India and her Muslims

[Hulk]

From Toronto's "The Star"

Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs

In India, many members of religious minority hide the signs of their faith to escape discrimination

CALCUTTA–On a busy street in Calcutta's business district, he runs a food stall called "Rajib's Paratha" and is known as Rajib Mallick.

Using the popular Hindu name, no one suspects he is Rajab Ali Mollah, a Muslim who has adopted a fictitious identity to blend in with the neighbourhood's mostly Hindu office workers.

Sohrab Hossain, a Muslim student who came to the city to complete his Masters degree in English and lives in a Hindu-dominated housing complex, is known as Sourav Das among the students he tutors. To keep up his Hindu appearance he has a small idol of Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of learning, on his desk.

Every morning as she prepares to go to work as a fishmonger, Hasina Khatoon takes off her silver armband embossed with "Allah" in Arabic, puts vermillion powder on her forehead and red-white conch bangles on her wrist – symbols of a married Hindu woman – to maintain a Hindu appearance in a fish market where almost all of her customers are Hindus.

Rajab Mollah, Sohrab Hossain and Hasina Khatoon say they have adopted new identities in a Hindu-majority society where as Muslims they would face discrimination.

Analysts say many Muslims from all socio-economic backgrounds are quietly hiding their religious affiliation.

"Muslims in almost all spheres of life face a communal discrimination by powerful Hindus and they are denied many of their basic rights and freedom in an unjustified way," said Anjan Basu, a social analyst and executive editor of Pratidin, a Bengali daily in Calcutta.

Six decades after Partition, "many (Hindus) believe that Pakistan was created for Muslims and now they do not have right to live in India, which is meant for Hindus."

The Partition of India 60 years ago was a highly controversial arrangement, and remains a cause of much tension on the subcontinent today.

Basu, who is a Hindu, also said discrimination has been "institutionalized," with many Muslims being denied employment in government and private-sector offices where 90 to 95 per cent jobs are held by Hindus.

Gautam Ray, a senior journalist with Calcutta's largest Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika, said that since the bulk of the dalits (low-caste Hindus or so-called Untouchables) converted to Islam when the religion spread in India, many upper-caste Hindus look down on Muslims as they had for generations looked down on dalits.

"The root of this communal discrimination is deeply entrenched in the society and most of these communal Hindus are not expected to change their feeling for Muslims any time soon," said Ray, who is also an upper-caste Hindu. "Muslims are often denied housing in Hindu-dominated modern residential complexes," he added.

"This communal discrimination against Muslims will not end unless Hindus themselves change their attitude. But we do not see hope of any such positive social change anytime soon."

Muslims who adopted fake Hindu identities believe they did nothing wrong by hiding their original identities.

"Ten years ago, when my house and land in the village was eaten up by a river and I came to Calcutta in search of a job, almost all street shops and restaurants in the city refused to employ me because I was a Muslim," Mollah said.

"Some said their Hindu customers could refuse to eat at their restaurants if a Muslim worked there," he said.

"But I met a Muslim man who worked under a Hindu identity to supply water to restaurants. I followed his advice, picked up a Hindu identity and soon an upper-class Hindu employed me to run a food stall."

Nearly all of Mollah's customers are Hindus and he fears his business would suffer disastrously if his customers found out he is a Muslim.

"I don't think I have done anything wrong because I know how they hate Muslims simply because of their religion," he added.

A federal commission recently found that Muslims "live in socio-economic conditions worse than many so-called backward tribal people," according to commission chief Rajendra Sachar, a former judge.

In the state of West Bengal, where the Muslim community makes up 27 per cent of the population, employment of Muslims in the government sector was below 3 per cent, the Sachar Commission reported.

Some Muslim leaders see education as the key to a better future.

"If the younger generation can educate themselves, it will be difficult for even the most communal Hindus to discriminate against a new Muslim force," said Nazrul Islam, a senior public servant and noted Calcutta writer.

"Maybe discrimination will not be wiped out completely, but an educated and powerful community of Muslims will be able to fight off the injustice, at least to a good extent."


TheStar.com | World | Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs

If this guy is doing this, he is needs doctors attention. There is nothing like fear for Muslims in India and by the least Calcutta. Come to India sometime and will take to you to place of your choice, tell me where Muslims are living in fear.

 

[hack]

What does this topic have to do with India defense...should it not be on the current affairs part of the forum?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

yeah you would have gladly accepted if he or anyone said anything that supports your twisted perception/wet dream of "opressed" indian muslims!just because he said the truth and left musharraf clearly embarrassed and angry like a kid caught on a mischief, doesnt make him a "2 bit mullah". you and i both know this game!


its you who still continues to derail the thread by continue to defend your shameless bashing of indian muslims.as proved above, maulana madani is a MP who represents a wide indian muslim community and was not scoring political points,but speaking the hearts of indian muslims! nowhere did i try to drag pakistan in, but you sure showed your mentality towards indian " 2 bit" muslims!

you have been constantly trying to portray me as the troll,where as,it was you who deleted a video just because it didnt support your flawed views and then you went on to insult an indian muslim MP without any reason whatsoever and have been trying to shamelessly defend yourself since then!now for the nth time....stop derailing the thread.

moving on....

I'll deal with the rest of your post later, but I am done with you lying and distorting my words. What you have done is commit slander against me.

I openly challenged you multiple times to find a single post of mine that expressed any sort of sentiment whatsoever, negative or positive, about the status or conditions of Indian Muslims to justify your comments again me. You failed to do that and instead continued to spout lies and slander me by ascribin negative comments to me.

Your attempt to paint my criticism of the Mullah responding to Musharraf as some sort of 'attack on Indian Muslims' is a fallacious argument and laughable - by that token no one can criticize MMS lest that be construed as an attack on Indian Sikhs, or criticize the BJP or any of its leaders lest that be construed as an attack on Indian Hindus, or criticize Bush lest that be construed as an attack on all White conservative Americans.

Your slander and your lies are just further evidence of the fact that you are trolling and continue to deflect from the subject by trying to inject Pakistan into it.

The video you posted, in an attempt to hijack the discourse, would be just as out of place as a video of some Pashtun, Sindhi or Punjabi personality bashing an Indian personality in a thread on Pakistani Pashtun, Sindhis or Punjabis - what does one individual playing to the gallery and point scoring by bashing a personality from another nation offer us in terms of insight into the role of a particular community within a nation? Nothing.

It does illustrate to me that your own view of Indian Muslims is a rather weak and distorted one limited to how well they can publicly impugn Pakistan.

Finally, your arguments on the merits of including the video in this discussion were valid, your lies and slander against me were not, and despite being called out on them multiple times, you have chosen to continue to lie, distort my comments and slander me.

Goodbye.

 

[R.A.W.]

All the articles I posted in this thread are not written by me or any other Pakistani.

They are from New York Times, BBC, Washington Post, Los Angelas Times, Toronto's The Star, Indian news.

Instead of getting angry, try to prove that the information provided in those articles are false. We know you wont be able to do that, so its best to accept reality.

ok now what?

 

[Join]

I'll deal with the rest of your post later, but I am done with you lying and distorting my words. What you have done is commit slander against me.

I openly challenged you multiple times to find a single post of mine that expressed any sort of sentiment whatsoever, negative or positive, about the status or conditions of Indian Muslims to justify your comments again me. You failed to do that and instead continued to spout lies and slander me by ascribin negative comments to me.

Your attempt to paint my criticism of the Mullah responding to Musharraf as some sort of 'attack on Indian Muslims' is a fallacious argument and laughable - by that token no one can criticize MMS lest that be construed as an attack on Indian Sikhs, or criticize the BJP or any of its leaders lest that be construed as an attack on Indian Hindus, or criticize Bush lest that be construed as an attack on all White conservative Americans.

Your slander and your lies are just further evidence of the fact that you are trolling and continue to deflect from the subject by trying to inject Pakistan into it.

The video you posted, in an attempt to hijack the discourse, would be just as out of place as a video of some Pashtun, Sindhi or Punjabi personality bashing an Indian personality in a thread on Pakistani Pashtun, Sindhis or Punjabis - what does one individual playing to the gallery and point scoring by bashing a personality from another nation offer us in terms of insight into the role of a particular community within a nation? Nothing.

It does illustrate to me that your own view of Indian Muslims is a rather weak and distorted one limited to how well they can publicly impugn Pakistan.

Finally, your arguments on the merits of including the video in this discussion were valid, your lies and slander against me were not, and despite being called out on them multiple times, you have chosen to lie, distort my comments and slander me.

Goodbye.

Wow, Hes banned... What a cowardly act , When on a debate, and when you are being owned, You feel kinda jealous and As you are a moderator u could ban him...lol... Comeon, What was his mistake? Is that trolling, ofcourse not, He was answering a questing he was put up with, Do u think by deleting the post or video which U dont want to be shown will get you a hold in this ? U might be successful in cheating the whole world, but never your heart, Go out to the streets of pakistan and See what the muslims have to say about which is beter for them to live, India or pakistan.... I have video, but no use, U will delete it anyway... And Many Hindus have to run away from pakistan, and seek refuge in India.... U brutally harassed them, u beat them untill they converted themself to islam, many ran away here... I HAVE VIDEOS .... I KNOW THAT I WILL BE BANNED FOR THIS, AND YOU WILL GIVE SOME REPLY ON THIS BECAUSE AS IAM BANNED I CANNOT REPLY TO YOU.... And Just , its a cowardly act to ban him and then speak dirty about his comments.... show some courage to deal with his words.....

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Hes an MP, speaking on behalf of all the muslims in our country.... And moreover , Here In India, we do not see anyone with an Eye of muslim, hindu,sikh,ISAI,Parsi,Christian, We view them as Indian...

If an Indian muslim posts this video, u would say Hes not a muslim... U just want to end this discussion ur way, so why need a debate? Open a thread and say Muslims In India are Not treated well and close the thread, so that there will be no debate an You win.... How about that?

The Mullah is ONE political personality playing to the gallery in front of a former head of state of a nation with whom his own has great hostility.

What he said in there has little to no bearing in the context of the role, status, conditions etc, of Indian Muslims within India.

Why do you seek to define Indian Muslims in terms of how they react to Pakistan?

If we had a thread on the Baluch in Pakistan for example, the focus would be on why there is an insurgency in Baluchistan, why are some Baluch feeling alienated, what role should the GoP play going forward, what policies should be implemented to change things etc.

In that discussion, trying to introduce the video of some Baluch personality bashing India serves no purpose. Yes India will be part of the conversation in the sense that it is accused of fomenting the insurgency in Baluchistan, but that dynamic does not apply in the case of this thread since there is no "Indian Muslim insurgency".

That is why I see no point in introducing Pakistan or that video on this thread - the thread was to primarily solicit views solely from a domestic perspective.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What was his mistake?

Can you not read? Because my reason is pretty clear in the post you quoted - He lied, distorted and slandered. I gave him multiple opportunities to show me where I made any comments disparaging the status and conditions of Indian Muslims in India - instead of accepting he was wrong, he continued to lie and slander.

The rest of your rant is off topic, and the decision is not open for discussion.

Back to topic.

 

[fryndfire]

INDIAN MUSLIMS: THE OMAR WAY1



0 Comments | Post Comments

"The Prime Minister of India cannot be a Muslim; it is in India's constitution" - The Mullah was loud and clear. It were these words from a Friday afternoon congregation of Muslims some 8 years back that set the thought-process in my mind rolling. Too small to comprehend it, I scouted my History & Civics book thoroughly but couldn't find the mullah's dictum recorded anywhere.

With time I realised that he was obviously wrong. The ideals of secularism and democracy that I imbibed from my parents and Catholic teachers, painted a different picture of India in my mind. But the local Mullah who continued with his vitriolic tirade always had a different story to tell.

Having lived in a city and a society, which denounced extremism and condemned those belonging to the lunatic fringe; liberalism and tolerance are indeed in my DNA. I don't need to condemn terrorism because there is absolutely no question of me ever approving it! I am steadfast in this resolve and shall continue to defend India and the principles for which MY beloved country stands for till the last drop of my blood.

But then I am a Muslim as well. I am a faithful, god-fearing individual who fasts during Ramadan and aspires to read the Holy Qur'an regularly. Do I need to condemn terrorism specifically because I am a Muslim? Perhaps yes, because at the end of the day, it is mostly the self-professed members of my religion who have ashamed people like us and denigrated humanity. But if tomorrow someone blatantly generalises all Muslims as terrorists, the Muslim in me would protest.

Indeed it would be then painful to be asked, "Are you a Muslim first and then an Indian or an Indian first, then a Muslim?

I never saw, nor ever will see, my Indianness and my Muslim identity clashing. My mind has always been unanimous that there has to be a balanced assertion of both my national and religious identity, but somehow I was never able to frame the right words to articulate this inherent feeling of mine. Till that most extraordinary and passionate speech of Omar Abdullah that came in Parliament on July 22, 2008. It is one of the finest speeches I've ever heard in life. Perhaps if he proves himself in Kashmir as a CM, he'll indeed make for a much better choice as the PM than any fraud behenji.

Listen to the speech if you haven't! (Its on You Tube) Fabulous and unparalleled in the spirit it embodied, in a single stroke Omar Abdullah silenced all those chatterboxes which questioned the patriotism of Muslims like him and us. Indeed, where my country matters the most I am an Indian with unflinching patriotism, and where my religion matters most, none can stop me from being a devout Muslim. These identities are indeed singular and they can never clash because they are indeed one! Every Muslim on this country's sacred soil is a proud Indian, and every Indian to me is a like Muslim because we are all brothers. Let this feeling unity bind us once for all.

Let every Muslim make this belief a cornerstone and think positively instead of listening to the damp mullahs. That will automatically perish all the divisive forces plaguing our country. Success then for our glorious nation would then be ineveitable!

Omar, best of luck.

JAI HIND!!!

 

[haawk]

All the articles I posted in this thread are not written by me or any other Pakistani.

They are from New York Times, BBC, Washington Post, Los Angelas Times, Toronto's The Star, Indian news.

Instead of getting angry, try to prove that the information provided in those articles are false. We know you wont be able to do that, so its best to accept reality.

you still are posting in a thread about indian muslims........you posted earlier that you dont care about them.......then why are you still posting???????
i never sid that you are creating posts......you posted earlier that you didnt care abt indian muslims......so i was just asking why you are even on a thread and worse posting in it if you didnt care about indian muslims, when the thread is about indian muslims????????????????

 

[Peshwa]

Hey Indian pretending to be French,

That article I posted is from TORONTO CANADA'S DAILY STAR, and the writer is based in New Delhi.

What you posted is balochwarna, how can you compare TORONTO'S DAILY STAR TO Balochwarna

So news articles are reputable only if they're printed by a "Gora" newspaper eh....or one that has mass circulation??
Or is it because it serves your point of view??

By your logic, news stories on Fox news and its affiliates like WSJ which are miles ahead of repuatation and circulation than your Toronto Star, and should have more credibility than anything you have posted......
Why is Fox "Anti-Pakistan" Omar?? Do you want me to dig up some stories glorifying Pakistani Muslims??
I feel what the Frenchman posted should be given a read and not just dismissed lightly!!!

I personally love WSJ!!!

 

[Omar1984]

^ Almost all Pakistanis are Muslim and why do you indians always have to derail each thread on this forum.

If you have problems with the articles I posted, contact BBC, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Washington Post, Toronto's Daily Star, and even Indian news articles.

This thread is about India and her Muslims.

 

[R.A.W.]

^ Almost all Pakistanis are Muslim and why do you indians always have to derail each thread on this forum.

If you have problems with the articles I posted, contact BBC, Los Angeles Times, New York Times, Washington Post, Toronto's Daily Star, and even Indian news articles.

This thread is about India and her Muslims.

No one has problem with the articles and everyone accepts that. The problem is you Mr. Omar who come up with the same thing in each and every thread. I think you hardly have a thread regarding Indians without these articles. Stop making fool of yourself with same thing again and again....

 

[Iggy]

Guys I am minority from India.i am a christian and let me tell you most of these news are just lies...yes there are some communal riots and problems happened but most of the guys are not cruel as you guys think..i personally has lots of Hindus and Muslims as friends and i am sure that lots of my Indian brothers has too...when i read the posting about dalit massacre and discrimination among Muslims all over India i felt very surprised..don't blame the whole Indians for ignorance and narrow mindedness of some people..In our country we admire Abdul Kalam as ideal leader..Our Bollywood is ruled by three Khans ...and our AR Rehman spread Indian music all over the world..lots of Muslims are famous here in India and they are famous all around the world too..we are a developing country and yes i admit we have our share of problems too..which country doesn't have..US still facing KKK problems and racist issues..Pakistan too having issues with Shias and Sunnis..Chinese also having there share of problems.I am not saying this for trolling or started a flame war..I am just telling you some facts..I hope i didnt hurt any ones emotions

Thanks

 

[vandemataram]

Hello ouiouiouiouiouiouiouiouioui,

What a name...

Is the answer India?

And you are Indian. right?

And may I guess you hail from a country known for its Mullah Military combo ...who are good for nothing and have led your country to such glorious heights ?

Change your flag before you lecture someone else....get this quick through your head !!!

 

[Spring Onion]

ahhh nah nah our Flag will remain the same as it is since 62 years