India is a friend or foe of the Muslim world

[SherAli]

Again, please do not put your blame on Europeans. If they "stole everything", why did the whole Europe industrialize at the same time? Did UK share their "stolen stuffs" with Germany and all?

Even if they did, why did Mugahals lose the battle? As far as I know, Mughals at that time were good-for-nothing kings living in palaces built by their grandfathers, with absolutely no investment in science, technology or their military.Only interested in luxuries. They were thinkning like you are doing now - a delusion of self-fulfillment. European armies were far more advanced than them even before. Only Ottomans could contest with Europe. But after industrial revolution which Ottomans missed, they were left behind too

Listen, look at countries like Malaysia, Turkey, UAE etc. Look at how they have industrialized. Then replicate the same model in Pakistan and you can be as advanced as Germany and UK. Stop blaming for your failures on Europeans.



It is barely making any justice to itself except for a few countries like Turkey, Malaysia, Kazakhastan etc. Most muslims are killing each other and are crying about Kashmir, israel etc. at the same time. What hypocrisy.

Mughals already lost power by then and India was a land of city states basically ... with warring Nawabas ... It was finished before the British even got there. Euros have already admitted how Plassey was where their future lied upon so why should I take your opinion? Mir Jafar defected to the British side with 50,000 men. Bengal was the richest place on earth perhaps and India was the only nation home to the worlds diamond mines.

I'm not making excuses but what I've said is the truth. Muslims lost al Andulus even though they were initially pushing deep into Gaul (modern day France). They even introduced the cannon to europe yet they could never capitalize on their victories.

 

[King Solomon]

Mughals already lost power by then and India was a land of city states basically ... with warring Nawabas ... It was finished before the British even got there. Euros have already admitted how Plassey was where their future lied upon so why should I take your opinion? Mir Jafar defected to the British side with 50,000 men. Bengal was the richest place on earth perhaps and India was the only nation home to the worlds diamond mines.

I'm not making excuses but what I've said is the truth. Muslims lost al Andulus even though they were initially pushing deep into Gaul (modern day France). They even introduced the cannon to europe yet they could never capitalize on their victories.

I repeat: Industrial revolution occurred on the basis of advances in Science and Technology, which in turn caused Efficiency allowing for more per capita output.

Did Mughals have steam engine? Who invented the steam engine? Why do you not give credit where it is due? It is a fact that the indian subcontinent, be it mughals or marathas was in a big mess at the time. Science and arts were non existent back then. Your assertion that palassy was their future should be supported by evidences as well, not only speculations.

As for Muslims, it is because we do not follow the Quran and get divided over Hadiths. We should concentrate on only the Quran which can bring unity. What kept Ottomans from industrializing? Whole Europe did, Ottomans missed out. Why? Because of religious extremism and nationalist thoughts, bought about by Wahabi terrorist Mullahs and clerics which discouraged any sort of progress. It is not that we only have extremist Wahabi mullahs today. They had their fair share back then too.

 

[The SC]

They do it because third world countries like Pakistan or india doesn't do justice to themselves. Either their leaders are brainless or they consider themselves inferior or something and have completely submitted to what they might consider "western supremacy".

Just like you who comes up with one or the other excuse to hide the failures of Pakistan. Now it is the London and NY controlling commodity prices? How about Pakistan's own oil/gas reserves which I read is quite a lot. How about Pakistan's huge agricultural and commodity output? Doesn't Pakistan have any natural resources of its own or is Pakistan a sahara desert or something? Does pakistan even have to depend on london/NY controlled "prices"?

Sorry for being harsh, but failure must be accepted first before even attempting to correct and progress.



I see, as you wish to think. I just hope majority of pakistanis dont think like you.

I see you can not understand, probably your brain is blocked somehow, I am talking about the Muslim Ummah and you are singling out Pakistan.
You are probably trying to hide something, since you can not see clearly and have very small and incomplete knowledge of world affairs, your own doubts about yourself are being projected here, so please go clean your doubts by facts and come back on the forum.
Please try to learn as much as you can on world economics and where prices are controlled from, before making a fool of yourself.
Pakistan is so wealthy in natural resources that it can become one of the wealthiest countries in the world, we have posted links on this many times.
Pakistan is a success in disguise, failure is not a word we know as Muslims in general, since the potential is enormous, there might have been some upsets but not failure, otherwise we are responsible enough to have recognised it and dealt with it as such.

 

[King Solomon]

I see you can not understand, probably your brain is blocked somehow, I am talking about the Muslim Ummah and you are singling out Pakistan.
You are probably trying to hide something, since you can not see clearly and have very small and incomplete knowledge of world affairs, your own doubts about yourself are being projected here, so please go clean your doubts by facts and come back on the forum.
Pakistan is so wealthy in natural resources that it can become one of the wealthiest countries in the world, we have posted links on this many times.

^ The backward mentality like this is the cause why you can't get Kashmir. You are blinded by religious extremism and fail to see national interests. Then you blame on Europe for stealing your resources. Funny.

Better go read European history. "Those who don't pay heed to history are doomed to repeat it".

 

[Sashan]

They do it because third world countries like Pakistan or india doesn't do justice to themselves. Either their leaders are brainless or they consider themselves inferior or something and have completely submitted to what they might consider "western supremacy".

Mate - That is little harsh but I do not mind it. Care to throw some light about your quote about India? I would be interested to see a different opinion on this.

 

[King Solomon]

Mate - That is little harsh but I do not mind it. Care to throw some light about your quote about India? I would be interested to see a different opinion on this.

India less so. At least india is making some progress, albeit still being far from being a developed country.

It was mainly for Pakistan whose people can't seem to recognise what is wrong in the first place.

 

[SherAli]

I repeat: Industrial revolution occurred on the basis of advances in Science and Technology, which in turn caused Efficiency allowing for more per capita output.

Did Mughals have steam engine? Who invented the steam engine? Why do you not give credit where it is due? It is a fact that the indian subcontinent, be it mughals or marathas was in a big mess at the time. Science and arts were non existent back then. Your assertion that palassy was their future should be supported by evidences as well, not only speculations.

As for Muslims, it is because we do not follow the Quran and get divided over Hadiths. We should concentrate on only the Quran which can bring unity. What kept Ottomans from industrializing? Whole Europe did, Ottomans missed out. Why? Because of religious extremism and nationalist thoughts, bought about by Wahabi terrorist Mullahs and clerics which discouraged any sort of progress. It is not that we only have extremist Wahabi mullahs today. They had their fair share back then too.

I'm going to go with what Brooks Adams said about it bro. Before the industrial revolution which was indeed fueled from the wealth of the East and the "New World." India was in the biggest mess probably in its history at the time ... it was Muslims vs. Hindu ... Muslim vs. Sikh ... Muslim vs. Muslim ... Hindu vs. Sikh etc. And a third, more shrewd and dastardly foe won the day. This period in history is full of ahole traitors like Mir Jafar, Mir Sadiq, Asif ud Dawlah.

Read about the famine of Bengal where people were dying in the streets because of how the satanic British taxed them to death.

Before the Battle of Plassey, the iron and steel industry in England was no more advanced than that in Bengal. This is a FACT.

I'm not taking away the fact that they invented, but the unheard of looting from the East is what made it possible. The Ottomans had an opportunity to take advantage since they were right there and witnessing the revolution but they had no respect for europe. It had nothing to do with religion or even nationalism, just stupidity and being unaware of the world around them. They forgot it was innovations like gun powder that made them dominate the euros.

There is no excuse for what is going on now ... generations have passed since that era and if nations like China can now successfully compete with these oppressors, why can't Pakistan?

Also if you want to talk about religion lets not forget that when christianity ruled the day europe was backwards while the Muslims were progressive when they followed Islam.

 

[The SC]

^ The backward mentality like this is the cause why you can't get Kashmir. You are blinded by religious extremism and fail to see national interests. Then you blame on Europe for stealing your resources. Funny.

Better go read European history. "Those who don't pay heed to history are doomed to repeat it".

Pakistan would like you to come forward with your wannabe advanced mentality and get Kashmir back for them, as a true Muslim you will do yourself and Pakistan a favour and the whole Muslim world will declare you as the Khalife.

 

[King Solomon]

I'm going to go with what Brooks Adams said about it bro. Before the industrial revolution which was indeed fueled from the wealth of the East and the "New World." India was in the biggest mess probably in its history at the time ... it was Muslims vs. Hindu ... Muslim vs. Sikh ... Muslim vs. Muslim ... Hindu vs. Sikh etc. And a third, more shrewd and dastardly foe won the day. This period in history is full of ahole traitors like Mir Jafar, Mir Sadiq, Asif ud Dawlah.

Read about the famine of Bengal where people were dying in the streets because of how the satanic British taxed them to death.

Before the Battle of Plassey, the iron and steel industry in England was no more advanced than that in Bengal. This is a FACT.

I'm not taking away the fact that they invented, but the unheard of looting from the East is what made it possible. The Ottomans had an opportunity to take advantage since they were right there and witnessing the revolution but they had no respect for europe. It had nothing to do with religion or even nationalism, just stupidity and being unaware of the world around them. They forgot it was innovations like gun powder that made them dominate the euros.

There is no excuse for what is going on now ... generations have passed since that era and if nations like China can now successfully compete with these oppressors, why can't Pakistan?

The thing I find perplexing about your theory is that not only Britain, but the whole Europe, Russia and US industrialized. Even Japan did. Did British share their 'lootings' with them all? Surely this cannot be so.

Think of it this way:

Let us accept for a moment your theory is true. British indeed stole all that it could and rose from there.

But what did US do?

What did Russia do?

What did Germany, Japan do?

Surely Britain did not 'share' their tech with everyone. So how did these nations rise up?

Answer: Copying the innovation of GB. They were aware that they will have tokeep up with the world. They saw that GB was industrializing at a rapid pace. They saw the need for them copying GB's technology and production methods. And they did.

This is the cue: Adapting to change. Pakistan and the whole world of Islam WILL have to adopt to change if it wants to survive and prosper. Otherwise situation will remain the same - muslims killing muslims. Pakistan has to develop itself economically, only then a happy, prosperous and militarily powerful Pakistan can exist. At this point, concentrating on Kashmir would be an impediment for the economy as it will require high military expenditure. This is why i think this is something pakistan cannot afford. Pakistan has even fallen far behind india.

Well, that is what I am saying all this time! Don't waste energy on Kashmir but concentrate on developing the land you already have... Pakistan is bigger than most european countries. You already have link with China via Pakistan's kashmir, have tons of natuarl resources.

Rather develop yourself economically so that population can live in peace, prosperity and this will automatically guarantee a powerful military.

Pakistan would like you to come forward with your wannabe advanced mentality and get Kashmir back for them, as a true Muslim you will do yourself and Pakistan a favour and the whole Muslim world will declare you as the Khalife.

Go back to your taliban hideout.

 

[SherAli]

Well Britain is where it really began and then it spread ... Ottomans could've adapted and with their vast resources and the fact that their obsolete armies were still a threat (they were able to beat Austria in a recent war) it could've been an answer to their internal and external problems ...

Japanese adopted it and so did other east Asian countries, to fight off the white man originally if IIRC.

Muslims have a problem with leadership if you don't already know. Pakistani leaders are more interested in robbing their people instead of helping their country. They learned the wrong lesson from the british.

 

[King Solomon]

Well Britain is where it really began and then it spread ... Ottomans could've adapted and with their vast resources and the fact that their obsolete armies were still a threat (they were able to beat Austria in a recent war) it could've been an answer to their internal and external problems ...

Japanese adopted it and so did other east Asian countries, to fight off the white man originally if IIRC.

Muslims have a problem with leadership if you don't already know. Pakistani leaders are more interested in robbing their people instead of helping their country. They learned the wrong lesson from the british.

That is the crux of the problem.. then why is everyone blaming Europeans here? Even if europeans did not come, i can guarantee indian subcontinent would have been in a much worse state.

They did what anybody would have done. They worked for their interests.

But is pakistan working for its national interest? No, not so far as ican see

Malaysia, china, indonesia, singapore etc. were all colonised by the same powers who had colonised india. Look where they are now and look where the indian subcontinent is now.

 

[The SC]

The thing I find perplexing about your theory is that not only Britain, but the whole Europe, Russia and US industrialized. Even Japan did. Did British share their 'lootings' with them all? Surely this cannot be so.

Think of it this way:

Let us accept for a moment your theory is true. British indeed stole all that it could and rose from there.

But what did US do?

What did Russia do?

What did Germany, Japan do?

Surely Britain did not 'share' their tech with everyone. So how did these nations rise up?

Answer: Copying the innovation of GB. They were aware that they will have tokeep up with the world. They saw that GB was industrializing at a rapid pace. They saw the need for them copying GB's technology and production methods. And they did.

This is the cue: Adapting to change. Pakistan and the whole world of Islam WILL have to adopt to change if it wants to survive and prosper. Otherwise situation will remain the same - muslims killing muslims. Pakistan has to develop itself economically, only then a happy, prosperous and militarily powerful Pakistan can exist. At this point, concentrating on Kashmir would be an impediment for the economy as it will require high military expenditure. This is why i think this is something pakistan cannot afford. Pakistan has even fallen far behind india.

Well, that is what I am saying all this time! Don't waste energy on Kashmir but concentrate on developing the land you already have... Pakistan is bigger than most european countries. You already have link with China via Pakistan's kashmir, have tons of natuarl resources.

Rather develop yourself economically so that population can live in peace, prosperity and this will automatically guarantee a powerful military.

It never hit your mind that the Christian church was central in stealing Muslim knowledge and spreading it on its sons while keeping the Muslims at wars.
So you really need some education at least like a Taliban whom by the way many of them hold Phd's in Sciences on top of scholarships in Islamic religion.
You are exposing your new arrival on the world scene and your 100 years behind the curtain of atheism. You are trying to westernise yourselves as quickly as possible forgetting the Shah's experience.
Your Idols are the Christian West And India eventhough they are both doomed to fail miserably. I conclude, you must be a failure.
So, do yourself and this forum a favour by contributing substantially and not by arguing for the sake of your inflated ego of a wannabe knowledgeable person.

 

[King Solomon]

It never hit your mind that the Christian church was central in stealing Muslim knowledge and spreading it on its sons while keeping the Muslims at wars.
So you really need some education at least like a Taliban whom by the way many of them hold Phd's in Sciences on top of scholarships in Islamic religion.
You are exposing your new arrival on the world scene and your 100 years behind the curtain of atheism. You are trying to westernise yourselves as quickly as possible forgetting the Shah's experience.
Your Idols are the Christian West And India eventhough they are both doomed to fail miserably. I conclude, you must be a failure.
So, do yourself and this forum a favour by contributing substantially and not by arguing for the sake of your inflated ego of a wannabe knowledgeable person.

I do not believe in conspiracy theories like you seem to do, without substantive evidence. As for your rants, it is your insecurity which made you resort to personal attacks.

As I said, go back to your taliban hideout. You will fit better there.

 

[The SC]

I do not believe in conspiracy theories like you seem to do, without substantive evidence. As for your rants, it is your insecurity which made you resort to personal attacks.

As I said, go back to your taliban hideout. You will fit better there.

It is all about conspiracies on the part of the western Judeo-christian against all others for world hegemony, and guess who is leading the world, the less sociable, most savage of them all the Nordics who were a few centuries ago the most backward nations on earth and thanks to Islamic enlightenment in good faith, they turned everything to their advantage but they couldn't get rid of their savage and barbaric instincts.
You just came out of a dark hole and you want to teach, enlighten yourself first, go get information of the role of the church from the crusades till now through all the wars in Europe, Africa, Asia the middle east and much more.
And get some balls to confront Taliban if you know who I mean. (you probably do not even know what the word Taliban means) your Ex USSR had run back home confronting them and today's "most powerful" nation the US is negotiating with them and seeking a way out from their trap.
You started with personal attacks again so you better go get some education for yourself and the country you are hiding behind its flag, or you'll get some bad treatment anywhere you might hide.
You are a Kazakh, I know how you think, very backward and warlike mentality (mostly barbaric, hence your affinity with the the western mentality full of lies and ignorance). but here you will meet your Waterloo. do you know how to dance lezinga?

 

[King Solomon]

It is all about conspiracies on the part of the western Judeo-christian against all others for world hegemony, and guess who is leading the world, the less sociable, most savage of them all the Nordics who were a few centuries ago the most backward nations on earth and thanks to Islamic enlightenment in good faith, they turned everything to their advantage but they couldn't get rid of their savage and barbaric instincts.
You just came out of a dark hole and you want to teach, enlighten yourself first, go get information of the role of the church from the crusades till now through all the wars in Europe, Africa, Asia the middle east and much more.
And get some balls to confront Taliban if you know who I mean. (you probably do not even know what the word Taliban means) your Ex USSR had run back home confronting them and today's "most powerful" nation the US is negotiating with them and seeking a way out from their trap.
You started with personal attacks again so you better go get some education for yourself and the country you are hiding behind its flag, or you'll get some bad treatment anywhere you might hide.
You are a Kazakh, I know how you think, very backward and warlike mentality (mostly barbaric, hence your affinity with the the western mentality full of lies and ignorance). but here you will meet your Waterloo. do you know how to dance lezinga?

Go back to your taliban hideout. You will fit well among your buddies there.

And look what avatar you have. lol. That demonstrates your ambitions very well.