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India Must Make Peace With Pakistan to Stop Terrorism

Are you saying that Asif K. was on Indian Payroll?

and how am i supposed to comment on that when no serious investigation took place?
And how Asif was named for same if no investigation took place? Why not GoP provide with counter showing the Asif was not involved. Its there national US and UN are targeting. What stops GoP to demand evidence for same and counter that.
Not only US charged so, UN accepted the charges. Do you mean even UN is wrong? Pls chk the original press release regarding UN.

US says and UN does it. wats the big deal about that.

We all know how difficult it was for India to get PK based org banned by UN because of China. Than why it went through?

to let some diplomatic pressure off us. imagine if we had stopped UN from banning JuD?
I was referring to ban on Asif. Why China allowed that. There was no pressure at time.
Pls don't ignore that. You are equating 2 incident. One where PK citizen(s) are charged and convicted for terrorism causing death f IN & PK citizen. Other incidence involved 10 PK citizens involved in terrorism causing death of IN citizens and ppl from other nationalties.
IN is asking to act against the terror infra targeted at IN. This is not in your priority list. So IN has droped CD from is priority list.
Its not the act but the will to not allowing those perpetrating these act that has stalled the dialogue.


no serious investigation took place to find the reality behind sumjhota attacks. ur police had said that the bags in which explosives were hidden, were bought in the indian city indore. and suspects had been seen at the Indian station. if leT is involved, how did they bought the bags in India and then placed the explosive filled bags on the train in an Indian train station under all the Indian security apparatus? so to me it was an attack on pakistanis in india in which pakistanis died. in mumbai attack indians and few other foreign national died. how is it any different? do u expect me to give more weightage to a life of US citizen?

When we found products from PK with 26/11 terrorist, PK members laughed and said "Do you think our guys are so fool"? Now when IN products are found you say that its IN citizen that involved.

And buying bags and all, do you mean we are not infected by LeT? Why this can't be there agent?
And you also know how many Train Bombing has happened in India. Why you are making fuss about Indian Security Apparatus when you know that. And again GoP being part of UN can ask for evidence and prove that Asif was not the one.This has not happened. So please don't raise the boggy of Lt. Col. Purohit. First prove that your citizen is targeted wrongly. Or enen that he is not part of Samjhota exp blast. Diplomaticaly this will bring pressure on IN and give PK and edge. Why waste this opportunity.
And you have ignored what I wrote in last-
Its not the act but the will to not allowing those perpetrating these act that has stalled the dialogue.
 
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so? if samjhota express did not put an end to composite talks then why should mumbai?

For Mumbai incident, India provided proofs of Pakistani citizen’s involvement which was accepted by Pakistan Govt.

But in case of Samjhota, what kind of proof you have to make a case against anybody. What you are claiming is all hearsay, with no concrete evidence. More over if Pakistani can come to India then what is going to stop him to buy bags in Indore or any other place?

Here you are trying to compare two incidences, one which has been proved to a credible level and Pakistan involvement established and another which has no evidence.

India had reasons to stall the composite dialogue based on concrete evidences but what evidence Pakistan had so that it could have even considered stalling composite dialogue.
 
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For Mumbai incident, India provided proofs of Pakistani citizen’s involvement which was accepted by Pakistan Govt.

But in case of Samjhota, what kind of proof you have to make a case against anybody. What you are claiming is all hearsay, with no concrete evidence. More over if Pakistani can come to India then what is going to stop him to buy bags in Indore or any other place?

Here you are trying to compare two incidences, one which has been proved to a credible level and Pakistan involvement established and another which has no evidence.

India had reasons to stall the composite dialogue based on concrete evidences but what evidence Pakistan had so that it could have even considered stalling composite dialogue.

Really childish comment. It is India's job to provide proof for who was involved. I believe it's a well established fact that there were Hindu terrorists behind those attacks. Now Indian government might be avoiding this due to political reasons. US saying something else means little as Indian government has said nothing about what US did nor did US government use any feedback from indian government on that particular attack.
 
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Making peace before ending terrorism or terrorists continuing their activities to achieve their goals ..Either way, the terrorists win..
From Pakistans POV, peace is possible only when their demands/objectives are met. The terrorists and Pakistans demands/objectives vis-a-vis India, more or less coincide. By saying terrorism will end only when peace previals between India and Pakistan, is acceding to the terrorists demands, directly or indirectly.
The only option left for India is to crush these terrorists and solve the Indo-pak problems on Indias terms.
 
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Really childish comment. It is India's job to provide proof for who was involved. I believe it's a well established fact that there were Hindu terrorists behind those attacks. Now Indian government might be avoiding this due to political reasons. US saying something else means little as Indian government has said nothing about what US did nor did US government use any feedback from indian government on that particular attack.

Pls provide the fact you are reffering to.
For India provising proof, lets not get there. We all know whats happening with info provided with 26/11.
As for our fact, you have accepted the UN directive. Its your national that UN targeted. If you had doubts, it was much easier for you to challenge that. To get your citizen name cleared. You have not done so. You have accepted the UN directive. Why?
First prove that its your citizen is not involved.
 
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You are diverting from the topic very clearly. All these indians are saying we don't know who carried out Samjhota attacks. That's the responsibility of Indian government to provide. And they are brushing that attack under the carpet as it's not in their interests to do otherwise. If there were Pakistanis involved, I bet we would have heard that several time from GoI by now.
 
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at least we did not put an end to composite dialogue after samjhota express. and that is wat india should have done. but upto u. its not just we who are getting effected.

Samjhota express blast was on a 'Indian Train on Indian soil'. Yes, some Pakistani citizens died in it with lot of Indian citizens. Thats too bad for all people who died and their family and friends.
The thing is, its Indias internal law and order problem and GoI has taken the necessary steps to bring the perpetrors of this henious crime to book.
 
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Samjhota express blast was on a 'Indian Train on Indian soil'. Yes, some Pakistani citizens died in it with lot of Indian citizens. Thats too bad for all people who died and their family and friends.
The thing is, its Indias internal law and order problem and GoI has taken the necessary steps to bring the perpetrors of this henious crime to book.

ya you are right man! its a internal problem of GoI, no Indians cross the border and killed any citizen of any other nation:toast_sign: it is our INTERNAL MATTERS YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS TO ASK US!:devil:
 
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www.outlookindia.com | The Mysterious Case Of Arif Qasmani

US Treasury Department notification shows (1) he received money from Dawood Ibrahim for the July 2006 bombings in Mumbai; (2) he provided financial and logistics support to Al Qaeda and its leaders; and (3) he provided safehaven to the leaders of the Afghan Taliban.

B. RAMAN

In a press note issued on July 1, 2009, the US Department of Treasury gave the personal particulars of four persons-- a Pashtun born in Afghanistan, two Punjabis and a fourth person of unclear ethnicity originating from Karachi--associated with the Lashkare-Toiba (LET),who were designated by the Department under Executive Order 13224 "as providing direct support to Al Qaeda and the LET and as facilitating terrorist attacks, including the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai."

The four persons so designated by the Treasury Department are:

(a) Fazeel-A-Tul Shaykh Abu Mohammed Ameen Al-Peshawari born in the Konar Province of Afghanisan and living in Peshawar.

(b) Arif Qasmani, a Pakistani national from Karachi.

(c) Mohammed Yahya Mujahid, a Pakistani national from Lahore.

(d) Nasir Javaid, a Pakistani national from Gujranwala, Punjab, living in Manshera, NWFP.

The Treasury Department's notification does not specifically refer to Fazeel-A-Tul Shaykh Abu Mohammed Ameen Al-Peshawari (Ameen al-Peshawari) as an associate or an office-bearer of the LET. However, it says of him as follows:

"He was providing assistance, including funding and recruits, to the al Qaida network. He has also provided funding and other resources to the Taliban, including explosive vests and other resources and actively facilitated the activities of anti-Coalition militants operating in Afghanistan by raising money in support of terrorist activities. In addition, he had begun a campaign to support militants in Pakistan. As of 2007, Ameen al-Peshawari was responsible for recruiting fighters and suicide bombers and for the acquisition of funds and equipment for militants in Afghanistan. Ameen al-Peshawari has also provided monetary compensation to families of fighters killed in Afghanistan and has been involved in anti-Coalition militia recruiting activities."

All the activities of Abu Mohammed al-Peshawari referred to in the notification relate to Afghanistan. No activities of his in relation to India have been cited.

However, Arif Qasmani of Karachi has been specifically named by the notification as involved in the Mumbai suburban train blasts of July, 2006, and in the Samjhauta Express blast of February, 2007. It says of him as follows:

"Arif Qasmani is the chief coordinator for Lashkar-e Tayyiba's (LET) dealings with outside organizations and has provided significant support for LET terrorist operations. Qasmani has worked with LET to facilitate terrorist attacks, including the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjhauta Express bombing in Panipat, India. Qasmani conducted fundraising activities on behalf of LET in 2005 and utilized money that he received from Dawood Ibrahim, an Indian crime figure and terrorist supporter, to facilitate the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India. Since 2001, Arif Qasmani has also provided financial and other support and services to al Qaida, including facilitating the movement of al Qaida leaders and personnel in and out of Afghanistan, the return of foreign fighters to their respective countries, and the provision of supplies and weapons. In return for Qasmani's support, al Qaida provided Qasmani with operatives to support the July 2006 train bombing in Mumbai, India, and the February 2007 Samjota Express bombing in Panipat, India. In 2005, Qasmani provided Taliban leaders with a safe haven and a means to smuggle personnel, equipment, and weapons into Afghanistan."

From the notification, three significant points about Qasmani emerge: First, he received money from Dawood Ibrahim for the July 2006 bombings in Mumbai; second, he provided financial and logistics support to Al Qaeda and its leaders; and third, he provided safehaven to the leaders of the Afghan Taliban.

According to the notification, "Mohammed Yahya Mujahid is the head of the LET media department and has served as an LET media spokesman since at least mid-2001. In that capacity, Mujahid has issued statements to the press on behalf of LET on numerous occasions, including after the December 2001 LET attacks on the Indian Parliament, and following the November 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India. Mujahid's statements on behalf of LET have been reported by international news sources such as BBC News, the New York Times, the International Herald Tribune, and Asia Times Online. As of late 2007, Mujahid was influential among the LET central leadership."

The notification says that "Nasir Javaid is an LET official involved in LET operations and has served as an LET commander in Pakistan. From 2001 to at least 2008, Nasir Javaid was also involved in LET military training. In mid-2001, Javaid assumed command of an LET training center in Pakistan."

The notification does not specify whether the evidence against the four designated individuals cited in it was collected by the US intelligence or whether some of it came from India too. Some inputs from India are likely.

Earlier on June 29,2009,the Department of Public Information of the UN Security Council had announced as follows: " The Al-Qaida and Taliban Sanctions Committee approved the addition of three entries to its Consolidated List of individuals and entities subject to the assets freeze, travel ban and arms embargo set out in paragraph 1 of Security Council resolution 1822 (2008) adopted under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations."

The three names added by the UN Committee to its list are those of Abu Mohammad Ameen al-Peshawari, Arif Qasmani and Mohammad Yahya Mujahid. The name of Nasir Javaid does not figure in the list issued by the UN Committee possibly because there is no evidence of his involvement with Al Qada and/or the Afghan Taliban. The evidence against the three persons cited in the notification of the UN Committee is the same as subsequently cited by the US Treasury Department.

The UN Committee notification has one additional detail which is not there in the Treasury Department notification -- namely, all the three persons were in custody as of June,2009. While it does not mention where they were in custody, it must be in Pakistan. It also does not say when they were arrested.

However, in a report on the Mumbai terrorist attack of November,2008, carried by "Asia Times Online" on December 2,2008,Syed Saleem Shahzad, its Special Correspondent in Pakistan, had indicated that Arif Qasmani, whom he described as a millionaire businessman of Karachi, was already in detention in Pakistan because of the ISI's anger over the double role allegedly played by him-- namely, assisting the ISI in its operations in India through the LET and at the same time assisting the Pakistani Taliban in its operations against the Pakistan Army.

Shahzad reported as follows:

"The most important asset of the ISI, the Laskhar-e-Taiba (LET), was split after 9/11. Several of its top-ranking commanders and office bearers joined hands with al-Qaeda militants. A millionaire Karachi-based businessman, Arif Qasmani, who was a major donor for ISI-sponsored LET operations in India, was arrested for playing a double game - he was accused of working with the ISI while also sending money to Pakistan's South Waziristan tribal area for the purchase of arms and ammunition for al-Qaeda militants."

Shahzad did not mention when Qasmani was arrested, but from the wording of his article it appeared that he must have been arrested before the 26/11 Mumbai strike. Earlier, the "Dawn" of Karachi had reported on December 29,2005, as follows:

"The Sindh High Court asked the federal interior secretary on Wednesday to file, within 10 days, a rejoinder to a petition alleging that a man was being detained by a federal law enforcement agency unlawfully. Petitioner Javeria Arif submitted through Advocate Nihal Hashmi that her husband, Arif Qasmani, was picked up by law enforcement personnel from his KDA Scheme residence on Nov 29 for his suspected links with Al Qaeda and Taliban. No case was registered against him, nor was he produced before a magistrate for remand. The police were informed but was of no help to her. An additional advocate-general informed a division bench, comprising Justices Mushir Alam and Athar Saeed, that the provincial government had nothing to do with the matter but he required more time to make a formal statement on behalf of the police. Adjourning further hearing to Jan 19, the bench expressed its concern that, judging by the number of petitions being filed in this behalf, the incidence of 'disappearance' of people was on the increase. It observed that the government agencies were legally obliged to protect the life and liberty of citizens and they should act in accordance with the law."

On December 1, 2005, Shahzad reported to the Italian news agency AKI ( Adnkronos International) as follows:

"Arif Qasmani is a veteran jihadi, having fought against the Russian invasion of Afghanistan in the 1980s, and been associated with the armed struggle in Indian-held Kashmir. He was picked up by Pakistani security forces last October but released a few days later. Now Qasmani is once again missing. According to his family, he was in Karachi and departed for Lahore two days ago but since he left home his whereabouts are unknown." Around the same time, he reported to "AsiaTimes Online" as follows: "Arif Qasmani was a part of a high-level November 14 meeting in Islamabad held to initiate a process for peace between the Afghan resistance and coalition forces led by the US."

The same day, Amir Mir, the well-known Pakistani journalist, who writes for sections of the Pakistani media and some of whose articles are also carried by sections of the Indian media, reported as follows: "One of the four Pakistanis who reportedly held a clandestine meeting with the visiting American Undersecretary of State for Public Affairs Karen Hughes and other senior US State Department officials at Serena Hotel in Islamabad on November 14, 2005, to broker a deal between the Taliban and the United States is believed to have been kidnapped by the Pakistani intelligence agencies."

He added: "Previously linked with the now defunct Lashkar-e-Toiba, a militant outfit active in the Indian-administered Kashmir, Arif Qasmani is considered close to Javed Ibrahim Paracha, a former member of the National Assembly from Kohat district of the NWFP. Paracha, who is also the chairman of the World Prisoners' Relief Forum, claimed on November 17, 2005, that he was requested by the Americans during their Islamabad meeting to serve as a bridge between Washington, the Taliban and their Arab comrades for the purpose of 'reconciliation'. According to Paracha, Arif Qasmani has been picked up by the Pakistani intelligence agencies without any justification. "Qasmani went missing on Tuesday after he had left Karachi for Lahore by plane which was supposed to take off at 8 in the morning. His wife has informed me that Qasmani has not yet reached Lahore where he was supposed to hold a business meeting. I understand that he has been arrested by the sensitive agencies. He was earlier detained in August 2005. His family members now fear for his life", Paracha said.

He further reported: "Paracha, who is also Chairman International Rabita Jehad Council, said those who met the Americans on November 14 and discussed the possibility of negotiating with the Afghan resistance leaders included (besides him) Arif Qasmani, Khalid Khawaja and Shah Abdul Aziz of MMA from Karak district in NWFP. "There is every possibility that Qasmani has been detained for nvestigations in connection with the November 14 meeting", Paracha added. Khalid Khawaja, a former officer with the (ISI) Inter Services Intelligence said, "I have just met Arif Qasmani's wife in Karachi. She is much disturbed. She is shocked and believes that Qasmani has been kidnapped by the agencies who had previously detained him in August this year".Khawaja said the family of the kidnapped businessman is seriously considering approaching the court of law for his recovery. "I appeal to the government to inform his family members about his exact whereabouts. The government should ensure that Qasmani is recovered as early as possible", he added."

Thus, during his career, Arif Qasmani had helped the LET, the ISI, the TTP and the US State Department. He had helped the LET in its operations in India. He had helped the ISI by acting as its cut-out with the LET in order to maintain the deniability of the ISI's use of the LET against India. He had helped the Pakistani Taliban (TTP) in its operations against the Pakistan Army and the ISI and he had helped the US State Department by acting as an intermediary between it and the so-called good Taliban. He was also acting as the cut-out of Dawood Ibrahim for funding terrorist attacks in India and of Al Qaeda for using Pakistani jihadi cells in India for its operations. He was also associated with Khalid Khawaja, a retired officer of the Pakistan Air Force who had served in the ISI. Khawaja's name first cropped up during the investigation into the kidnapping and murder of Daniel Pearl, the journalist of the Wall Street Journal, at Karachi in January-February, 2002. Information regarding his alleged role in the Pearl's case had alleged that it was he who had told the kidnappers that Pearl was Jewish.

It is surprising that a man with such a controversial background should be moving in and out of informal custody in Pakistan since August 2005 and at the same time assisting the LET, Al Qaeda and the Taliban in their terrorist strikes, including the Mumbai attack of July,2006, and the blast of February,2007, in the Samjhauta Express without ever being prosecuted under Pakistan's Anti-Terrorism Act.

The State Department had known about him at least since 2005, if not earlier. Has the US Government now decided belatedly to act against him because he failed to deliver on the question of a peace deal with the so-called good Taliban?

B. Raman is Additional Secretary (retd), Cabinet Secretariat, Govt. of India, New Delhi, and, presently, Director, Institute For Topical Studies, Chennai.

ANNEXURE

Identifying Information as given in the US treasury notification of July 1, 2009

FAZEEL-A-TUL SHAYKH ABU MOHAMMED AMEEN AL-PESHAWARI
AKAs:
Shaykh Aminullah
Sheik Aminullah
Shaykh Ameen
Abu Mohammad Aminullah Peshawari
Shaykh Aminullah al-Peshawari
Abu Mohammad Amin Bishawri
Abu Mohammad Shaykh Aminullah al Bishauri
Shaykh Abu Mohammed Ameen al-Peshawari
DOB:
Circa 1967
Alt. DOB:
Circa 1961
Alt. DOB:
Circa 1973
POB:
Konar Province, Afghanistan
Address:
Ganj District, Peshawar, Pakistan

ARIF QASMANI
AKAs:
Muhammad Arif Qasmani
Muhammad 'Arif Qasmani
Mohammad Arif Qasmani
Qasmani Baba
Arif Umer
Memon Baba
Baba Ji
DOB:
Circa 1944
Address:
House Number 136, KDA Scheme No. 1,
Tipu Sultan Road, Karachi, Pakistan
Nationality:
Pakistani

MOHAMMED YAHYA MUJAHID
AKAs:
Mohammad Yahya Aziz
Yahya Mujahid
DOB:
March 12, 1961
POB:
Lahore, Punjab Province, Pakistan
National ID Card No.: Pakistan, 35404-1577309-9

NASIR JAVAID
AKAs:
Naser Javed
Nasir Javed
Nasser Javid
Abu Ishmael
Haji Nasir Javed
Nasar Javed
Qari Naser Javed
DOB:
Circa 1956
Alt. DOB:
Circa 1958
Alt. DOB:
Circa 1965
POB:
Pakistan
FROM:
Gujranwala, Punjab province, Pakistan
Address:
Mansehra district, Northwest Frontier
Province, Pakistan
Nationality:
Pakistani
 
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You are diverting from the topic very clearly.
No. I am not. You said that there are "facts" regarding IN invovlement. I asked for facts. You sidestepped it.

All these indians are saying we don't know who carried out Samjhota attacks. That's the responsibility of Indian government to provide.
As per IN a PK citizen has been named by UN and accepted by GoP. We are not getting GoP co-operation in high profile case like 26/11. How can we investigate further if PK citizen is named. Why not for change you investigate this Asif guy and prove that he is not involved in the blast or get further lead regarding IN involvement.
And they are brushing that attack under the carpet as it's not in their interests to do otherwise. If there were Pakistanis involved, I bet we would have heard that several time from GoI by now.
SE blast is hi-jecking the thread. So will refrain for responding on this further.
@topic- We (IN & PK) tried peace during 1999, Kargil derailed it. We tried peace in 2007-08, it get derailed by 26/11. Both time its somebody in PK who is against the peace and India had paid heavily for that.
And IN does not see PK working against those who are against the peace. Then how can one makes case that trying for peace is in India's favour.
 
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My discussion was regarding the Samjhota attacks, which are very much relevant to this topic. If you don't want to discuss them then simply don't reply to my posts. The facts I am talking about is the involvement of hindu extremists in Samjhota express bombings.
 
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The larger problem India I think must be seeing is that who controls Pak ?

Who has the capability to affect a change ? Even before the 1st reason for insurgency began Pak demonstrated its intent by sending in tribals & its army into J&K. This I feel was where the element of distrust came in. India hedged its risks when Hari Singh signed the instrument of accession.

So, how does one make peace with someone who is (a) Not in control of its own destiny. (b) Uses terrorism as a state policy and sees terrorists as strategic assets. (c) Has multiple centers of power - some in conflict with each other.(d) Absolves itself by referring to terrorists within its borders as ' non state' actors.

Mentioning Mumbai , Samjhota Exp or any incident has little relevance when the approach seems flawed.

Just as one good turn deserves another, things have now reached a point when one bad turn appears to deserve another too.
 
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...involvement of hindu extremists in Samjhota express bombings.

Which is in your imagination only. You have not provided anything to backup your assertion and looked other way when countered with fact. I am not capable of fighting somebodies imagination.
Facts and World point towards you. Your Govt has accepted that by not countering it.
 
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Which is in your imagination only.

Avoid personal attacks. I can get you in trouble for this.

You have not provided anything to backup your assertion and looked other way when countered with fact.

The information came from GoI itself. Where did I look? When was I countered with fact? What fact was I countered with? You went off tangent as regards to my reply. No fact was given as far as the topic is concerned.

I am not capable of fighting somebodies imagination.

Read first sentence above.

Facts and World point towards you. Your Govt has accepted that by not countering it.

What you talking about here?
 
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My discussion was regarding the Samjhota attacks, which are very much relevant to this topic. If you don't want to discuss them then simply don't reply to my posts. The facts I am talking about is the involvement of hindu extremists in Samjhota express bombings.

No. Its not an attack like 26/11 mumbai attack. It was a bomb blast.
It happened on Indian train on Indian soil. Pakistan has no locus-standi on it, unless Pakistanis were involved in planing and execution of this crime.
 
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