India launches its 1st indigenous aircraft carrier INS Vikrant

[gslv mk3]

@TheFlyingPretzel
Post reported
Yeah resort to personal attacks and cry harder.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Screambowl]

How close to Pakistani coast,will the Aircraft carrier operate,and how will the aircraft reach within 250 kms of the aircraft carrier evading detection ?

AC is not required to attack Pakistani Mainland, however it may be required to create no fly zone in Arabian sea and blockade.

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

@TheFlyingPretzel
Post reported
Yeah resort to personal attacks and cry harder.......!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only person crying here is the fanboy in you.

 

[Mav3rick]

Well still need a video of the Cm-400 missile to know if it was ever tested.

Well IAF bombing on tiger hill and on the supply lines was more than enough. But you still don't understand that the aerial recon flown by the Jags helped in accurate shelling on the Pakistani NLI positions (I deliberately called them NLI because it is an insult to every soldier there who fought there to satisfy some Generals ego as a Mujahid/******). When the PAF realized this they sent the PAF F 16s to intercept the Jags but when the MiG 29s showed up and after 2 incidents the PAF was effectively grounded because of fear of losing the most potent aircraft in their inventory and lack of spares as you were under sanctions from the US for the Nuclear tests.

Can you prove any of the above? Please provide evidence, especially the grounding of F-16's in fear of the mighty MKI....opps not even MKIs but Mig-29!!

 

[gslv mk3]

The only person crying here is the fanboy in you.

Yeah,Last time fanboy brought the Nasr battlefield range missile into discussion about GSLV ,Now he want to bring Chinese DF 21 to discussion about INS Vikrant....so long fanboy

I see that the awful itch in your rear has yet to be soothed...

Yeah,from the same guy who said,Indians are plain stupid when it comes to Space research,while Pakistanis are clever..

 

[TheFlyingPretzel]

Yeah,Last time fanboy brought the Nasr battlefield range missile into discussion about GSLV ,Now he want to bring Chinese DF 21 to discussion about INS Vikrat....so long fanboy

Yes, that's where you went wrong. We don't want recaps. Desist from looking like a complete fool.

 

[Mav3rick]

What did I say,We are developing LCA by taking time,meanwhile you can take time in developing a basic trainer aircraft,And oh,meanwhile we are developing a flying wing UCAV

As I said, what's the point when our supplier is dependable and produces them cheaper then even we can?

Then why should china downplay the range then?RAN 40 L radar on the Aircraft itself has a range of 400km(or that is what is available in public)

What Radar and on what Aircraft? What is the relation b/w the 2?

You are trying to deviate from the point,I said India have good experience with non Russian weapons,and my points prove it
And yes,Kargil-do you think the role of a multirole fighter is just Air to Air ?It proved its mettle in high altitude conditions.What about Gnats?evenStarfighter fell prey to those tiny jets!

Not just A2A but A2A is the focal point of attention today as both sides have AWACS that can effectively detect Jets taking off from forward bases of the other country. So most Jets/Bombers will have to face the Air Force of the other country and defeat it before any actual bombing mission is possible. A2G such as those that have a range effective enough to be launched within the airspace would be the only safe bet.

How do you think that it is as better as AMRAAM then?Even China still operates R 73 and R 77,IAF is still inducting the same while having Python V and Derby.What does that prove?

Where did I ever even attempt to say that it was better then AMRAAM? I said it is almost as good, perhaps upto 80% as good as the earlier versions of AMRAAM.

Boasting about a Chinese developed weapon system like Pakistan had developed it...So typical.Do you remember the last time you got your *** kicked?

No, we have short memories. But we do remember when our 7 times larger enemy amassed almost a million troops at our border and could not dare move 1 inch across! We also remember how India withdrew from the border unconditionally and unilaterally, and in the process lost quite a few soldiers.

 

[gslv mk3]

RAN 40L Radar

The RAN-40L is a 3D Long Range Early Warning Radarwith fully solid state active phased array antenna.The RAN-40L radar system derives from SELEX SistemiIntegrati experience on the 3D Long Range Radar. Thephilosophy of the radar design has been intensivelyproven on the land based 3D RAT-31DL (Long RangeSurveillance Radar provided worldwide to the NATOCountries and Foreign customers).RAN-40L ensures detection of aircraft up to 400km and aminimum range of 180m.Radar instrumental range is divided into interval in whichdifferent waveforms are used: • Short Range (SR) waveform for sea, land and weather clutter suppression; • Long Range (LR) waveform to optimise performance in terms of coverage and ECCM capability;Radar coverage is obtained by phase-scanning in elevation,while mechanically rotating in azimuth. The antenna rotatesat 6 or 12 rpm providing 360° azimuth coverage.Two independent and simultaneous pencil beams are usedin transmission and in reception. High elevation accuracy isguaranteed by monopulse techniques.The receiver channel is linear in a wide range and it hashigh dynamic. It uses pulse digital compression techniquesto guarantee a suitable average power with low peak powerto provide resistance against ARM (Anti Radiation Missile)without a reduction in resolution

http://www.selex-systemsintegration.de/fileadmin/media/pdf/RAN_40L.pdf]RAN 40L2007.qxd[/url]

Yes, that's where you went wrong.We don't want recaps. Desist from looking like a complete fool.

Yes,I often visit that thread and go .well,your posts in that thread prove one thing...

 

[gslv mk3]

As I said, what's the point when our supplier is dependable and produces them cheaper then even we can?

You can stop laughing at people who try to develop one on its own.

What Radar and on what Aircraft? What is the relation b/w the 2?

On the aircraft carrier I meant.

Not just A2A but A2A is the focal point of attention today as both sides have AWACS that can effectively detect Jets taking off from forward bases of the other country. So most Jets/Bombers will have to face the Air Force of the other country and defeat it before any actual bombing mission is possible. A2G such as those that have a range effective enough to be launched within the airspace would be the only safe bet.

My point was not the Kargil war,IAF was impressed by perfomance and utility of Mirage 2000s,My point is India was not entirely dependent on Russian Systems even back then

Where did I ever even attempt to say that it was better then AMRAAM? I said it is almost as good, perhaps upto 80% as good as the earlier versions of AMRAAM.

What about R73,R77

No, we have short memories. But we do remember when our 7 times larger enemy amassed almost a million troops at our border and could not dare move 1 inch across! We also remember how India withdrew from the border unconditionally and unilaterally, and in the process lost quite a few soldiers.

That was not about the war...It was abut one of his troll post in other thread.leave it.

 

[Gessler]

the keel was laid in February 2009
You have to prove that the indian steel mills could supply before that time

As @indiatester said, it appears the article was published in 2008, and besides, read this: -

Inquiries revealed the process has taken about 10 years. In 1999, the navy procured the formula for a grade of the metal called ABA steel from Russia. The navy was using the metal for its warships — many of which were and are on order in Russia. The navy then handed it over to the DMRL.

“That gave us the chemistry but it did not tell us how we can produce it,” says Malkondaiah

From here: Warship grade steel made by SAIL

So the work on making indigenous warship-grade steel began by absorbing Russian tech back in 1999, he says the process took some 10 years (beginning of project to beginning of supply of the completed product), which means till 2009. So when the keel was laid, Indian steel was available.

Plus, the steel received from Russia was too little - it cannot be enough to build the entire keel.

see my % allocation of the importance of different sections of the vessel where steel are required

because the Russians were mentioned in numerous reports to supply you specialised steel which at the time of signing the contract, indian steel makers were unable to produce

The contract was signed when SAIL was still working on it's project, but when were the Russians actually ready to deliver the steel?

How much steel has been delivered by Russia? Is it enough for whole keel structure?

You are drawing conclusions without assessing the truths.

Steel forms the major part of the hull and the most important material to make it

Yes, but still, steel alone cannot make entire hull, atmost it constitutes 90-95% of the whole structure, now that it's said upto 90% of the hull is Indian, there is reason to believe 100% of the steel used in fabrication of the hull was from India.

Even if we did receive steel from Russia (a few early batches), it's unlikely CSL could have put it to use on IAC-1 because by 2009 Indian steel was also available and anyway most of the ship would be made of Indian steel, so where was the point in putting a small percentage of Russian steel?

Is it safe to mix 2 types of steel? Wouldn't CSL have thought this over?

If at all Russian steel was used for the keel, it would certainly have found mention when the ship was launched 3 days ago.

True but as I said the structure blueprints (including relevant manuals / handbooks) plus good testing equipment will do the analysis

Yet you cannot replace the consistency of the materials. It's just like overhauling a fighter jet - you can replace the engine, the radar, and avionics, but you cannot replace the airframe. Unless you produce a new batch of fighters with a new airframe from scratch.

There is no answer to confrim because the indians expenditures are focused on your new AC while Gorshkov refit is a secondary ac by default

But if there are technical / design problems that prop up during your seatrial and operation then Gorshkov will gain its importance in the fleet

IN wants 3 aircraft carriers minimum - so both IAC-1 and Gorshkov were equally important. The 3rd one will be the first CVN built in India - the IAC-2/Vishaal.

Getting the block of iron to the stage of sailing it at high sea beautiflly at 30 knots with appropriate equipment for fighter jets' operating on it is marvellous engineering job

As other members have pointed out as well, there is little to no Chinese engineering expertise involved in refitting Varyag - you only bought and added the components to bring it on par with the Kuznetsov already serving in Russian Navy today - flying the same Su-33 (J-15 in china).

Ukrainian help was present all the way - plus, this is the first time PLAN got to own an aircraft carrier, so it's unlikely you could have done anything marvelous with it because you were still learning about what goes where and how it works.

It is as demanding if not more because the flexibilities are much less than building from scratch

There is no question of flexibility because you did not make Varyag into something more than what it was meant to be! It was meant to be STOBAR carrier flying a Flanker-type fighter jet - that's what it is even in Chinese service.

The problem was that it wasn't fully ready when you bought it from Ukraine - but you only dragged it through a path already cleared by Russians when they built Kuznetsov (Varyag is a Kuznetsov-class ship after all). You did not re-write anything. So there is no question of "flexibility".

that is cheerleaders' viewpoint
Even the blinds can see a rusty floating ironblock that was once towed by tugboats is completely transformed into a self-powered 60K ton aircraft carrier that can navigate to the Pacific.

As I said, it is still the rusty iron block it was when it sat in Ukraine - it doesn't do anything more than what it was originally meant to.

Besides, it's only a training ship - unlikely to be ready to undertake real combat ops the way IAC-1 and Vikramaditya can.

we have some parts which are sources from Ukraine. The Russian element on Liaoning is none to low (aircraft not included)

If I'm right the engines of this ship are Ukrainian ones. Plus the J-15 is based on the Sukhoi T-10K prototype aircraft Shenyang bought from Ukraine. Still it is powered by Russian engines on carrier. The pilots were trained by Brazilians.

Liaoning would not be what it is today without the great help given by a multitude of foreign nations.

Liaoning was completely overhauled, floating and power-enabled when we had the inauguration
while your gigantic ironing board is like a 3/8 baked cake presented for celebration

Please...now you are comparing the 1980s junk Varyag to modern IAC-1.

Atleast compare it with Gorshkov.

SCS is the sea territory where Liaoning will operate then.

That's great. Oh and by the way, our aircraft carriers are meant to traverse the entire Indian Ocean and in future, much beyond IO.

Liaoning provides valuable experience for us to the building and operating of our next aircraft carrier(s) for sure

I can understand that when it was said that Liaoning is a training ship,

anyway India does not need to refit 1980s ships to learn about ACCs, we know this stuff very well, hence we are building our own carrier from scratch.

Just wait for the 65,000-tonners to appear...

see the above answer. You have to be patient for the rolling out of the next CV or CVN
We have a lot of experience in shipbuilding that easily trumps india
your gigantic ironing board is designed by the Italians

I would be really surprised if your future carrier doesn't turn out to be a carbon copy of Varyag.

on forums and on paper only

List of carriers of IN -

INS Vikrant (ex-HMS Hercules)
INS Viraat (ex-HMS Hermes)

and now: -

INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov)
INS Vikrant (Project-71 IAC-1)

PLAN has only acquired 1 second-hand carrier a few months ago, and you think you have inched ahead of us.

 

[GURU DUTT]

I believe that ACC may be deployed by IN in case of war against Pakistan, and so this discussion. If it is not deployed then there is no point in this argument.

And don't worry, we will find Jets that will carry our ACCK against IN, when necessary.

As for your Air Force, we are not very concerned, as the Russian BVRs that you carry have 0 kills in their history and are extremely unreliable where as the BVRs that we carry have an excellent record. The story is quite similar, although not as grim, with regards to WVR Missiles. Plus, most importantly, we will have force multipliers in ground based SAM assets and Jammers plus AWACS well within PAF airspace while IAF will have to face all those along with PAF .



You expect to be engaging threats beyond 300km's of your CBG? CAP missions beyond 200km's? Really?

well you are senior member and u talk like that he he he what can i say

1. we just dont have the russian BVRs we have french , israeli and osme others aswell we dont disclose all and russian ones are very leathel if you want to beleve they are worthless then be happy in your lala land its good for us in a way

2. do you have any idea about the EW suites and jaamers indian MKIs , Migs & M2Ks carry and there power against what you have

3.Pakistan is not the onli country to field AWACS planes your swedish ones are not working and you have no chances of upgrading or raking up there numbers & what you feel about owr Russian BVRs your chinese stuff then is a laughing stalk of the world and every one knows the power of phalcons (which can track all pakistani air space while bieng at least 50KMs inside indian border), Green pines & latest French radars what we have

4. The thread is about Indian AC and for your information it will have at least 4 K31 AWAC helis on board with 20 MIG 29 Ks whos fighting radius is 850KMs withowt external feul load + they can detect & trac and strike well before your fighter planes carrying your chinese carrier killers see them

5.Indian Land based & Aerostat Radar's well within (50 KMs) indian territory can and are tracking all your air space as far as sarghoda and not to forget the Indian ACs will be having the very best Israeli ASEA Radars on board + the PESA Radar on board the other ships escorting it ready to fire at your planes if ever they are able avade the MIG 29 Ks

so all owr ACs and future acquisitions(rafale & FGFA) are for China not pakistan

to choke pakistani sea lines onli owr jamnagar base is enof and there is nothing you could do about it as niether you have technology nor numbers deu to empty pockets + your biggest asset in this field has abondened and sanctioned you tell me what & how will you counter indian navies threat please im waiting ....Thanks

 

[Gessler]

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Can you prove any of the above? Please provide evidence, especially the grounding of F-16's in fear of the mighty MKI....opps not even MKIs but Mig-29!!

We had the Mig 29s equipped with R27 during Kargil where you did not have any BVR on the F 16s. You can read it up on almost all the neutral sites like the FAS, Globalsecurity and ACIG just to name a few.

 

[indiatester]

@Gessler and @shuttler, the presentation I provided actually was made in 2007 by the director of DRML. It even lists out the quantity of kinds of steel ordered from differet steel mills. It cannot be more cannon than this. The only thing is is missing is order numbers. It even lists out how our process is different from Russian process.
Can we agree that most of the steel for IAC-1 was manufactured in India.

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

You're trying too hard. That's your problem. You're putting in far too much effort.

Cool analysis princess.