India belongs to Hindus first, over 50 countries for Muslims: Shiv Sena

[Chhatrapati]

Actually I follow that principle for India as well.

I don't care what Indians do in their house. But don't claim to be a secular country, when there are cow vigilantes killing Muslims, okay.

If you don't care about anything about India, why care about what we claim.

We are a secular country, India has no state religion or has any special status for any religion (as far as state sponsored favoritism is conserved). That qualifies to be secular.

 

[MultaniGuy]

If you don't care about anything about India, why care about what we claim.

We are a secular country, India has no state religion or has any special status for any religion (as far as state sponsored favoritism is conserved). That qualifies to be secular.

I never said I do not care anything about India.

I just said I do not care what Indian do in their house as long it is based upon what they claim they are all about.

 

[Chhatrapati]

I never said I do not care anything about India.

I just said I do not care what Indian do in their house as long it is based upon what they claim they are all about.

Like new year and January 1st.

 

[Peshwa]

Interesting point. You say cows are as sacred to Hindus as the Qu'ran is to the Muslims.
I do no think that is a right comparision.

People do not eat books.

People eat animals.

how is eating a cow offensive to Hindus?

I eat beef all the time in Pakistan and in the Middle East when I get to chance. How am I offending anyone?

And then how is speaking against a man (prophet) or question the validity of words on a paper (Koran) wrong?
We don’t kill each other for criticizing people..don’t Pakistanis criticize their politicians? Don’t Pakistanis question. Philosophy, science, theories etc?

See the point is, your belief is yours to hold. That’s the beauty of faith, that it needs no reason.
Similarly, if a Hindu in India sees the cow as holy and believes that it should not be killed, he will elect representatives to the parliament to design laws to support his ideas. As long as it’s done through the legal channel, it’s right. Taking laws into your hands and killing in the name of the cow is a crime and should be heavily punished.
Same goes for Pakistan’s blasphemy law. We don’t find it practical or logical, but who are we to judge you? We believe cows are gods!

To each his own I say!

 

[MultaniGuy]

And then how is speaking against a man (prophet) or question the validity of words on a paper (Koran) wrong?
We don’t kill each other for criticizing people..don’t Pakistanis criticize their politicians? Don’t Pakistanis question. Philosophy, science, theories etc?

See the point is, your belief is yours to hold. That’s the beauty of faith, that it needs no reason.
Similarly, if a Hindu in India sees the cow as holy and believes that it should not be killed, he will elect representatives to the parliament to design laws to support his ideas. As long as it’s done through the legal channel, it’s right. Taking laws into your hands and killing in the name of the cow is a crime and should be heavily punished.
Same goes for Pakistan’s blasphemy law. We don’t find it practical or logical, but who are we to judge you? We believe cows are gods!

To each his own I say!

Well if that is your belief that cows are your gods, then who am I to say anything. Fair enough.

As the old saying goes your house your rules, my house my rules.

but in Pakistan I eat beef, in my religion(Islam) it is okay to eat beef, so I will eat it.

Should not get offended.

By the way India claims to be a secular country, so why should it ban beef for Muslims?

 

[Nilgiri]

Gotcha. So you are saying those cow vigilantes are wrong according to the constitution.

I take your point!

Yes they are wrong legally (and also in essence but thats another subject) and should be prosecuted. Extra-judicial by its very definition means illegal...it it outside the set up justice system goals and implementation.

Now we can definitely debate the state laws concerning cow slaughter etc that vary inside India...but none of those involve summary execution etc without trial that some of the "vigilantes" are doing. It has been proven that many times these vigilantes targetted muslim people in neighbourhood using false/doctored claims of cow slaughter etc...sometimes just for being Muslim, sometimes nothing to do with religion/community at all (simply for all kinds of other reasons). There is time and place and rationale for vigilante justice, this is not even close to one of them....and definitely not violence/death as what is meted out.

Same in Pakistan, what is done outside the realm of constitution/courts must not define the legal representation of a country. Because the latter is after all what we strive to but accept is never going to be 100% in existence in reality. But the key words are strive and accept (and improve) right? While we do that, we can definitely claim solidarity with what we as people have defined as the goals of our countries on paper (the constitution). Anti-constitutional elements and extra-judicial types must be hemmed in and contained as much as possible by authorities. Otherwise it leads to failure of the state itself.

 

[Peshwa]

Point is .. you do have some religious bans in your country to preserve your religious teachings or respect .. but that poster is going all crazy on muslim countries to implement pardah or islamic rules . When infact your own home has such rules related to religion . He should be judging himself before judging others,

No country, religion, or people are perfect. Not you, not us. In fact we might be far from it.
I believe in questioning everything, Hinduism and Islam alike!

 

[Nilgiri]

By the way India claims to be a secular country, so why should it ban beef for Muslims?

There is no ban on beef consumption legally anywhere in India. There are state bans on cow slaughter/bull slaughter..and sometimes even buffalo slaughter (depending on the state) for animal welfare reasons based on majority cultural sentiment.

This concept is not restricted to only India. A variety of animals worldwide are perceived as having cultural affinity and much animal welfare legislation is set up to promote that. Keep say a cat or dog the same way some people keep rabbits here in Canada for food, and you will be prosecuted and end up in jail.

 

[El Sidd]

Have I preached in any way shape or form about Islam or any other religion?
I'm simply stating my observations of how a good religion has been demonized by the actions of a few.
If Islam is criticized in todays world, it is because it suffers from a perception problem. That perception is created by us, the non muslims.
So if you don't have a strong enough constitution to stomach the perception problems faced by Islam, then please skip over my comment. It wasn't directed at you anyways.

Besides, we have 180+ MM muslims in India who are open minded and ready to face this challenge head on. @SOUTHie being the best example of a liberal muslim who understands the importance of separating church from State.
Please ignore my comments moving forward. You haven't reached that level yet to be able to openly debate and criticize the problems Islam faces in todays world.

The definition changes with time of liberalism when its about Islam.

You take the fringe liberal extremist and fringe conservative extremist and never speak of those in the middle. Because it's boring and unproductive

 

[Peshwa]

Well if that is your belief that cows are your gods, then who am I to say anything. Fair enough.

As the old saying goes your house your rules, my house my rules.

but in Pakistan I eat beef, in my religion(Islam) it is okay to eat beef, so I will eat it.

Should not get offended.

By the way India claims to be a secular country, so why should it ban beef for Muslims?

Let me point out one thing, that eating a cow does not offend a Hindu. It’s eating and killing it within India that does. So a Pakistani eating a cow makes little difference to Hindus as long as it’s not in India. House rules I suppose! Again, the above is true for some Hindus, not all!

And I totally agree with you! Why should the Muslims suffer for the sensitivities of the Hindus?! But you have to understand that apart from being secular, India is also a democracy. Meaning we can elect officials to create laws that support our ideas.
The law against killing cows is limited to the decision of the state, not the federation.
Secondly secularism means that no one’s right to religion is trampled upon.I believe that not eating cow does not in anyway prevent Muslims from practicing their religion. There is no decree in Islam that says eating cow is a must for a practicing Muslim. In fact I hardly think the prophet himself saw any cows during his time in the desert.

Anyways, point is, the cow law does not in anyway deviate from secularism. Though I do think it’s wrong personally and am against it.

 

[PakSword]

Don't know why we are expecting from Indian Muslims.. Jitnay khassi main ne Indian Muslims dekhay main, kisi country ke nahi dekhay..

Gujrat main Muslim aurton aur bachon jab Hindu bhakt qatal kar rahay thay tou baqi Hindustan main Indian Muslims apni wafadaarian saabit kar rahay thay.. Kashmir main jab pallet guns use hoti hain, tou Indian Muslims ki aik awaaz nahi uthti..

Aaey din Hindu inn ko cow slaughter ke ilzaam main slaughter kartay hain.. aur yeh phir bhi sab acha hai ka naara lagatay hain.. kyun ke phattu hain by nature..

They are a bunch of coward a*ses.. And I don't blame them.. They don't have any other place to live.. Will we accept them? No! Will Saudi accept them? No!

So let them live under the rule of Hindus.. Who cares if they are happy or sad..

 

[Chhatrapati]

Awww...why so butthurt. Did I hit a nerve back there?

because I spoke the truth?

Those cow vigilantes in India would kill beef eating Muslims in India.

You are quoting me and commenting on something, I don't give a jack about. So, who is really butthurt and has some raw nerve spooked.

You guys really are interesting.

 

[Nilgiri]

So a Pakistani eating a cow makes little difference to Hindus as long as it’s not in India. House rules I suppose!

Precisely the point. There are number of anti-halal, anti-kosher slaughter statutes coming out in specific regions and countries in the west:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-kosher-halal-meat-islam-jewish-a7723451.html

Walloon Belgium and also Denmark, Switzerland and New Zealand. Though of course its supply/local welfare based...people are free to import and consume their halal meat, its not consumption based ban (which would infringe on human rights legislatively at fundamental level).

Thus are these countries secular credentials to be questioned too?

 

[PakSword]

Let me point out one thing, that eating a cow does not offend a Hindu. It’s eating and killing it within India that does. So a Pakistani eating a cow makes little difference to Hindus as long as it’s not in India. House rules I suppose! Again, the above is true for some Hindus, not all!

And I totally agree with you! Why should the Muslims suffer for the sensitivities of the Hindus?! But you have to understand that apart from being secular, India is also a democracy. Meaning we can elect officials to create laws that support our ideas.
The law against killing cows is limited to the decision of the state, not the federation.
Secondly secularism means that no one’s right to religion is trampled upon.I believe that not eating cow does not in anyway prevent Muslims from practicing their religion. There is no decree in Islam that says eating cow is a must for a practicing Muslim. In fact I hardly think the prophet himself saw any cows during his time in the desert.

Anyways, point is, the cow law does not in anyway deviate from secularism. Though I do think it’s wrong personally and am against it.

Cow ke gosht par tou Pakistan main bhi pabandi honi chahiey.. It is not healthy for gums..

Only beef burger and Nihari should be allowed I suppose.. Until a more tastier alternative is found...

 

[El Sidd]

Don't know why we are expecting from Indian Muslims.. Jitnay khassi main ne Indian Muslims dekhay main, kisi country ke nahi dekhay..

Gujrat main Muslim aurton aur bachon jab Hindu bhakt qatal kar rahay thay tou baqi Hindustan main Indian Muslims apni wafadaarian saabit kar rahay thay.. Kashmir main jab pallet guns use hoti hain, tou Indian Muslims ki aik awaaz nahi uthti..

Aaey din Hindu inn ko cow slaughter ke ilzaam main slaughter kartay hain.. aur yeh phir bhi sab acha hai ka naara lagatay hain.. kyun ke phattu hain by nature..

They are a bunch of coward a*ses.. And I don't blame them.. They don't have any other place to live.. Will we accept them? No! Will Saudi accept them? No!

So let them live under the rule of Hindus.. Who cares if they are happy or sad..

Wait till some Indian comes and explain it to you how and what Islam is.

Kalamists and Din e ilahists will team up with seculars to have you burned at the stake.