INDIA in Serious troubles!! Kashmir unrest and worsening situation for indian muslims throughout cou

[The_Showstopper]

Sir did i mention isi or pakistan..
I told this guys do nething for few bucks.they may be paid by sepratist or local politicis or may even be the raw.


No dear i have been to a hitel in shrinagar the bell boy had tod me how he had been approached by some local religious leader to wave pakistan flag..for whic he had refused.

Please ignore our local Sanghi SarthakGanguly. His hate for anything non-hindu(Especially the moozlums) is well known. Be it a kashmiri muslim or a Bihari Muslim he hates them all. No words of yours will suffice him..

 

[Joe Shearer]

The biggest problem in Kashmir is religion. A kemal is needed there. BJP also seems to have fallen on love with kursi in jnk at any cost. Only Indians will pay for their folly.


Not sure you are aware but there is an unofficial embargo on the reporting of non military deaths in the valley. Even CRPF deaths or the deaths of informers are glossed over. Only army deaths are reported. So that morale is not hampered.

What I mean is that the targeted killings happen all the time. Just that they are barely reported on the national press.


Imagine if India concedes and gives Kashmir full autonomy is secession of illegal.

Do you know what will happen?

It will be a victory of blatant Muslim majoritarianism. Disgusted Hindus will then spontaneously cleanse all Muslims from rest of the States in response and no body would be able to prevent all of India from becoming Muslimfrei. That will be the end of Bharatvarsha. Even the end of the good name of Dharma. Hinduism, Buddhism etc will be bracketed info the same category as that of conquering faiths. In essence, the end of Dharma.

This is a confusing and perhaps a confused post.

1. What do you mean by full autonomy?
   1. Are you aware of the extent of the ceding of sovereignty by Hari Singh? He DID NOT cede full sovereignty.
   2. Are you aware of the recognition of this in the Indian Constitution?
   3. Are you aware of the recognition of this in the J&K Constitution?
2. Why is the creeping erosion of autonomy justified?
3. Why is the creeping erosion of autonomy considered illegal according to some legal luminaries?
4. Why is 'secession' being equated to 1947 style autonomy?

Then there are the Sturm und Drang bits in your rhetoric. We'll come to that later.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Please ignore our local Sanghi SarthakGanguly. His hate for anything non-hindu(Especially the moozlums) is well known. Be it a kashmiri muslim or a Bihari Muslim he hates them all. No words of yours will suffice him..

LOL.

Hatred for anything non Hindu? LOL. I hate parts of all faiths and religions. Here - let me write it in plain words. I will not delete this post, so you can come back to it later. There are parts of Quran, Bible, Gita I like, and there are parts that I hate. I hate all religions to an extent - some more than others. Not necessarily the people. I have many an unkind grudges against Hinduism as it now exists as well.

Unfortunately, I can't pick and chose parts of Abrahamic faiths, I can do that with Oriental philosophies.This does not make the latter better than the former. But just more manageable. The lack of the 'final' word allows for a reasonable argument. Even on core religious issues, there can be debates for the latter. Not so the former. Therein lies the problem.

Now get back to bashing me in person to suit yourself.

• What do you mean by full autonomy?
  1. Are you aware of the extent of the ceding of sovereignty by Hari Singh? He DID NOT cede full sovereignty.
  2. Are you aware of the recognition of this in the Indian Constitution?
  3. Are you aware of the recognition of this in the J&K Constitution?

• Why is the creeping erosion of autonomy justified?

• Why is the creeping erosion of autonomy considered illegal according to some legal luminaries?

• Why is 'secession' being equated to 1947 style autonomy?

Sincere question. Do you personally believe that returning to a state of Senior Abdullah's time will solve the present problems? This is not meant to be rhetorical...

 

[Joe Shearer]

LOL.

Hatred for anything non Hindu? LOL. I hate parts of all faiths and religions. Here - let me write it in plain words. I will not delete this post, so you can come back to it later. There are parts of Quran, Bible, Gita I like, and there are parts that I hate. I hate all religions to an extent - some more than others. Not necessarily the people. I have many an unkind grudges against Hinduism as it now exists as well.

Unfortunately, I can't pick and chose parts of Abrahamic faiths, I can do that with Oriental philosophies.This does not make the latter better than the former. But just more manageable. The lack of the 'final' word allows for a reasonable argument. Even on core religious issues, there can be debates for the latter. Not so the former. Therein lies the problem.

Now get back to bashing me in person to suit yourself.

Sincere question. Do you personally believe that returning to a state of Senior Abdullah's time will solve the present problems? This is not meant to be rhetorical...

No, I don't.

I believe that there are a set of wankers who will look at anything, even the most high-minded and idealistic act of atonement as a tactical opportunity, and who will immediately come out with a new whine. There is nothing as sickening as a Kashmiri in full flow of self-pity and unique tragedy overwhelming anything else that the earth has seen. In that sense, I am careful to ensure that I never parrot the opinions of the regressive left.

But it will clear up the constitutional mess, and it will show that we have clean hands.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

But it will clear up the constitutional mess, and it will show that we have clean hands.

Worth giving a try. But I guess the BJP's experiment in Kashmir will end in a spectacular failure. I don't see them doing anything positive there yet. Except for some half hearted push for resettling Pandits back in the Valley.

The Army has done a commendable job, but they get the brickbats no matter what they do.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Worth giving a try. But I guess the BJP's experiment in Kashmir will end in a spectacular failure. I don't see them doing anything positive there yet. Except for some half hearted push for resettling Pandits back in the Valley.

The Army has done a commendable job, but they get the brickbats no matter what they do.

The Army has done a brilliant job. However, there should be a process of public enquiry, hosted by the Army. There should also be accountability.

It's the CRPF and the other paramilitaries, the BSF, as and when they are deployed, who cause the maximum damage to India's reputation in Kashmir.

It's also the Kashmir Police. Their open savagery of late has become completely out of control.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

It's the CRPF and the other paramilitaries, the BSF, as and when they are deployed, who cause the maximum damage to India's reputation in Kashmir.

It's also the Kashmir Police. Their open savagery of late has become completely out of control.

Agreed.

But to the locals all are 'fouji'. The reputation once tarnished, remains as such. You know that. Also the army does not like 'policing' duties either. Tricky situation.

The JnK police is thoroughly corrupt. The Army even suspected them to be thoroughly infiltrated by the enemy as well. Most operations were done without their knowledge, to maintain secrecy.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Agreed.

But to the locals all are 'fouji'. The reputation once tarnished, remains as such. You know that. Also the army does not like 'policing' duties either. Tricky situation.

Several points:

1. They are projected as 'all fouji' for definite propaganda purposes.
2. There is a small group of perhaps 2,000 linked activists who undertake this propaganda.
3. These people are loosely grouped around the Tehreek.
4. They form the overground support mechanism for the underground.
5. They do not lack funds.

This is based on my personal research and findings, and on the information shared by the bulk of Kashmiris whom I meet, who are interested in

1. Peace, and a freedom from unexpected, and unplanned violence from either side;
2. Good governance from the State Government;
3. Straightforward, transparent and clear dealings by the Central Government; this has been lacking;
4. Economic and educational opportunities of choice;
5. Fair elections and a fair administrative set-up;
6. Less corrupt wretches in day to day administrative set up.

 

[Arsalan]

There is a difference in nature of these populations. One part because of magic number 370 and other you may not like but external. There are factors which drive nature and few sections, geographies and histories are more susceptible to extremism than others. Off course in Kashmir, they find enough material to burn. The semblance can be seen when ghetto-isation happens even in deep of India and people are cut from main stream.

I belong to Aligarh and I have seen the difference from close quarters.

We have too many muslims in world, not everyone feels like ISIS or associate with them. We need no generalization.

PS: No offence taken, none expected either.

Sorry i was not able to get that 370 number point, cant connect it to anything in my memory. At least can put my finger on it!

As for the "generalization" that is exactly my point. Why is that the small number of Muslims in Kashmir (compared to rest of India) according to you are motivated by religious values to be united with Pakistan while the rest of the Muslims are all OK with India? There MUST be something wrong in that divide. (actually, it was religion that mainly decided the partition so i agree you are right, Religion is what makes them our part, we have been saying this from day one. The Muslim majority areas were to be part to be Pakistan. The details are of trivial importance here as i am not basing my argument on that).

We both know that we cannot compare these to ISIL or other terrorist groups like this. There is no real comparison of the numbers and also the support base is totally different. There is something wrong here, politically, geographically or religiously,,,, may be all. Whatever it is, be sure that it wont resolve ITSELF and something will have to be done by concerned parties to settle this issue.

 

[-xXx-]

Sorry i was not able to get that 370 number point, cant connect it to anything in my memory.

By 370 I mean article 370 which further secluded the state from main stream India.

As for the "generalization" that is exactly my point. What is that the small number of Muslims in Kashmir (compared to rest of India) accordingly to you are motivated by religious values to be united with Pakistan while the rest of the Muslims are all OK with India? There MUST be something wrong in that divide. (actually, it was religion that mainly decided the partition so i agree you are right, Religion is what makes them our part, we have been saying this from day one. The Muslim majority areas were to be part to be Pakistan. The details are of trivial importance here as i am not basing my argument on that)
We both know that we cannot compare these to ISIL or other terrorist groups like this. There is no real comparison of the numbers and also the support base is totally different. There is something wrong here, politically, geographically or religiously,,,, may be all. Whatever it is, be sure that it wont resolve ITSELF and something will have to be done by concerned parties to settle this issue.

Please refer below one of my post to Joe. The one you read was made in haste.

Secondly, at the time of partition, though kashmiris shared the common religion with you, they refuse to be your part. Using religion now and that too extreme one is not a good strategy since it has its own downfall and you can easily witness that in Pakistan.

But then we totally reject two nation theory while you may advocate so. We believe different communities can survive together and whoever say otherwise is extremist with hidden agenda.

I can live with you Arsalan, very easily. i dont see myself crying for partition just because you have different faith.

Seems like it, even when I re-read it, I realize there are lot many missing dots.

Perhaps the reason being, Arsalan left an open ended question to me and that made me left an open ended response.

Radicalization gets more easier when people are cut from main stream. Article 370 and terrorism factor in valley has caused that seclusion of kashmiri youth thus they become more susceptible to tutoring from crooks. The geography of area and history associated with it has made the propagandist task much easier.

That's why though we have muslims outside Kashmir, the threat of radicalization is much more in muslims youth of Kashmir. The same analogy, though of lessor extent, can be seen between muslims living in ghettos vs muslims living in a mix with other communities. Kashmir has become that ghetto of India.

I hope this time I have done a better job to pass on my message to you.

 

[Hellfire]

1. Current Situation in Kashmir is worrying India very much. Muslim separatist groups are present in area and attacking Indian ARMY very hard.
   
   Indian ARMY has so far no war experience with Gorilla Fighters. Kashmir Jihad is a noble cause for muslims all around the world and it is gaining in power. Soon Jammu Kashmir will become free from Indian Terrorism. InshaAllah.
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   Lt. Gen. Satish Kumar Dua pays tribute to soldier Mohan Nath Goswami, who who was killed in a gunfight with militants in Jammu and Kashmir’s Kupwara district.
   
   
   2. Muslims in India facing racism everywhere in India!!!
   
   Indian muslims are facing hindoo racisim starting from children play grounds. Hindoo stop their children to play with muslim children. Harted Hindoo bacame more racist since MODI is in power.
   
   Indian muslim engineers are less than 1% of all the indian engineers who have been sent abroad for Jobs by indian Govt.
   
   No matter what if it is buying property or living in hindoo area they face racism and feel unsecure as all Hindoo put pressure on muslims.
   
   Killings of people who eat cow meat are common now. Shame that United States and Europe is supporting India instead of all those crimes against indian muslims.

Source: Siasat PK

Sir.

A poorly written article and pure non-sense! The author is right when (s)he says Indian Army does not know Gorilla warfare since we have experience in guerrilla warfare!!!

Poorly articulated and inaccurate, basically meant for boosting morale of ignorants and emotional, and an example of an article which, when posted, is a sure attraction for troll fest.

 

[Dandpatta]

"Indian Army has so far no war experience with Gorilla Fighters".

Once I read that line, I knew the cerebral quality of the author of that report.

 

[Arsalan]

By 370 I mean article 370 which further secluded the state from main stream India.

So that is it,, that is the "political" part of problem. Blaming some "tutors" wont make this go away. Just like many other draconian laws in that region cant be forgotten. I would say again, this problem wont resolve itself no matter how much we want to ignore it, ultimately the concerned parties will have to resolve this issue.

Please refer below one of my post to Joe. The one you read was made in haste.

Yeah i have read that too.

Secondly, at the time of partition, though Kashmirs shared the common religion with you, they refuse to be your part. Using religion now and that too extreme one is not a good strategy since it has its own downfall and you can easily witness that in Pakistan.

That my friend is again what we chose to "believe". I can respect what you believe in but that do not makes it right. They refused to be our part and are fighting till today due to some unexplained reasons, explained perhaps, lets just label them terrorists and extremists and chose to ignore all the facts.

But then we totally reject two nation theory while you may advocate so. We believe different communities can survive together and whoever say otherwise is extremist with hidden agenda.

I can live with you Arsalan, very easily. i dont see myself crying for partition just because you have different faith.

Sure we can live together but will that make our religion and beliefs and culture one? I am afraid it wont. The truth is that the founding fathers knew that our people wont ever be as secular as the west (and i say OUR). There always was and will be a divide based on religion and even cast. That hold true for both Indians and Pakistanis. Heck there are divides created by our self even in our own religion (Shia Sunni/Hindhu cast system) how can we say that there wont be any divide and difference based on religion itself? That is NOT suited to our culture or nature. Yes, learning to coexist would help us all but still it will be a different think and still not means that the differences have ceased to exist. You see the problems in India these days (if you chose so) i wont go on to mention all that as that is not my point and i am not to point out the problems in or with India. I have my own country to worry about. But i will like to add that the two nation theory was a well though and well formulated policy.

"Indian Army has so far no war experience with Gorilla Fighters".

Once I read that line, I knew the cerebral quality of the author of that report.

Gorilla fighters, yes---may be.
Gorilla fighting as in urban warfare, No.

 

[The_Showstopper]

LOL.

Hatred for anything non Hindu? LOL. I hate parts of all faiths and religions. Here - let me write it in plain words. I will not delete this post, so you can come back to it later. There are parts of Quran, Bible, Gita I like, and there are parts that I hate. I hate all religions to an extent - some more than others. Not necessarily the people. I have many an unkind grudges against Hinduism as it now exists as well.

Unfortunately, I can't pick and chose parts of Abrahamic faiths, I can do that with Oriental philosophies.This does not make the latter better than the former. But just more manageable. The lack of the 'final' word allows for a reasonable argument. Even on core religious issues, there can be debates for the latter. Not so the former. Therein lies the problem.

Now get back to bashing me in person to suit yourself. .

You can claim anything you like but someone rightly said "Action speak louder than words", I hope the posters in here will soon realize that.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Action speak louder than words

Yes. Latest peshkash being Orlando. Actions. Yesterday, closer home also some Islamists were put to rest in Kashmir by CRPF. Religious fanatics like you should have no place in civilized society.

Posters here are of little interest to me. The countrymen know better.