerial vehicles (UCAVs) with CATOBAR launch and recovery.

"We want the carrier designed around the air wing. The fighters must be transformational. We must decide on the aircraft first, and this choice must determine the design of the carrier and its deck. So far, our choice of aircraft has been dictated by which carrier has been available to us. For instance, the Russians reconfigured the MiG-29 for deck landing after India committed to buying the Gorshkov (now INS Vikramaditya)," explained a senior officer. There's no unanimity yet on the propulsion system — nuclear or conventional.

The choice of the "transformational" fighter aircraft may be a difficult one: India has already invested in Russia's Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft (FGFA), but it doesn't have a naval version yet, principally because Russia does not operate a catapult carrier (needed to launch heavier fighters). The only fifth generation carrier-borne fighter, now nearing completion, is the American F-35.

In order to make the EMALS offer viable, the US will have to make an exception for India to allow transfer of nuclear propulsion technology. EMALS is a power hungry system, the first of which is being installed on the American carrier Gerald Ford.

So far, the US has not provided nuclear propulsion technology to any country other than the UK, its closest ally. Some experts are sceptical on whether the US will walk the talk on an issue involving military nuclear cooperation with India. But others like Tellis are hopeful that the US will do so in its own interest, particularly when there are no proliferation issues involved with a carrier reactor.

A nuclear powered aircraft carrier would be a huge leapfrog for the Indian Navy, which at the moment operates far more modest, conventionally-powered carriers of 45,000 ton and 29,000-ton displacement respectively. The first indigenously made carrier, Vikrant, will displace less than 40,000 tons when it's ready for service in 2018.

But experts reckon that a nuclear-powered super carrier for India is not a pipe dream. "Even India's nuclear submarine project goes back over 30 years. It's finally close to reality today. Such projects typically have a long lead time," says well-known strategic affairs commentator Commodore Uday Bhaskar, who strongly supports a powerful naval profile for India.

"If the Americans can enable the process, it should be accepted in India's larger national interest," he infers. "If India does not take urgent steps to augment its navy, its influence in the Indian Ocean Region will shrink," reasons Bhaskar.

Should this audacious offer gather steam, there could be an inevitable geopolitical fallout: China could infer hostility, step up arming of Pakistan and start trade wars. Traditional defence supplier Russia too could cool off. While there's no defined common security vision or alignment of interests with the US, India may end up being acknowledged as the "lynchpin of the US pivot to Asia". That would pose a new challenge to India's foreign and military establishments.

Catobar!!

 

[Srinivas]

We should think of logistic nightmares since we are going for many types of aircraft.

F35 is a good option considering this is the latest 5th gen fighter aircraft.

We should also standardize our aircraft carrier design so that we can build more of them with out much of the design change.

We should go for more tonnage.

 

[HariPrasad]

We need 65000 Nuclear powered aircraft career with 1000 KM range hypersonic brahmos and excellent EW with something like tejas Mk2, Rafale and Mig 29 on board with Agies type system , MR SAM and Maitri with electromagnetism catapult.

 

[anant_s]

Depending on the cost, India could consider acquiring F-18s or the F-35B for IAC-2

F 35B will be a good choice especially against Naval versions of J-20 as and when they are fielded.
& even though nothing concrete can be said, the report makes sense with US involvement on a large scale (launch systems, Fighters, AWACS and possibly CIWS).
& as i wrote in some other thread yesterday, it looks Navy has a proposal of N propulsion option for its review.
But to put IAC 2 for testing by 2023/24, work must begin immediately after IAC 1 is launched with necessary budget released.

 

[anonymus]

Aircraft : Now since Rafale cost around 200 + million for total package and I guess Navy version might be bit higher due to amount of money and technology involved to make it carrier worthy so why not !IN might pic F35 with Vertical launch systems .so it also can be used on 4 huge landing dock high India as planned . Most probably 25000-40000 T with flat deck. And India operating 2 A/C which can make it more lethal with F35 .

Aircraft with Vertical landing capacity is F-35B, and the conventional Carrier based Aircraft is F-35C.

In my opinion, F-35B would be costlier, less capable, and a bigger maintenance whore than F-35C.

If IN wanted F-35B, it would have not sought EMALS as F-35B is fully capable of flying from both Vikramaditya and IAC1. In addition to that , IN has sought info about F-35C from LM, not F-35B (though LM has supplied it); and given the experience of IN with STOVL aorcrafts, it is unlikely that IN would go for F-35B.

F 35B will be a good choice especially against Naval versions of J-20 as and when they are fielded.
& even though nothing concrete can be said, the report makes sense with US involvement on a large scale (launch systems, Fighters, AWACS and possibly CIWS).
& as i wrote in some other thread yesterday, it looks Navy has a proposal of N propulsion option for its review.
But to put IAC 2 for testing by 2023/24, work must begin immediately after IAC 1 is launched with necessary budget released.

It is F-35C.

IN would not be considering EMALS for F-35B. It is a STOVL Aircraft, and even our IAC1 is more than enough for it.

All this will be possible unless Russians comes in with out of the box offer like Su35 Naval version .Due to heavy weaponry and range. Highly unlikely but possible

Heavy Aircrafts like Su-35 are not suitable for carrier operations. They have to fly with less fuel, hence limitation of range. They occupy more space, hence less Aircrafts are onboard. This decreases usefulness of carriers.

 

[cirr]

Unfortunately none of the main systems considered will be made in or by India。

It will take India at least 30 years to start making the major building blocks of a modern CV on its own hook。

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Unfortunately none of the main systems considered will be made in or by India。

It will take India at least 30 years to start making the major building blocks of a modern CV on its own hook。

Well india already designed and building AC, so come and talk when you make your own.

 

[anant_s]

It is F-35C.

My Bad!

I guess in distant future (2030-35), IN would be operating upto 5 CBGs and therefore the demand for fixed wing aircraft on-board would be close to 150. This number will consist of a mix of MiG 29K, N LCA and F 35C or N Rafale.
So Costs permitting 2-3 squadrons of F 35C would be a massive capability addition to IN.

 

[Lostsoldier]

Unfortunately none of the main systems considered will be made in or by India。

It will take India at least 30 years to start making the major building blocks of a modern CV on its own hook。

Atleast we can buy em.Opps sorry that hurts. You can't afford it.One Ac costs more than pakistan defence budget.

 

[koushik]

Unfortunately none of the main systems considered will be made in or by India。

It will take India at least 30 years to start making the major building blocks of a modern CV on its own hook。

INS Vikrant is a brilliant example to negate your claims.!!
Oh btw,
CV = Carrier Vessel and not Casino Varyag

 

[anant_s]

In order to make the EMALS offer viable, the US will have to make an exception for India to allow transfer of nuclear propulsion technology. EMALS is a power hungry system, the first of which is being installed on the American carrier Gerald Ford.

I'm not sure US would allow direct transfer of such a technology (i mean ready made systems). Instead (if situations allows), US experts will help in configuring an Indian NSSS (Nuclear Steam Supply system) and marrying it with propulsion system perhaps helping in fine tuning controls. This NSSS can be an enlarged version of one used on INS Arihant and may be rated at 130-150 MW, with 2 or more units operating.

 

[Viva India]

Why is Navy considering Dead F 18s which was rejected in MMRCA,F 35 and Rafale would be better option along with Tejas N.

 

[anonymus]

Why is Navy considering Dead F 18s which was rejected in MMRCA,F 35 and Rafale would be better option along with Tejas N.

Cost.

With F-35's , total cost of Aircraft carrier with its airwing would touch $30 Billion.

I'm not sure US would allow direct transfer of such a technology (i mean ready made systems). Instead (if situations allows), US experts will help in configuring an Indian NSSS (Nuclear Steam Supply system) and marrying it with propulsion system perhaps helping in fine tuning controls. This NSSS can be an enlarged version of one used on INS Arihant and may be rated at 130-150 MW, with 2 or more units operating.
View attachment 219516

I think the Reactor design would be different. Since Reactor has to generate electricity for EMALS, why install a secondary steam propulsion system. I think propulsion too would be electricity driven.