India-Iran, Qatar SeaPipeline Not Possible without Pakistan's Approval

[45'22']

Dude, you can discuss it to death in online forums, but if the things could be built based opon these online discussion, india would already have built a manned colony on Pluto as well.

Lets be realistic here, india has three choices:

1) Obtain Pakistan's approval for this gas pipeline (which she ain't gonna get unsless she stops the cross-border terrorism in Pakistan)

2) Build the pipeline few kilometers away from Pakistan's EEZ, sparing few billion dollar extra should not be that big a problem for economic Supapowa india, right?

3) Say goodbye to this pipeline and import the gas via ships/tankers ,

I am being realistic only....
If you can prove me wrong with credible sources then please be my guest.....even I m not interested in stretching it further with debates and discussions ...


Btw.....Pakistan has already given its approval for the pipeline that runs through it to Iran....it's India which is rejecting this...

PREAMBLE TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE LAW OF THE SEA

3. The delineation of the course for the laying of such pipelines on the continental shelf is subject to the consent of the coastal State.

We can define a curve for the cable and it is our due right according to legislation. We can prevent India from laying this cable in any area we choose and it can be the outer most mile of our owned territory which will render the pipeline in-feasible. So you need us and cannot escape our consent.

You can define a curve true that .....
You can prevent India from laying the cables....No
Please mention the first 2 clauses also which states that the coastal state can't impede the construction and maintenance of a pipeline

 

[coffee_cup]

I am being realistic only....
If you can prove me wrong with credible sources then please be my guest.....even I m not interested in stretching it further with debates and discussions ...

Ok, so realistically speaking when do you see this pipeline being completed?

2018?
2020?
2025?
2050?
2100?
NEVER?

 

[graphican]

I am being realistic only....
If you can prove me wrong with credible sources then please be my guest.....even I m not interested in stretching it further with debates and discussions ...


Btw.....Pakistan has already given its approval for the pipeline that runs through it to Iran....it's India which is rejecting this...


You can define a curve true that .....
You can prevent India from laying the cables....No
Please mention the first 2 clauses also which states that the coastal state can't impede the construction and maintenance of a pipeline

Not an expert but I think what you are saying is true. Any country has right to lay down cables and that holds true for India. But it is delineation which is causing the trouble.

Now I am also getting why India was trying to bypass Pakistani waters in the original design and was laying entire cable outside its EEC - but now EEC is stretched and India cannot do the same. There might be depth issues causing increased pressure on the gas-pipeline, excessively long cable or re-pressurization requirements which are rendering the pipeline unfeasible. Not sure - but your own country is saying it is not possible without Pakistan's consent.

 

[45'22']

Not an expert but I think what you are saying is true. Any country has right to lay down cables and that holds true for India. But it is delineation which is causing the trouble.

Now I am also getting why India was trying to bypass Pakistani waters in the original design and was laying entire cable outside its EEC - but now EEC is stretched and India cannot do the same. There might be depth issues causing increased pressure on the gas-pipeline, excessively long cable or re-pressurization requirements which are rendering the pipeline unfeasible. Not sure - but your own country is saying it is not possible without Pakistan's consent.

The conditions are implying that way......
Let's see how things unfold

Ok, so realistically speaking when do you see this pipeline being completed?

2018?
2020?
2025?
2050?
2100?
NEVER?

2025
If delays occur then 2030

 

[NIA]

The conditions are implying that way......
Let's see how things unfold


2025
If delays occur then 2030

Do You think work will go smoothly due to sanctions?? just asking or is there any alternative?

 

[Emmie]

Coastal state will give the route or path.....it can't approve or disapprove the construction

I have posted the entire article above.....read the first 2 clauses of continental shelf

What if coastal state doesn't agree to proposed delineation of pipeline? Does it stand approved and ready to be implemented?

The problem is we always read stuff of our own interest and interpret it as deem fit.

Article 58 has a lot more to say, don't overlook clause 2 and 3, especially 3.

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index

58(3) clearly provides that all states shall comply with laws and regulations adopted by coastal states. And according to laws of Pakistan (Same are the laws in India) a third state shall have to obtain Pakistan's government consent for the delineation of the course.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/IND_1976_Act.pdf


Article 79 of UNCLOS provides the same.

Article 79(3)The delineation of the course for the laying of such pipelines on the continental shelf is subject to the consent of the coastal State.

UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index


If coastal state shows some concerns on proposed delineation coarse then it's a conflict and in case of conflict the project is at peace until conflict is resolved. Article 59 addresses conflicts.

I have said it earlier and I'll say the same this business is all about good diplomatic relations.

 

[45'22']

Do You think work will go smoothly due to sanctions?? just asking or is there any alternative?

I don't think we are worrying about sanctions at this point of time.....if it were for sanctions then we would have never involved Iran.....

I think it will go smoothly because USA needs an ally in SA to keep China at bay and their best bet would be India besides I believe they P5 + 1 will reach a deal sooner.....I don't think Iran will shoot in her own leg by going for nukes NOW

So...2030 looks good
There is another pipeline which we may also go for....that is Russia to India via China....

It's a little early to presume things....
in 1 or 2 years things will get more clear

 

[coffee_cup]

2025
If delays occur then 2030

And that in Pakistan's EEZ without Pakistan's approval ?

 

[NIA]

I don't think we are worrying about sanctions at this point of time.....if it were for sanctions then we would have never involved Iran.....

I think it will go smoothly because USA needs an ally in SA to keep China at bay and their best bet would be India besides I believe they P5 + 1 will reach a deal sooner.....I don't think Iran will shoot in her own leg by going for nukes NOW

So...2030 looks good
There is another pipeline which we may also go for....that is Russia to India via China....

It's a little early to presume things....
in 1 or 2 years things will get more clear

I think Russia to India via china is Gas/ petroleum pipe line. It was mentioned somewhere in this forum.

 

[45'22']

What if coastal state doesn't agree to proposed delineation of pipeline? Does it stand approved and ready to be implemented?

The problem is we always read stuff of our own interest and interpret it as deem fit.

Article 58 has a lot more to say, don't overlook clause 2 and 3, especially 3.

1. In the exclusive economic zone, all States, whether coastal or land-locked, enjoy, subject to the relevant provisions of this Convention, the freedoms referred to in article 87 of navigation and overflight and of the laying of submarine cables and pipelines, and other internationally lawful uses of the sea related to these freedoms, such as those associated with the operation of ships, aircraft and submarine cables and pipelines, and compatible with the other provisions of this Convention.

2. Articles 88 to 115 and other pertinent rules of international law apply to the exclusive economic zone in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

3. In exercising their rights and performing their duties under this Convention in the exclusive economic zone, States shall have due regard to the rights and duties of the coastal State and shall comply with the laws and regulations adopted by the coastal State in accordance with the provisions of this Convention and other rules of international law in so far as they are not incompatible with this Part.

UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index

58(3) clearly provides that all states shall comply with laws and regulations adopted by coastal states. And according to laws of Pakistan (Same are the laws in India) a third state shall have to obtain Pakistan's government consent for the delineation of the course.

http://www.un.org/depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/IND_1976_Act.pdf


Article 79 of UNCLOS provides the same.

Article 79(3)The delineation of the course for the laying of such pipelines on the continental shelf is subject to the consent of the coastal State.

UNCLOS and Agreement on Part XI - Preamble and frame index


If coastal states shows some concerns on proposed delineation coarse then it's a conflict and in case of conflict the project is at peace until conflict is resolved. Article 59 addresses conflicts.

I have said it earlier and I'll say the same this business is all about good diplomatic relations.

Yep....by not agreeing to the path and by using delineation ,Pakistan can sure delay this project...

Off course the pipeline will abide the laws for the clause 3 of article 58 .....though I don't know what the 2nd clause of article 58 exactly means

 

[vinay]

States enjoy the rights of laying and operating submarine cables and pipelines. Whereas in theterritorial sea the Coastal State can determine the conditions for such laying and operation, and,impose taxes as transit fees, in the Continental Shelf and the EEZ zones, the Coastal State canonly object to such undertakings if they seriously obstruct the rights of exploration andexploitation of the natural resources of those areas.


I could have provided a link but I don't have required post count.

 

[45'22']

And that in Pakistan's EEZ without Pakistan's approval ?

Yeah I am counting that.....that's why I said 2030 with delays

 

[Emmie]

Yep....by not agreeing to the path and by using delineation ,Pakistan can sure delay this project...

Off course the pipeline will abide the laws for the clause 3 of article 58 .....though I don't know what the 2nd clause of article 58 exactly means

58(2) refers to the variety of articles in next sections which explain rights duties of all states whether coastal or others in bit details.

 

[coffee_cup]

Yeah I am counting that.....that's why I said 2030 with delays

Quite ambitious I would say, a pipeline in Pakistan's EEZ without Pakistan's approval in 15 years time.

Good luck with that,

May I ask on what are you banking?

 

[45'22']

Quite ambitious I would say, a pipeline in Pakistan's EEZ without Pakistan's approval in 15 years time.

Good luck with that,

May I ask on what are you banking?

Not that ambitious
The project would have normally taken 10 years.....
I am not banking on anything....