India may pull in Israeli IMI for next tank Project

[jarves]

There is no such thing as Israeli tank. It is M1A1 modified tank. All of it is US technology and US munitions/weaponry. India is getting dumber by the day with these defense deals as they serve you no purpose. Your country should be capable of its own projects instead of asking artificial state to lend you US technology.

You @Hazzy??
IF this deal ever gets through the jointly devloped tank has very less chance of being used by Israel since both countries have different combat and threat enviornment.

 

[Falcon29]

May be you are right............

India appears more than capable of its own weapons projects. If it wants technology transfers it should resort to Russia/US. For Design you can offer local designers reward for any workable designs. You have large population. But don't ask Israel for these things. Merkava tank is 100% US tech based of M1A1 but tated towards Israeli geography/battle plan.

India has different geography and purpose for tanks.

 

[TimeTraveller]

India appears more than capable of its own weapons projects. If it wants technology transfers it should resort to Russia/US. For Design you can offer local designers reward for any workable designs. You have large population. But don't ask Israel for these things. Merkava tank is 100% US tech based of M1A1 but tated towards Israeli geography/battle plan.

India has different geography and purpose for tanks.

Thanks Sir for this info...One question...Whatt are your views about India and its defence technologies....?

 

[Falcon29]

You @Hazzy??
IF this deal ever gets through the jointly devloped tank has very less chance of being used by Israel since both countries have different combat and threat enviornment.

Yes I am. I know Israel won't use that, but still you shouldn't look to them for design. Instead look at M1A1 platform. Israels platform is based off that. Only different thing is they add systems intended for urban warfare. Some of which are US funded projects. And their tanks are used against weak non state actors. They use indiscriminate tank shells in combat which is devastating for urban environment. For large landscapes like India it makes sense but for Israel that is intention to kill many people.

 

[Falcon29]

Thanks Sir for this info...One question...Whatt are your views about India and its defence technologies....?

I don't know much about India since I largely follow ME current events. For your defense, I don't know if you're capable of own design since it isn't easy. Israel does not have own design. It is American platform. India can take Russian design and modify it. Kind of like how Pakistan took tank design and modified it to suit Pakistani preference and called it Al-Khalid. I think India should be producing its own variants of rifles/shells/anti tank rounds/mortars. If we're talking ground based systems. And I'm sure you already do. But for Naval/Air I don't know much about that.

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't know much about India since I largely follow ME current events. For your defense, I don't know if you're capable of own design since it isn't easy. Israel does not have own design. It is American platform. India can take Russian design and modify it. Kind of like how Pakistan took tank design and modified it to suit Pakistani preference and called it Al-Khalid. I think India should be producing its own variants of rifles/shells/anti tank rounds/mortars. If we're talking ground based systems. And I'm sure you already do. But for Naval/Air I don't know much about that.

India has its own strengths as far as MBTs go (mostly in the suspension and armour arenas) but the Israelis are world leaders in other tech (protection systems both passive and active, RCWS, electronics etc )so working together will play to the strengths of both an produce an excellent product at the end of it.

As for the Al-Khalid being Pakistani, let's not even talk about the Chinese involvement shall we?

 

[TimeTraveller]

I don't know much about India since I largely follow ME current events. For your defense, I don't know if you're capable of own design since it isn't easy. Israel does not have own design. It is American platform. India can take Russian design and modify it. Kind of like how Pakistan took tank design and modified it to suit Pakistani preference and called it Al-Khalid. I think India should be producing its own variants of rifles/shells/anti tank rounds/mortars. If we're talking ground based systems. And I'm sure you already do. But for Naval/Air I don't know much about that.

Thanks Sir for Answering.....
This one is Indian MBT....
Arjun (tank) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Abingdonboy]

India appears more than capable of its own weapons projects. If it wants technology transfers it should resort to Russia/US. For Design you can offer local designers reward for any workable designs. You have large population. But don't ask Israel for these things. Merkava tank is 100% US tech based of M1A1 but tated towards Israeli geography/battle plan.

India has different geography and purpose for tanks.

Don't bring your anti-Israel views into this. India can do what it likes, claiming the Merkava is "100% US tech" is nonsense beyond belief. India and Israel have a lot to learn from each other and share with each other, this is a mutually beneficial relationship. Russia has screwed India over enough times and the US isn't willing to provide the kind of co-operation and ToT India wants unless India agrees to certain conditions that would be against India's interest to seek strategic autonomy.

 

[Falcon29]

India has its own strengths as far as MBTs go (mostly in the suspension and armour arenas) but the Israelis are world leaders in other tech (protection systems both passive and active, RCWS, electronics etc )so working together will play to the strengths of both an produce an excellent product at the end of it.

As for the Al-Khalid being Pakistani, let's not even talk about the Chinese involvement shall we?

Al-Khalid is based of foreign platform as most tank variants are. No they are not world leaders. Many countries have had protection systems for tanks long before Israel. And their systems are not impressive, they only work against against outdated anti tank rounds and in some cases missiles which still isn't impressive as those used in Gaza for example are old north Korean versions. And are limited in quanity. Against modern military it is not useful.

 

[Echo_419]

Please please let this news be true! Indian-Israeli partnership on FMBT is going to be a real winner!!

Agreed Israeli participation would be greatly appreciated I fact why not co develop a tank on the lines of Barak 8

 

[acid rain]

Al-Khalid is based of foreign platform as most tank variants are. No they are not world leaders. Many countries have had protection systems for tanks long before Israel. And their systems are not impressive, they only work against against outdated anti tank rounds and in some cases missiles which still isn't impressive as those used in Gaza for example are old north Korean versions. And are limited in quanity. Against modern military it is not useful.

You are being biased and quite understandable too. Israel dedefense industry is one of the best, especially their electronics, surveillance and radars.

 

[Falcon29]

Don't bring your anti-Israel views into this. India can do what it likes, claiming the Merkava is "100% US tech" is nonsense beyond belief. India and Israel have a lot to learn from each other and share with each other, this is a mutually beneficial relationship. Russia has screwed India over enough times and the US isn't willing to provide the kind of co-operation and ToT India wants unless India agrees to certain conditions that would be against India's interest to seek strategic autonomy.

Sir you are a lost cause if you believe Merkava tank is based of Israeli innovation or tech. It is all based off American/British tanks and their features with minor exceptions. That being the tank is tailored towards their environment. I wasn't bashing India here, I just believe you have much potential and discourage you from looking to Israel. They aren't a world leader in any tech enviroment besides having some of most advanced drones. Doesn't matter if Russia screwed you over, this is politics. Get what you can out of them, you find a reliable ally. Israel isn't an ally, it just salesmen willing to sell you products it doesn't care for. And it has no interest in politics of region so you can't test them as an ally.

 

[Falcon29]

1.India has designed it's own Arjun Series tanks. It's shortcoming that is that it is a heavy tank ( 70 Tonne) , thus most of bridge in Punjab could not support it,and it is costliest Tank in world ( $11 million per piece).It was developed at a time when Pakistan was rumored to be purchasing M1A1/2 and India has to field a heavy tank in order to counter it.

2.India has varied geography. The type of tank that would be operable in Israel would also be operable in Indian Desert which make up 60% of Indo-Pak border. Though it would be useless for Himalayan operations where a light tank is required and in Punjab where a Tank would need to be able to cross network of canals.

3.The next project FMBT Karna is also expected to be a heavy tank ( though of lesser weight than Arjun ). India could not team up with China (obviously), Russia ( Russia is into light tanks), Germany ( not interested even in upgrading Leopard, forgot new series of tanks ), USA ( USA never goes for tech co-operation), Japan ( no military cooperation clause in their constitution, else Japan would be first choice) . SO natural partner, if a partner is required , would be Israel. A partnership would compress timelines of development and India would need not develop all tech inhouse, especially active countermeasures like Trophy and Iron fist.

Current Barak-8 QR-SAM development is a good template for joint development. Workload of that missile has been shared between DRDO and IAI.Israel benefits from such projects as they provide economy of scale which Israeli military could not provide, alone ( ex: Indian Navy has 2 Aircraft carriers,9 landing ships,19 destroyers,16 frigates, and 25 corvetts while Israel only has 3 corvetts).

4. Israel is ready to supply us with tech which US is not wiling to supply US. France and Israel are major source of western tech for India.

Look to France/UK for tech with exception of drones. Most Israeli weaponry is based of French/UK/American systems.

 

[sathya]

Both can join in designing unmanned turret for their respective tanks..

 

[sathya]

I am not sure to ask this here..

US offered smooth bore gun technology to India

Should we change our rifle gun to smooth bore or

Design suitable ammunition for rifle gun ?