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INDIA in Serious troubles!! Kashmir unrest and worsening situation for indian muslims throughout cou

Oh so it is all part of a grand conspiracy. Dear understand this, the ISIS kids beheading people or the Afghan Kids pulling the trigger are all labeled terrorists, recognizes as terrorists, bombed and killed like terrorists.

So they were not kids, they were not tutored, and that were their inherent behavior to behead?

So its all fine till they are bombed like terrorists?

Whoa, I am taken aback. What are you arguing about?

So what will you call the Kashmiri kids waving Pakistan flag?

Misguided youth whose future is being spoiled by dirty minds for lust of power.

Stupid and insane goons?

No, they are just kids. Goons are those minds who are tutoring them to waste their life and keep flagging pakistan while pakistan is not able to help their own kids.

If you are accepting and defining the ISIS or Afghan kids based on what they do so these Kashmir kids are also be labeled as Pakistan loving population.

Pakistan loving? For what?

How come these kids who never saw pakistan develop this pakistan love? Religious bigotry?

I know no kid who give a damn to who is at government.

Sir the fact remains that despite the growing Indian power and influence and the fact that they have managed to somewhat silence the issue on international level, the ground realities remain the same.

Yes the ground realities remains the same. Misguided propaganda at work. More lives gonna waste.

Pakistan flag along with ISIS flags will be hurled, world will not give two hoot to religious bigotry but people sitting on other side will enjoy seeing how young kashmiri kids are wasting their lives and keeping themselves uneducated to further their propaganda.

It is something that we have discussed to death on numerous occasion and there cant ever be an agreement on this. Both sides will remain rigid with there stance.

Yes there can not be an agreement between who use kids to further their own goals and who feel sorry to see kids being pushed into religious bigotry.

I feel proud and happy

I feel worried and sorry to see young lives going down the drain.

No, i feel sad for them as well as for there condition that made them do so!!

No, you feel like hey we still got chance. These kids will ruin their life to make me happy. May be someday I will avenge BDesh by Kashmir.
 
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Wow, i had no idea that the situation there is so bad the people will go out killing others for as low as 10000 Rs. Sad Indeed. I though i would enjoy such a list but this makes me sad. Quite bad situation.
Separatists have run out of money since direct support for them from Pakistan had to be stopped under US pressure.

Even then, killing is very rare. Mostly the non Muslims are evicted from their houses and neighbors 'help' them by buying that promptly at a throwaway price.
 
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So this is your source -- Wikipedia

They are figures that have been quoted so often that they are widely believed to be true: almost 100,000 dead Kashmiri civilians and 10,000 people who have disappeared in the last two decades. From public meetings in small villages to TV studios, from online pages to newspaper reports, these figure are cited and printed, used to stir emotions and silence voices in Kashmiri society, even presented to visiting ambassadors and printed in petitions to the UN. Except, nobody bothers to explain just how these figures were arrived at.

TOI accessed Jammu & Kashmir government documents to arrive at the truth behind the urban legend. Collected between January 1990 and April 2011, the records are comprehensive and give year-wise breakup of all violent incidents in the state, the nature of the acts of violence, the number of people killed, and also the circumstances that led to the deaths.

Here's what the data says. In the last 21 years, 43,460 people have been killed in the Kashmir insurgency. Of these, 21,323 are militants, 13,226 civilians killed by militants, 3,642 civilians killed by security forces, and 5,369 policemen killed by militants. The 21,323 militants were killed in operations by security forces and include both Kashmiri and foreign militants. And of the 5,369 members of the security forces, around 1,500 are Kashmiri policemen.

The government has collated the figures of civilians killed by security forces since 1990: it lists 3,642 people. The numbers vary from a high of 539 civilians killed in 1990, the year in which 51 people were massacred by the CRPF in just one incident when it fired at a crowd of protesters on a bridge at Gaw Kadal in downtown Srinagar, to 120 protesters killed across the state in firing by the police and paramilitary forces in the summer of 2010.

The records also show another slaughter that has gone on ceaselessly since 1990, a slaughter that nobody comments on, nobody laments: of Kashmiris killed by militants since 1990. Of the 13,226 civilians killed by militants, 11,461 were shot and 1,765 died in grenade blasts and explosions.

These deaths are the ugly truth that Kashmir has learnt to ignore. The civilians killed fall into a black hole that Kashmiri society never discusses, remembers or protests against. They include two young sisters, Arifa (16) and Akhtara (18), who on January 31, 2011, were dragged out of their one-room house in downtown Sopore and killed. Akhtara took four wounds on her face and Arifa was shot in the chest. They were accused of being "immoral."

The moderate, the mukhbir (informer), the political activist or the unlucky bystander, these deaths are forgotten the day after they occur. But the central message is remembered: if you cross the line, you shall pay with your life. This message has been received and understood by the average Kashmiri. The knowledge that you can be killed anytime, anywhere, and the fear of the hidden assassin, has percolated across society. That`s why separatist leaders like Mirwaiz Omar Farooq or Prof Abdul Ghani Bhatt, who have spent years spreading the truth about the atrocities on Kashmiris by security forces, are protected by the very same CRPF and J&K police. That`s why many journalists in Kashmir are followed around by armed policemen. No local newspaper dares print a story accusing militants of killing a civilian; the operative word is "unidentified gunmen".




These 13,226 Kashmiris just do not exist in the collective psyche. There are no websites to them, no petitions and no organizations to keep alive their memory. Their only contribution has been to cement fear in 70 lakh people, where a clear distinction exists between what is said privately and in company. Where even people who are victims of militant violence are more comfortable talking about security forces and their atrocities.




These figures are from the government. They make no mention or distinction between the official account and what sometimes happens in this dirty war. For example, there`s no clarity on whether the 21,323 militants claimed killed in operations by security forces includes or excludes the six innocent Kashmiri boys picked up and murdered by the Army after the Chittisingpora massacre in 2000.




The Army had claimed they were foreign militants responsible for killing 36 Sikhs in Chittisingpora. The CBI later said the Army had abducted the six from places around Anantnag and shot them in cold blood. Or the three innocent young Kashmiris "bought" by an Army unit for Rs 50,000 each and murdered in Machil in April 2009.



So, how many militants killed were actually militants? How many of the civilians killed by militants, as claimed by the government, were victims of Hizbul Mujahideen and the Lashkar and not of "government agencies" as the separatists claim? Unfortunately, neither the Hurriyat nor the Lashkar have any lists of their own. They neither investigate their mistakes nor own up their actions. The only thing these records establish is that one lakh people haven`t died in Kashmir insurgency. What they help prove is that minus the some 4,000 jawans of the Army, BSF and the CRPF and the 5,000 odd "mehman mujahideen" from Pakistan, 34,000 Kashmiri men and women have died violent painful deaths as militants, mainstreamers, moderates or mukhbirs.
Those figures are very low. The Kashmiris have always held that 93000 people have been killed in Kashmir including soldiers policemen and militants.
 
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Those figures are very low. The Kashmiris have always held that 93000 people have been killed in Kashmir including soldiers policemen and militants.
Absolutely. Around 50,000 West Punjabis, Pathans, Afghans, Arabs, Chechens and 'Azad'Kashmiris lie in unmarked graves.

Hundreds of warriors from all over the Muslim world came over for their holy war in the nineties. From Pakistan to Algeria. But unlike in Afghanistan, they lie 6 feet under.
 
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The answer will be similar in any Muslim majority pocket in India.
Please try to settle this once and for all .

Independence from what n for what.. these guys are happy with their jobs.they have a descent booming tourism industry now.they are njoying enougj perks from central government. Few of those need change but they are confused about what they want.
Lolz @ happiness . Gang rapes are common ,killing ,extortion ,murdering ,abusing yes they are indeed enjoying a lot . Raising Indian flag just to burn is another example
 
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Those figures are very low. The Kashmiris have always held that 93000 people have been killed in Kashmir including soldiers policemen and militants.

No one can give the precise data of the death due to militancy, but it should be cleared, that those death figures should not be put on the head of the security forces, rather the terrorists.

Second, there are few poster who claims the death of the Muslims -- Why Muslims or Hindus in this regards, they are are Indians, and I have a problem regarding how it is been put. Say a terrorist exploded a grenade on Lal Chauk, and several civilians and several police personals dies and injured, how could any one blame, the security personals.

Third, Indian army in the Kashmir valley stays in the Army cantonment Area, except moving in Convoy, and except taking part in the operations, when other security forces such as J&K State police, CRPF, BSF requested there interventions. Special operations are carried out by SOF, and Para Commandos. The maximum casualties are with the CRPF, and earlier on BSF. The number of security forces are high due to the facts that India don't use high power weapons such as tanks and artillery and airpower to lower the collateral damage to the minimum.

We will. Lands won't change. But settle we will. In time. :agree:


This video was the beginning... the declaration of war on non Muslims in JnK - the Hindus, the Buddhists, the Sikhs etc - from the PM of Pakistan.

Heah I still remember her speech -- Kashmir ka har bacha bacha bolega Azadi Azadi Azadi.
 
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So they were not kids, they were not tutored, and that were their inherent behavior to behead?

So its all fine till they are bombed like terrorists?

Whoa, I am taken aback. What are you arguing about?
Not what you think i am sir.
The point here was not what is right or wrong but what is being done in this very world by these very people. The point was that these kids are being killed like terrorists. Where do you get the impression that i am saying that this is right? It is NOT. The mere fact that while these kids are labeled and killed like terrorists, here is what you have to say about the Kashmiri
Misguided youth whose future is being spoiled by dirty minds for lust of power.
Why these double standard?

No, they are just kids. Goons are those minds who are tutoring them to waste their life and keep flagging pakistan while pakistan is not able to help their own kids.

Pakistan loving? For what?

How come these kids who never saw pakistan develop this pakistan love? Religious bigotry?

I know no kid who give a damn to who is at government.
What makes the Afghan kid pull the trigger? if it just that thing you call as tutor? what are his tools? what is his MO? Let me try to give you an idea. The tool is, in that case, religion. The people are misguided in the name of religion. There is nothing that motivates people like religion. Now that can be for a good cause if the religion is being understood correctly and it can be for a bad one, if someone if feeding you will all the wrong ideas in the name of religion. So the Afghans are motivated by that, the ISIS is the same, what are the tool in Kashmir? Religion? you just called it bigotry! Nationalism, you just said the have nothing to do with Pakistan. Why don't you understand sir that there is no smoke without fire. There ARE SOME BITTER FACTS that have been ignored.

Have you ever read about my posts and views about Afghan-Pakistan relations and situation? There are some harsh realities there that we Pakistanis have to expect but mostly, our people don't and prefer to be in denial. I understand if you feel the same way about Kashmir but unfortunately both we and you are doing something wrong. Even the fact that we are BOTH doing it wont make it right. Yes, we can keep on and play the blame game as these mistakes of ours give enough fire power to others but even that wont make things right.

Yes the ground realities remains the same. Misguided propaganda at work. More lives gonna waste.
No objection, this is what i would expect from a patriot Indian. Whether it is the propaganda or these views that are misguided is what we wont agree on.

No, you feel like hey we still got chance. These kids will ruin their life to make me happy. May be someday I will avenge BDesh by Kashmir.
Well you may see yourself capable enough to pass judgements on others and predict what others feels. I don't. So i wont be able to go down that road. You may continue with the hate speech and do all that while mentioning how much you care about those Kids so that i may make things sound better. It was not really working in this post anyway.
 
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Absolutely. Around 50,000 West Punjabis, Pathans, Afghans, Arabs, Chechens and 'Azad'Kashmiris lie in unmarked graves.

Hundreds of warriors from all over the Muslim world came over for their holy war in the nineties. From Pakistan to Algeria. But unlike in Afghanistan, they lie 6 feet under.

Earlier on the JKLF, which demands the independance of the Kashmir was there, but latter on when they started persuing for the political talks with the govt. they were replaced with the HIzabul Mujahideen which was Pakistan supporter. But I will give the real credit to Rubia Sayeed, who was abducted, and Indian Govt./Congress releases 5 terrorist for her release -- Heck 1 life for thousands of death.
 
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Heah I still remember her speech -- Kashmir ka har bacha bacha bolega Azadi Azadi Azadi.
That is fine. That would be no different from any leader asking for another place's independence. The religious exhortations - mujahids, the blood of ghazis, the call for vengeance in the name of Allah and the Prophet - these are what made it a different movement.

It is an Islamist Movement for Islamic supremacy. And India will fight till its last breath.
 
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Absolutely. Around 50,000 West Punjabis, Pathans, Afghans, Arabs, Chechens and 'Azad'Kashmiris lie in unmarked graves.

Hundreds of warriors from all over the Muslim world came over for their holy war in the nineties. From Pakistan to Algeria. But unlike in Afghanistan, they lie 6 feet under.
Well I am not surprised by the justifications but I see clearly that the only real muslim majority region is in fumes. it leaves a bad impression of India in terms of protection and equal treatment of muslims. Whenever there is oppression there is equal often violent resistance. With thousands of women raped, men framed as terrorists, independence seekers jailed these things are bound to happen and are completely expected. If India did half as much treating us muslims as equal rather than obfuscating the reality of what happens in Kashmir I could assure you would get much better results. 60 years and you couldn't ensure Kashmiris think of themselves as Indians.

Leave that I have contacts in Lucknow and Hyderabad including relatives who don't believe in India. india's unity is very much threatened and the state is barely as cohesive as you guys claim. After Gujarat Muslims will never accept Modi and gang.
 
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Earlier on the JKLF, which demands the independance of the Kashmir was there, but latter on when they started persuing for the political talks with the govt. they were replaced with the HIzabul Mujahideen which was Pakistan supporter. But I will give the real credit to Rubia Sayeed, who was abducted, and Indian Govt./Congress releases 5 terrorist for her release -- Heck 1 life for thousands of death.
The terror infrastructure has been weakened. There are checks against foreign incursions. But the internal infrastructure remains intact - the mosques that called for jihad against the kafirs and mukhbirs remain.

The politicians should understand that they have fight an ideology. Killing militants will not solve the issue. Even those saved by the Indian Army during floods raise arms against the State. Why? Religion. Only kids untouched by brainwashing attend Army functions enthusiastically. The religious indoctrination happens at home. Their mosques. Their relative's place. Till most of the population becomes a zombie at the beck and call of the local imam.

Contrast that with places with a mixed population - like Kishtwar or Doda. The clashes are riots, but not anti Army protests. The demography is the problem. That is what must be changed. The bitter pill needs to be swallowed. Otherwise this fight will go on. Remember, the Muslims fought for Constantinople for 700+ years. Also remember how the Spaniards put an end to their conflict in the Iberian peninsula.

Well I am not surprised by the justifications but I see clearly that the only real muslim majority region is in fumes. it leaves a bad impression of India in terms of protection and equal treatment of muslims. Whenever there is oppression there is equal often violent resistance. With thousands of women raped, men framed as terrorists, independence seekers jailed these things are bound to happen and are completely expected. If India did half as much treating us muslims as equal rather than obfuscating the reality of what happens in Kashmir I could assure you would get much better results. 60 years and you couldn't ensure Kashmiris think of themselves as Indians.
Muslims the world over, on the whole will always consider themselves the victim. No matter what the non Muslims do. Exceptions are there. But this is the general trend. Practicing devout Muslims do not accommodate the 'other' amid their midst.

Australia, Germany, USA, England, even neutral Switzerland and Sweden have faced and will continue to face Muslim wrath for supposed injustices. It is impossible to placate them - without submitting to the rule of Islam. And that at least we will never accept.
 
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What makes the Afghan kid pull the trigger? if it just that thing you call as tutor? what are his tools? what is his MO? Let me try to give you an idea. The tool is, in that case, religion. The people are misguided in the name of religion. There is nothing that motivates people like religion. Now that can be for a good cause if the religion is being understood correctly and it can be for a bad one, if someone if feeding you will all the wrong ideas in the name of religion. So the Afghans are motivated by that, the ISIS is the same, what are the tool in Kashmir? Religion? you just called it bigotry! Nationalism, you just said the have nothing to do with Pakistan. Why don't you understand sir that there is no smoke without fire. There ARE SOME BITTER FACTS that have been ignored.

I think this part of your post answers your questions itself.

Religion has been a tool and have seldom be used for good cause when it comes to global conflicts.

As I have said, I know no kid who care for who is at government. So the question comes, why are they raising flags and hurling stones?

The answer is religion. They dont know what good governance is. They are not educated and mature enough to understand where their interest lies. They dont know what real life is behind those dark and dusty ghettos. But still they are made to fight. A fight they dont know what benefit it will bring.

But still they are fighting, they are fighting for no tangible outcomes.

When you find these symptoms, the problem lay beneath is always religion. Whether a kid in ISIS or Afghan, the problem is same. I am afraid its coming in Kashmir.

Such fighters are fueled by bigotry and not logic. They are fighting for a religious utopia, an imaginary world of their own shown to them by crooks.

They have never seen Pakistan, but they have been told how is pakistan and islamic kingdom. And believe me they have been told wrong.

I see no fight by kids worthy of being fought. I see all dirtiest of minds employed behind, nothing less nothing more.

@SarthakGanguly Here is what my take on Kashmir "struggle" fiasco.
 
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Not what you think i am sir.
The point here was not what is right or wrong but what is being done in this very world by these very people. The point was that these kids are being killed like terrorists. Where do you get the impression that i am saying that this is right? It is NOT. The mere fact that while these kids are labeled and killed like terrorists, here is what you have to say about the Kashmiri

Now don't you think that this is double standards -- Your security forces killed terrorists in FATA and Balluchistan, they are saving your nations, and when Indian soldier killing the terrorists, they are not protecting the civilions from the terrorists, rather killing the kids. Janab any one killed is the son/daughter and loveones of someones.

By the way I remember one line of an Indian Army officer -- We killed due to our profession and not by our Choice.

What makes the Afghan kid pull the trigger? if it just that thing you call as tutor? what are his tools? what is his MO? Let me try to give you an idea. The tool is, in that case, religion. The people are misguided in the name of religion. There is nothing that motivates people like religion. Now that can be for a good cause if the religion is being understood correctly and it can be for a bad one, if someone if feeding you will all the wrong ideas in the name of religion. So the Afghans are motivated by that, the ISIS is the same, what are the tool in Kashmir? Religion? you just called it bigotry! Nationalism, you just said the have nothing to do with Pakistan. Why don't you understand sir that there is no smoke without fire. There ARE SOME BITTER FACTS that have been ignored.

Have you ever read about my posts and views about Afghan-Pakistan relations and situation? There are some harsh realities there that we Pakistanis have to expect but mostly, our people don't and prefer to be in denial. I understand if you feel the same way about Kashmir but unfortunately both we and you are doing something wrong. Even the fact that we are BOTH doing it wont make it right. Yes, we can keep on and play the blame game as these mistakes of ours give enough fire power to others but even that wont make things right.

No objection, this is what i would expect from a patriot Indian. Whether it is the propaganda or these views that are misguided is what we wont agree on.

When a lie is repeated for 100 times, the person starts believing it and it becomes the truth for him. Why Afghan kid pulls the trigger -- because they are fighting the Holy War, to protect the ISLAM in the Kashmir, to save the Muslim womens who are rapped by Evil Indians Soldiers, thats what's they are feed in their minds, before they come to the valley. 4 young terrorists crosses the border filled with the Snow, and the holy war gave them power to cross the long journey on foot, latter on they ended in having their feets getting dead cells, and ended in the 1st Field Millitary Hospital of 31 Sub Area and their feets had to be removed to save their precious life. I wonder what life, in Jail and without foot, even if they gets released, what a future, what a waste of life.


In short --- What a beautiful place -- Kashmir and I can surely claim that if there is a heaven on the Earth, than it is here --- What a Mess those misguided and ignorant people have made it, been a pupet of the so called leaders, who is sitting safe in their own heaven.
 
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