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India is on a Mission to Build a Stealth Fighter by 2025

Stealthy Samosa.
The dragons will have a good snack, unless you make them wait till the 2080s.
Quite so.

Imagine the cheek of these inferior racial types, hoping to build their own planes. Has paint gone out of fashion, or do they think they are as clever as the firangs?

What's the world coming to?
 
Indeed. for a country the size & economy of India, it makes no sense to go shopping for weapon systems. Alright, no one can make (or should make) everything by themselves. But still strategic weapons should have less reliance on other countries.

As noted, though, the development cycle as executed by DRDO is too prolonged. The Project ought to be paced well & not allowed to fall victim to bureaucratic red tape.

It is my wish that this project be delayed enough that IAF does not feel comfortable with misadventures; and that consequently, Indian leadership considers a durable peace & regional connectivity as the best approach. This would help the region curb militancy & extremism (religious, nationalistic, ethnic). We can make this century a truly Asian century. India holds the key, but do Indians realize this?

Wise words.

Let's hope that projects like TAPI can pave way to this future you envision. :)
 
It took India over 30 years to design a single engine light combat aircraft with the most basic of "4th gen" technologies and to this day it has crippling issues with build quality and despite an ageing IAF fleet with obsolete Bison's crashing every few months they are unable to induct it in large numbers, have no export customers whatsoever (JF17 blew it out of the market completely) and are constantly fixing issues that look like they should have been resolved in major iterations of the jet not monthly patches like an Android operating system. How will you create a stealth fighter by 2025 before TF-X, KAI-FX, Checkmate all projects by nations many times more competent than India in many prerequisite fields (especially engines and advanced materials) have even fielded a prototype? Or before the FC-31 or SU57 have even begun to finalize and be inducted on mass despite both having extensive history of testing by China and Russia respectively and many difficulties with domestic engine production in the case of China.

This must be a joke. Ambition is good when it isn't debilitatingly stupid like this. Reach for what you can hit, achieve it, learn, and reach for more like the JF17 project which seriously underpromised and overdelivered having started as a joint budget multirole with not much expectations to soon the backbone of the Pakistani fleet and prolific export product.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/workmanship-on-hal-tejas-still-poor.731704/#post-13489235
I doubt that the 2025 date is achievable, and I wish wherever that report originated is doused with pesticide before long.

The rest of your post reeks with envy and malice. It is difficult even to begin to answer. While it is quite true that manufacturing at HAL can be performed only in small quantities, and that productionising some of the composite material components is still not stabilised, due to complete unfamiliarity with this technology earlier, it is also true that other parts of Indian industry, not the defence industries, that are still very, very small, are reasonably efficient.

If we continue to make the slow steps that have been made so far, we shall be doing well. No matter who feels how badly wounded by a bitterly hated enemy doing well.
 
I fail to understand who is writing these non-sense articles really in name of "defence". Does he know anything about India's aviation industry and capability or aviation tech in general? This is not a toy we are talking about. It's a 5th gen fighter (with 6th gen tech according to India), which by the way only 2 countries so far have deployed so far operationally.

Russian struggling
Turkish struggling (seeking assistance)
China struggling (J-20 is not fully there itself)
Koreans struggling (came out with half baked 4.5 semi stealth KFX)
Japanese struggling
US itself struggling with F-35, and naval version stealth coasting rusting issues

India took 35 years to develop a Mark 1 version of 4th gen Tejas. The later versions are going to take another 5-10 years. And India is already seeking technology transfer of critical technologies by using MMRCA as bargaining chip. And even then AMCA will be here by 2025?

Well every one can shut down their 5th gen programmes (including indians for Tejas) and start buying AMCA from India.
You could help to cut down these 'non-sense' articles by doing your homework, and not cutting and pasting the most scandalous figures of the time-frame for the Tejas.

It would also help if the political gabble and complete lack of knowledge of the ruling party is subtracted from the equation and the competencies and capabilities that exist are addressed. I could give you examples from my personal experience, if it did not seem to be a piqued reaction.

I dont, I just dont want India to buy KF21/IFX to be used against Pakistan. Having its own program will make India doesnt want to buy similar Stealth plane from other country
That is actually a very sound suggestion, and has been the hard and frustrating path that India has actually chosen.
 
You could help to cut down these 'non-sense' articles by doing your homework, and not cutting and pasting the most scandalous figures of the time-frame for the Tejas.

It would also help if the political gabble and complete lack of knowledge of the ruling party is subtracted from the equation and the competencies and capabilities that exist are addressed. I could give you examples from my personal experience, if it did not seem to be a piqued reaction.


That is actually a very sound suggestion, and has been the hard and frustrating path that India has actually chosen.
Come out your nationalistic ego and tell me honestly, What does your homework tell you? AMCA is going be flying by 2025?
 
Come out your nationalistic ego and tell me honestly, What does your homework tell you? AMCA is going be flying by 2025?
Possible, but unlikely.

What nationalistic ego are you talking about? Or is it a pre-programmed phrase that comes out on demand?

You did notice that what you were advised is completely different from what you thought of as a response?
 
Simply announcing that you wish to create a 5th gen program and then putting a due date on it the day after tomorrow? 7 years sooner than the realistic timeline of any other nation with 5x your expertise manufacturing, operationalizing, maintaining most component technologies involved?
Did you read my first line? Often, the first line of a post is the first to be read. A habit that is recommended to you for what it's worth.
If this is your definition of "doing well" I completely understand why it took India 30 years to build a single engine samosa that not even the IAF thinks is good enough to replace flying coffin MIG-21s that kill more of your pilots than anything else. I've seen better welding work in a Peshawar bike shop.
Again, you should look at the 30 years with a closer look than you seem prepared to do. It is easy to pick up a figure here and a figure there and come to self-serving conclusions. It is easy to take up the facetious remark of a young person seeking to impress her audience with her ready wit and sense of humour, while displaying the deep streak of envy that seems to grip people who look at the result and feel inadequate.

I am not sure where you get the impression that the IAF is not keen to replace the MiG21s with the Tejas. The Tejas is a work in progress, the first front-line fighter that has been designed and built in India after the HF24, and it will absorb improvements very readily, especially as all the software and integration aspects are in our own hands.

Oh, good luck with your Peshawar bike shop. Presumably that is where you design and build your thousands of bikes and scooters.
Designing and maintaining stealth shape and coating involves precision chemistry and metalwork unlike any other field in the world.
You might like to ask around about the difficulty in going from a low level of aviation technology to one that seeks to emulate and improve upon the MiG21.

We did it, and I have no doubt that we will succeed in making a stealth design, shape, coating and bolts included. I wonder if any aspect of the precision chemistry (in making the composites that form a significant part of the Tejas structure) or the metalwork fails to meet your discerning gaze, or if you therefore believe that your Peshawar bike shop is likely to make planes faster and better.
Countries that build stealth fighters mind the size and depth of each and every screw on the surface of the jet to minimize radar cross section. Some of the metal blemishes I've seen on every single public photo of the Tejas are the size of half a fist:laughcry:🤣 It will light up on radar.
It was not meant to be a stealth design, in case you have forgotten. When the shape was designed, only a substitute for the MiG21 was planned. It is a matter of great regret that your advice and guidance was not sought and a stealth aircraft produced instead of what finally resulted. There would have been such a dramatic boost in performance if that sound step had been taken. After all, what can meet modern aviation technical requirements more accurately than a Peshawar bike shop?
Even Pakistan has given up on the indigenous stealth technology race now and have merged AZM with a partner. We don't care about being able to call it "indigenous" that's why we can drop the pride when necessary and take the help we need to field the superior fighter asap.
There are a number of things that have been 'dropped' by others, that does not particularly interest us. We design and make our own ships, our own boats, our own fighter aircraft (complete with half-a-fist metal blemishes), our own tanks, our own guns and we seek to do much more, not drop them, but to achieve them.

I note with admiration your determination to reach your targets, and drop your pride, and build the superior fighter, and so on. I note also that this fearless and daring spirit imbues your efforts in all fields, including building your own ships, your own boats, your own fighter aircraft, your own tanks and your own guns, of course, with a little help, the 'help we need'; it is also instructive to see the ability to seek such help from such a wide range of helpful partners and associates, right from the 50s onwards. Now that your single-minded determination has got to bike shops in Peshawar, no doubt an awe-struck world will see more marvels emerge from your deep and wide technology. Who knows? even the staggering 800,000 plus bikes manufactured, across 38 manufacturers, might be expanded manifold. We have much to learn.

You sure the deadline isn't 3025?
It is a stupid deadline, but then, we have a stupid government. Even if it is a delayed project, don't you think it is worth it, to try and make it on our own, without stealing industrial secrets and using screwdriver technology?
 
Possible, but unlikely.

What nationalistic ego are you talking about? Or is it a pre-programmed phrase that comes out on demand?

You did notice that what you were advised is completely different from what you thought of as a response?
Possible? (Thats your 'nationalistic pre-programming' speaking, get it now?)
Please tell me how 2025 is possible when only the initial design phase has been completed yet and India will only be able to fly the 4th gen Tejas Mk-2 by 2026 (per current estimate), and still not entered production for Mk1A even. How will HAL finish detailed design phase of a 5th gen jet with 6th gen tech. I haven't even touched upon sensitive tech transfer that IAF wants, prototyping, re-prototyping, integration, testing, weapon development, FOC etc.

Perhaps what you mean is we will see another wooden truck model.
 
Come out your nationalistic ego and tell me honestly, What does your homework tell you? AMCA is going be flying by 2025?
Be respectful to Joe Shearer. He is not a rabid nationalist. Do not assume anything based solely on flags.

Possible? (Thats your 'nationalistic pre-programming' speaking, get it now?)
Please tell me how 2025 is possible when only the initial design phase has been completed yet and India will only be able to fly the 4th gen Tejas Mk-2 by 2026 (per current estimate), and still not entered production for Mk1A even. How will HAL finish detailed design phase of a 5th gen jet with 6th gen tech. I haven't even touched upon sensitive tech transfer that IAF wants, prototyping, re-prototyping, integration, testing, weapon development, FOC etc.

Perhaps what you mean is we will see another wooden truck model.
He is giving you hints but you are too blind to see them. Lay off.
 
You sure the deadline isn't 3025?
It is a stupid deadline, but then, we have a stupid government. Even if it is a delayed project, don't you think it is worth it, to try and make it on our own, without stealing industrial secrets and using screwdriver technology?
Possible? (Thats your 'nationalistic pre-programming' speaking, get it now?)
Please tell me how 2025 is possible when only the initial design phase has been completed yet and India will only be able to fly the 4th gen Tejas Mk-2 by 2026 (per current estimate), and still not entered production for Mk1A even. How will HAL finish detailed design phase of a 5th gen jet with 6th gen tech. I haven't even touched upon sensitive tech transfer that IAF wants, prototyping, re-prototyping, integration, testing, weapon development, FOC etc.

Perhaps what you mean is we will see another wooden truck model.
I can see that I am out of my depth, speaking to an aviation expert. Perhaps you are right, after all; with your knowledge and your experience, it is better that I should listen to you with the greatest respect.

Please go ahead and tell me all about wooden truck models.

Be respectful to Joe Shearer. He is not a rabid nationalist. Do not assume anything based solely on flags.


He is giving you hints but you are too blind to see them. Lay off.
;)

Doesn't matter. Kids will be kids. Youth must have its day.
 
More like 2030 it won't be as good as F-35 THOUGH!. Even Su-57 looks obsolete and outdated when u put it up against F-35.
 

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