As @
indiatester said, it appears the article was published in 2008, and besides, read this: -
From here:
Warship grade steel made by SAIL
So the work on making indigenous warship-grade steel began by absorbing Russian tech back in 1999, he says the process took some 10 years (beginning of project to beginning of supply of the completed product), which means till 2009. So when the keel was laid, Indian steel was available.
Plus, the steel received from Russia was too little - it cannot be enough to build the entire keel.The contract was signed when SAIL was still working on it's project, but when were the Russians actually ready to deliver the steel?
How much steel has been delivered by Russia? Is it enough for whole keel structure?
So you have confirmed and denied at the same time things that are crucial for the Russian involvement in the supply of specialised steel to the gigantic ironing board:
1. Russians have provided great assistance to indian steel mills' making of the required steel
2. It is silly for the indian navy / shipyards to have signed a contract with Russians if they were confident of making the steel themselves
3. It is more silly to let the Russians go away even they breached the contract on non-delivery; and presumably there were downpayments on the indian side
4. some % of specialsed steel was imported and whether the foreign tonnages were enough to build the Keel can be measued by knowing how many tonnage were supplied and the weight of the KEEL for the hull.
You are drawing conclusions without assessing the truths.
So the truth is there that the steel is not 100% indigenous
The missing part is whether the foreign steel were for the Keel which required more specialised quality steel than other parts of the hull at that early stage. And that quality was missing from indian steel mills and the only reason for Russian import at that time
Yes, but still, steel alone cannot make entire hull, atmost it constitutes 90-95% of the whole structure, now that it's said upto 90% of the hull is Indian, there is reason to believe 100% of the steel used in fabrication of the hull was from India.
explained above and your claim is fallacious
Even if we did receive steel from Russia (a few early batches), it's unlikely CSL could have put it to use on IAC-1 because by 2009 Indian steel was also available and anyway most of the ship would be made of Indian steel, so where was the point in putting a small percentage of Russian steel?
It depends on what area of steel that Russian steel took their part. If it was the Keel then the contribution of Russian steel to the hull is bigger than you think - then an under-estimation of imports and overstatement of the indian claims
Is it safe to mix 2 types of steel? Wouldn't CSL have thought this over?
You cant mix as in the sense of mixture but you can provide to the structures with different quality of steel. The hull is exactly exemplary of a structure which is made up of steel of varying quality
If at all Russian steel was used for the keel, it would certainly have found mention when the ship was launched 3 days ago.
I dont think so. Based on the customary and a long history of cheerleading egotism and nationalism in indians
Even the vessel was designed by the italians how many people know this and seldom or none of that is mentioned in your media
Yet you cannot replace the consistency of the materials. It's just like overhauling a fighter jet - you can replace the engine, the radar, and avionics, but you cannot replace the airframe. Unless you produce a new batch of fighters with a new airframe from scratch.
This is Dessault‘s Rafale which is made up of different material
as I said Chinese and Russians have the expertise and equipments to do the refitting works
Cheerleaders dont!
IN wants 3 aircraft carriers minimum - so both IAC-1 and Gorshkov were equally important. The 3rd one will be the first CVN built in India - the IAC-2/Vishaal.
I leave this to your own. Keeping 3 or more AC for india is a mega luxury. you are driving your country to bankrupticy on the fast lane
As other members have pointed out as well, there is little to no Chinese engineering expertise involved in refitting Varyag - you only bought and added the components to bring it on par with the Kuznetsov already serving in Russian Navy today - flying the same Su-33 (J-15 in china).
that only manifest the simplicity of the members mentality themselves
The refitting job is a very complex project. Ask the Russians about this and even more complex when Chinese was not the builder of varag.[/QUOTE]
Ukrainian help was present all the way - plus, this is the first time PLAN got to own an aircraft carrier, so it's unlikely you could have done anything marvelous with it because you were still learning about what goes where and how it works.
We have great expertise in building the largest vessels
We never claim we are experienced in building or operating aircraft carriers. Now our expertise is starting to accumulate fast after Liaoning
I think the Ukrainians was there to further explain the missing information on the blueprints, manuals etc or on the structures. They built it. Who is the best party to supply the information then other than the builders themselves!?
There is no question of flexibility because you did not make Varyag into something more than what it was meant to be! It was meant to be STOBAR carrier flying a Flanker-type fighter jet - that's what it is even in Chinese service.
The problem was that it wasn't fully ready when you bought it from Ukraine - but you only dragged it through a path already cleared by Russians when they built Kuznetsov (Varyag is a Kuznetsov-class ship after all). You did not re-write anything. So there is no question of "flexibility".
that is less than amateurish comment
You were taking the comparison of building a brand new ac again the reffiting of a second hand
of course the new one is providing a lot more flexibilites to the builders! This is just common sense for heavens sake!
As I said, it is still the rusty iron block it was when it sat in Ukraine - it doesn't do anything more than what it was originally meant to. Besides, it's only a training ship - unlikely to be ready to undertake real combat ops the way IAC-1 and Vikramaditya can.
Liaoning is publicly pronounced that it is primarily a vessel for training and scientific research. It can provide invaluable info to PLAN. It is key to our long term development.
When its primary jobs are fulfilled, I would expect Liaoning to be a versatile standby for our own aircraft carriers which are to be rolled out in a couple of years
If I'm right the engines of this ship are Ukrainian ones. Plus the J-15 is based on the Sukhoi T-10K prototype aircraft Shenyang bought from Ukraine. Still it is powered by Russian engines on carrier. The pilots were trained by Brazilians.
yes Chinese engines are not cater for ukrainian ships
J-15 is made in China and our WS engines is capable of fitting to J-15 while your kaveri is in indian recycling shed about 1 or 2 years ago
We have our own pilots
indian pilots are trained by israel, us and russia so your casualty and crash rates are the highest in the world
Liaoning would not be what it is today without the great help given by a multitude of foreign nations.
we never claim Liaoning is "indigenous" but cheerleading indians are say "indigenous" this and that on their gigantic ironing board
Please...now you are comparing the 1980s junk Varyag to modern IAC-1.
Atleast compare it with Gorshkov.
We are not afraid of comparing Liaoning with any indian vessels as long as they are run by the indian navy
That's great. Oh and by the way, our aircraft carriers are meant to traverse the entire Indian Ocean and in future, much beyond IO.
sounds good! make sure you have enough life-savers (not candy) and life boats and rafts on board. We can supply those to you.
I can understand that when it was said that Liaoning is a training ship,
anyway India does not need to refit 1980s ships to learn about ACCs, we know this stuff very well, hence we are building our own carrier from scratch
your experience on operating ACs are very good on papers
you are refitting a second hand too but the Russians are doing that for you cos you are incapable
Just wait for the 65,000-tonners to appear...
yeah cant wait another record breaking gigantic ironing borad.
May be it will be 40% complete and 5x budget overun and 5 years delayed?
I would be really surprised if your future carrier doesn't turn out to be a carbon copy of Varyag.
Good you are submitted to the fact our refitted AC - the Liaoning is outstanding which breathes new lives to the de-comissioned rusty Varyag
List of carriers of IN -
INS Vikrant (ex-HMS Hercules)
INS Viraat (ex-HMS Hermes)
and now: -
INS Vikramaditya (ex-Admiral Gorshkov)
INS Vikrant (Project-71 IAC-1)
PLAN has only acquired 1 second-hand carrier a few months ago, and you think you have inched ahead of us.
Not a worry for us as long as there are enough cheerleaders on board these vessels!
I dont think your gigantic ironing board can make that turn without collisons
Also you are claiming new membership in the "elite" club after uk, france, usa, russia - correct?
. The Italians do not know anything about STOBAR carriers. They were originally helping with the Advanced Defence Ship (ADS) project which were supposed to displace just around 28,000
Good luck Indians
