India behind terrorist attacks - Pak Foreign Minister

[praveen]

It was no mutation - it was its own beast that rose out of the US invasion of Afghanistan.

And if what you meant by your last sentence was its literal meaning, then it is a flawed view, given that nations like the US have expended far more of their own citizens as 'cannon fodder' in pursuit of their nations strategic goals.

Of course for us those citizens are not 'cannon fodder', they are martyrs who died for the cause.

If any regular said that I would have considered it a rant but the same statement from you amazes me.Martyrdom gives new ideas which produce a backlash AM

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Who allowed the flaw to be present in the system certainly not the US.Care to show me where the US or INDIA used droves of its citizens as cannon fodder using communal/ethnic/sectarian methods.Iam quite ignorant of that aspect

You said cannon fodder - the US used its citizens as cannon fodder in its war of Independence, Civil War, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq etc. etc.

 

[HariSeldon]

I see, like moles in Indian intelligence led to the Indian Navy and Coast Guard's inability to intercept the Mumbai attackers and allowed the attackers to scout out their targets in Mumbai and discuss and prepare their plans without detection?

You are comparing Patrolling Sea with securing cant after 2 days of major blast? I can understand your pain AM, but pls think rationally.

 

[afriend]

India had a stable democracy and all of that when it was supporting East Pakistani and LTTE terrorists as well ....

The US had a stable democracy when it supported genocidal regimes and regimes that committed large scale atrocities in Latin America.

Being a stable democracy and the rest of it does not preclude support for terror and the destabilization of other nations, as the history of both the US and India shows us.

Well if you take the polcies of India and US.. it is proven that we differ and are in disagreement with many of the policies which USA undertake. But still americans and indians word carry weight all over the world.. think about it!!!!! Your points with respect to East pakistan and LTTE is mere point scoring statements and nothing more than that..!!!! India fought against LTTE when they become TERRORIST ORGANISATION when they started KILLING PEOPLE.. which nullifies your comments on them but you refuse to accept that..!!!! and In bangladesh India gave help to those who requested for that.. these two things and its scenarios are different we went in there with full force and uprooted you, we fought with your army and not your innocent people...!!! There was clear policy to remove you from East pakistan.. we didnt support the terrorist organisations who killed innocent peopls..!!!!! and we have grown much wiser from that..!!!

But what was your policy..!! Befirend any one with a gun and bomb under his belt and extrimism in his mind.. give fodder for them to grow and plot attacks on innocent people of a soverigen nation..!!!!
We don't talk to terrorists but you do..!!! thats the only difference.. stop talking with them and take action against themm..!!!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

If any regular said that I would have considered it a rant but the same statement from you amazes me.Martyrdom gives new ideas which produce a backlash AM

Why should martyrdom produce a backlash? US soldiers dying for their nation are martyrs, even when they do so in ill conceived conflicts - so why not Pakistani citizens?

It just happens that you do not like the label of martyr since often the adversary in those conflicts was India - otherwise there is no difference.

 

[praveen]

The issue was not with allowing our own countrymen to fight for a just cause, but with the mutation of the ideology they absorbed from the Wahabis and Deobandis, along with a host of other factors such as the abandonment of Afghanistan and the chaos, refugees and violence that followed.

Your countries leaders must have had the foresight to understand the above things above stated by you.Learning from history is one thing you must have done.You must have been pro-active enough when OBL was roaming around your neighbourhood threatening the US.You must have leashed your nationals Omar Sheikh and others when 9/11 was being plotted.You must have thought of other alternative methods to achieve the strategic depth

 

[praveen]

You said cannon fodder - the US used its citizens as cannon fodder in its war of Independence, Civil War, Vietnam, Korea, Iraq etc. etc.

LOL ,AM they are soldiers not some indoctrinated fundamentalist and his mentor who may one day use his talents against his own state when finds that they are not Islamic enough

 

[jeypore]

The necessity for non-military actions to contain the threat is already understood by all State actors in Pakistan, and work on it shall continue to progress.

No doubt destabilizing Pakistan through support for terror so that Pakistan does not achieve those non-military goals is a major focus for India's support for terror in Pakistan.

And ofcourse there is a clear link to this statement as well as correlation of the UN and other countries agreeing with..

Please provide a solid link, because afterall it becomes just a heresay.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well if you take the polcies of India and US.. it is proven that we differ and are in disagreement with many of the policies which USA undertake. But still americans and indians word carry weight all over the world.. think about it!!!!! Your points with respect to East pakistan and LTTE is mere point scoring statements and nothing more than that..!!!! India fought against LTTE when they become TERRORIST ORGANISATION when they started KILLING PEOPLE.. which nullifies your comments on them but you refuse to accept that..!!!! and In bangladesh India gave help to those who requested for that.. these two things and its scenarios are different we went in there with full force and uprooted you, we fought with your army and not your innocent people...!!! There was clear policy to remove you from East pakistan.. we didnt support the terrorist organisations who killed innocent peopls..!!!!! and we have grown much wiser from that..!!!

If you wish to argue that India fought (unsuccessfully) the LTTE after it created them, then one could also point out that Pakistan is fighting the Taliban and assisting the US in fighting them.

And there are no lies about East Pakistan - India supported terrorists in EP who, by some accounts, massacred 20,000 West Pakistani civilians in one city in EP (before the PA crackdown)- you supported those who asked for help alright, you supported terrorists and murderers in EP.

From Rommel's Death By Government (often quoted to point out PA atrocities):

"Throughout East Pakistan, non-Bengali communities were assaulted, their members mutilated, tortured and butchered. Let the words of Anthony Mascarenhas, whose vigorous condemnation of the Pakistan democide in East Pakistan established his credentials, speak to this:

'Thousands of families of unfortunate Muslims, many of them refugees from Bihar who chose Pakistan at the time of the partition riots in 1947, were mercilessly wiped out. Women were raped, or had their breasts torn out with specially fashioned knives. Children did not escape the horror: the lucky ones were killed with their parents; but many thousands of others must go through what life remains for them with eyes gouged out and limbs amputated. More than 20,000 bodies of non-Bengalis have been found in the main towns, such as Chittagong, Khulna and Jessore. The real toll, I was told everywhere in East Bengal, may have been as high as 100,000, for thousands of non-Bengalis have vanished without a trace. The Government of Pakistan has let the world know about that first horror. What it has suppressed is the second and worse horror which followed when its own army took over the killing. West Pakistan officials privately calculate that altogether both sides have killed 250,000 people.'"

So the only lie is the one pushed by India that it did not support brazen terror, massacres and ethnic cleansing of West Pakistanis in EP at the hands of EP separatists.

But what was your policy..!! Befirend any one with a gun and bomb under his belt and extrimism in his mind.. give fodder for them to grow and plot attacks on innocent people of a soverigen nation..!!!!
We don't talk to terrorists but you do..!!! thats the only difference.. stop talking with them and take action against themm..!!!

Wrong.

We supported the Mujahideen in fighting off Soviet invasion and occupation. We supported the Taliban in attempting to stabilize and bring order to an Afghanistan in chaos and strife, we supported Kashmiri freedom fighters and other insurgents in fighting Indian occupation of Kashmir and to force India to grant the Kashmiris the right to self determination.

You supported ethnic cleansing in EP and now suicide bombings in Pakistan against innocents - there is a major difference.

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

I miss President Pervez Musharraf , he would have provide a solid link with out fear of uncle SAM. This govermnet will never engage into a diplomatic war to present Pakistani case against India.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

LOL ,AM they are soldiers not some indoctrinated fundamentalist and his mentor who may one day use his talents against his own state when finds that they are not Islamic enough

It is a difference of labels - soldiers are 'indoctrinated' to fight whatever their nation sends them off to do.

The Mujahideen used patriotism and faith to fight the Soviets - nothing wrong with that.

Soldiers turn to crime, and some of the Mujahideen have done so too - the largest enemy of the Pakistani state however is the TTP, which was neither an asset of Pakistan nor was it indoctrinated by Pakistan.

 

[karan.1970]

The Indians were wailing about 'sophistication; and 'characteristics' when a bunch of idiots walked around a city shooting at unarmed people - Pak Navy, SSG(N), SSG - they roped in almost all of our uniformed services and their elite wings to explain away that 'sophistication and characteristics'.

By that yardstick extremely complex and coordinated attacks like the ones on GHQ, police academies, Rawalpindi Corp Commander's residence, Lahore attacks etc. could in no way have been possible without the assistance of the Indian military and intelligence.

So should we simply agree that Pakistan is sponsoring terrorism in India aka mumbai and India in Pakistan aka Lahore..

Or let the investigations get completed and discuss then..??

 

[karan.1970]

You don't want TTP next to India and you know you will not get TTP next to India because you know the Pakistani military is not going to lose this war.

What you do want is for these terrorist attacks to continue so that Pakistan continues to remain destabilized and weak - enough Indian analysts and commentators, some formerly holding various positions in India's government, military and intelligence, have expressed that particular desire and various means to achieve it.

There are idiots like this on both side.. Even your president talked of a 1000 year war with India.. Didnt he .. and the story of 1000 cuts is repeated oft. No point speculating now.. let some credible evidence come out...

 

[praveen]

If you wish to argue that India fought (unsuccessfully) the LTTE after it created them, then one could also point out that Pakistan is fighting the Taliban and assisting the US in fighting them.

And there are no lies about East Pakistan - India supported terrorists in EP who, by some accounts, massacred 20,000 West Pakistani civilians in one city in EP (before the PA crackdown)- you supported those who asked for help alright, you supported terrorists and murderers in EP.

From Rommel's Death By Government (often quoted to point out PA atrocities):

"Throughout East Pakistan, non-Bengali communities were assaulted, their members mutilated, tortured and butchered. Let the words of Anthony Mascarenhas, whose vigorous condemnation of the Pakistan democide in East Pakistan established his credentials, speak to this:

'Thousands of families of unfortunate Muslims, many of them refugees from Bihar who chose Pakistan at the time of the partition riots in 1947, were mercilessly wiped out. Women were raped, or had their breasts torn out with specially fashioned knives. Children did not escape the horror: the lucky ones were killed with their parents; but many thousands of others must go through what life remains for them with eyes gouged out and limbs amputated. More than 20,000 bodies of non-Bengalis have been found in the main towns, such as Chittagong, Khulna and Jessore. The real toll, I was told everywhere in East Bengal, may have been as high as 100,000, for thousands of non-Bengalis have vanished without a trace. The Government of Pakistan has let the world know about that first horror. What it has suppressed is the second and worse horror which followed when its own army took over the killing. West Pakistan officials privately calculate that altogether both sides have killed 250,000 people.'"

So the only lie is the one pushed by India that it did not support brazen terror, massacres and ethnic cleansing of West Pakistanis in EP at the hands of EP separatists.

Wrong.

We supported the Mujahideen in fighting off Soviet invasion and occupation. We supported the Taliban in attempting to stabilize and bring order to an Afghanistan in chaos and strife, we supported Kashmiri freedom fighters and other insurgents in fighting Indian occupation of Kashmir and to force India to grant the Kashmiris the right to self determination.

You supported ethnic cleansing in EP and now suicide bombings in Pakistan against innocents - there is a major difference.

Yes you supported all of them and none of them were citizens of their country .Most of the were as you call martyrs who died for Pakistan.I call them cannonfodder .They were indoctrinated pakistanis from the
lower strata.A large amount of essential infrastructure in the form of radical mullahs must have been used and They are the ones producing the backlash certainly not India

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

You are comparing Patrolling Sea with securing cant after 2 days of major blast? I can understand your pain AM, but pls think rationally.

I see nothing rational about your argument that a single neighborhood should somehow be sealed after a terrorist attack in another neighborhood.

Recall that the majority killed in this attack were civilians, not soldiers. If you lot of Indians would bother reading/watching the accounts of the tragedy instead of spreading conspiracy theories of 'inside job' you would realize that there were rickshaws there at the time, shopkeepers unloading supplies and selling wares and various other laborers.

This was not a 'sealed' neighborhood.