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India and her Muslims

So at least a few Indian members, when confronted with a topic on the situation/status/state of Indian Muslims in India, can only reply with a video of a Mullah trying to verbally bash Musharraf.

Isn't that a rather sad commentary on how Indian Muslims are viewed by some? In that when asked for a discussion on India and her Muslims, these people can only reply with 'look, this Muslim bashed Musharraf in a public setting'.
 
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So at least a few Indian members, when confronted with a topic on the situation/status/state of Indian Muslims in India, can only reply with a video of a Mullah trying to verbally bash Musharraf.

Isn't that a rather sad commentary on how Indian Muslims are viewed by some? In that when asked for a discussion on India and her Muslims, these people can only reply with 'look, this Muslim bashed Musharraf in a public setting'.

Hes an MP, speaking on behalf of all the muslims in our country.... And moreover , Here In India, we do not see anyone with an Eye of muslim, hindu,sikh,ISAI,Parsi,Christian, We view them as Indian...

If an Indian muslim posts this video, u would say Hes not a muslim... U just want to end this discussion ur way, so why need a debate? Open a thread and say Muslims In India are Not treated well and close the thread, so that there will be no debate an You win.... How about that?
 
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Hes an MP, speaking on behalf of all the muslims in our country.... And moreover , Here In India, we do not see anyone with an Eye of muslim, hindu,sikh,ISAI,Parsi,Christian, We view them as Indian...

If an Indian muslim posts this video, u would say Hes not a muslim... U just want to end this discussion ur way, so why need a debate? Open a thread and say Muslims In India are Not treated well and close the thread, so that there will be no debate an You win.... How about that?

Although I don't want to get into what Maulana said, I just want to clarify that he is a Rajya Sabha MP from UP and represents the people of UP, inluding non-muslims.

He is quite an active member of the parliament and the issues he raises concerns all Indians ranging from safe disposal of bio-medical wastes, environmental issues, pay delays for Public sector employees and computerisation of post offices among others

The most recession summer session and the performance by him can be found here
Questions asked by Maulana Mahmood A. Madani during Rajya Sabha session July-Aug 2009 | TwoCircles.net
 
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Not every Indian Muslim - just the ones that behaved like the Mullah in the video in the situation presented.

why? just because he said the truth?

Why should I know him personally? His two bit behavior is on display in that video you posted - I called him a 'two bit Mullah' based on his shenanigans in that video. And no, it does not automatically imply that the authors of every article posted in here and all the members are 'two bit' since none of them, with your exception, have acted in a rude and trolling manner, as did the Mullah in his exchange with Musharraf.

all he did was to reply to musharraf's baseless bullshit comments on how opressed indian muslims are. go watch the entire interview,its on youtube before sprouting nonsense.did you even bother to know the forum on which this interview was taking place? it was the HT conclave with eminent guests from various fields....including ex indian COAS, MPs, ministers,industrialists and so on.....people from upper echelon of the society. its hardly the place to score any political point since there were no " aam aadmi" in that conclave! and even if he was trying to score political points, would he not have said what the people ( indian muslims...since he represents them) wanted to hear? so even going by this logic, he spoke the hearts of indian muslim community!

His opinions in any other setting commenting on the status of Indian Muslims I would have no issues commenting on, on their own merit, if posted - however, his opinions as expressed in that video, and the manner in which they were expressed, were rude and crass and political point scoring.

yeah you would have gladly accepted if he or anyone said anything that supports your twisted perception/wet dream of "opressed" indian muslims!just because he said the truth and left musharraf clearly embarrassed and angry like a kid caught on a mischief, doesnt make him a "2 bit mullah". you and i both know this game!:rolleyes:

Stop trolling - an opinion about one two bit Mullah does not translate into an opinion about Indian Muslims in general.

I am still waiting on you to dredge up my alleged comments on the status and stater of Indian Muslims.:agree:

Stop hyperventilating and throwing hissy fits because your attempted flame was called out, and because you were not allowed to drag in Pakistan to use as a scapegoat instead of addressing the subject of Indian Muslims in the context of India.

its you who still continues to derail the thread by continue to defend your shameless bashing of indian muslims.as proved above, maulana madani is a MP who represents a wide indian muslim community and was not scoring political points,but speaking the hearts of indian muslims! nowhere did i try to drag pakistan in, but you sure showed your mentality towards indian " 2 bit" muslims!

you have been constantly trying to portray me as the troll,where as,it was you who deleted a video just because it didnt support your flawed views and then you went on to insult an indian muslim MP without any reason whatsoever and have been trying to shamelessly defend yourself since then!now for the nth time....stop derailing the thread.:rolleyes:

moving on....
 
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From Washington Times:

"Sadly, ... even the judicial process is often complicit in the terrible miscarriage of justice," he wrote. "India has 160 million Muslims. Even if 10,000 are radicalized, it's barely a tree in a forest. To create an atmosphere that blights the entire forest is a mistake."

India's Muslims chafe under suspicion - Washington Times

This is the real idea.
It is true a few crack muslims of India working at the behest of ISI are not representative of the temporal wishes of the Muslim populace in India.
Just the same way a few more cracks working in government of India are not representative of the temporal wishes of the larger non-muslim population. Our police is below average yes (probably even congenitally incompetent), but not just for muslims of India, they are so for every non-muslim too. I am an Uttrakhandi, a few years back UP police clashed with the demonstrators who wanted a new state and attrocities were exactly on the scale that are there in communal riots. That means UP police was not doing its duty. That does not mean that every citizen in UP was discriminatory against the Uttrakhandis. By pakistani logic, uttrakhandis should have started a separatist moment by now. And just like Uttrakhandi populations and Poor tribal areas there are Muslims populations that have been at the receiving end of poor governance. No more no less. That is the test of citizenship, one lives and dies trying to improve his/her country. Muslims are contributing just as much as anybody else in development of India.

I am sure the Biharis as a community (or even the north easterners, Jharkhandis, Virtually all Naxal controlled areas) have even poor Human development indicators. But by what stretch of imagination would they be regarded as being discriminated against. Even within the Muslim Indian community the women and lower castes have even poorer indices of human development. By the logic put forth till now, the Indians are especially discriminatory against these sub sets of the community.

We have the best of laws, yes there are significant problems in compliance from both the user of governance services and the providers of governance services. But pressure is only increasing (on both the user and provider of governance) so far as accountability is concerned and things will only improve.

Also India is made up of a thousand minorities each going about its businesses. That is what India is dependent on not on some special kind of government (that is what Pakistanis and Chinese and BDs require).

India never was and never will be a Pre-68 US or apparthied SA or 71 ka Pakistan.
 
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I would like to throw some light on Imran Hasmi & Shabana Azmi issue. I accept that in India there are societies which want to live with people with their religion only. The other part is also true that it applies to other religion. Here what I found and here is how I reacted.
When I was in India (Pune), I was looking to buy a flat and found a new building selling flats, I went there but I was refused. I found that particular builder trying to sell flats only to Muslims, I went to all his completed buildings and every single owner was a Muslim. I did not made a fuss about it, I moved own no complains.
In every society there are different kind of people some are religiously fanatics some are liberal. The point is when you interact with 100 different people and find few who you did not liked, shall we blame the entire society for that?
In the film industry all Muslim stars have big fan following with Hindus and they are successful because Hindus does not check your religion before watching your films. So when so many Hindus have given you love why you blame the entire society for it. No one is perfect and no society is perfect.

I seriously believe that there is no problem with religion but there is problem with people the way to interpret it. I feel 90% people do not even understand what their religion wants.

I want to ask people why you are facing a religious issue, assume your god is alive in front of you and think how will he react. If you are not doing what he will do then you are not following your religion.

Few examples.
1) Did Ram would have done a Gujrat? I do not think so.
2) Did Allha would have allowed Godhra? I do not think so.
3) Did Ram would want his temple to be built killing scores of people? I do not think so.
4) Did Allha allowed to kill innocent men and children in name of Jihad? I do not think so.

So in essence what we are doing is most of the time opposite to what our religion wanted us to do and still we feel we are religious. Funny to me.
 
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well muslims are living in india much much before pakistan came into existence.

so for all those people who are trying to divert this thread (u know what i mean :)....)

further i have a quizz for all you people......the winner travels to Taj Mahal in india.....:)

...tell me in this planet where the largest community of muslims living in a non-muslim state.....:)...you all know the answer.....:)



so people who are day dreamers...pls pls don not derail this thread....acccept the reality....:)





by the way i hope everybody enjoyed EID and many here must have got EIDI also....:).....on a lighter note...:)
 
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well muslims are living in india much much before pakistan came into existence.

so for all those people who are trying to divert this thread (u know what i mean :)....)

further i have a quizz for all you people......the winner travels to Taj Mahal in india.....:)

...tell me in this planet where the largest community of muslims living in a non-muslim state.....:)...you all know the answer.....:)


so people who are day dreamers...pls pls don not derail this thread....acccept the reality....:)


Hello ouiouiouiouiouiouiouiouioui,

What a name... :rofl:

Is the answer India?

And you are Indian. right?
 
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Hello ouiouiouiouiouiouiouiouioui,

What a name...

Is the answer India?

And you are Indian. right?



keep guessing......my dear ex-bro


by the way pls correct me if i stated in my above post anything wrong....
 
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You've been watching to much of your bharati news media.

Dont flatter yourself, Pakistanis dont care about Indians, if it wasnt for India's occupation of Kashmir India wouldve vanished into obscurity for many Pakistanis and Kashmiris are not Indian Muslims.

You love India that is good for you, no need to prove your loyalty to India over and over again in this forum.

Pakistanis dont want to overtake India and save Indian Muslims from their misery only you indian muslims can do that for yourself.

Kashmir is the only reason for this bitter relations between the two countries.

Omar, just one question - if you don't care about India or Indians, then why is every thing that you post is about India?

As far as this discussion goes, there is no bias against Muslims as such. Yes, there are communal elements in India, just like there are Racists in the US. That does not mean Indian society is communal or the US is racist.

To the question, why are muslims in the country deprived economically - the answer should be obvious, a significant majority of Muslims in India live in states which are the most backward - UP, Bihar, etc. I doubt whether the average income of a Hindu/ Sikh/ Christian would be more than that of an average Muslim in these states. And no, these states are not backward because Muslims live there.
 
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Well I as a Muslim and direction from qur'an easily can identify a Muslim form a Mushrik. People like malaun salman must perform shadah to become a basic Muslim.

being a muslim does not give the authority to judge others belief....god alone has that,,,,,,so you can keep your "am a better believer than thou"attitude to yourself......and better not judge an other mans faith
 
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being a muslim does not give the authority to judge others belief....god alone has that,,,,,,so you can keep your "am a better believer than thou"attitude to yourself......and better not judge an other mans faith

I think some people belive that god created the world and then created man and asked man that follow these rules and pray to me like this. And if the person in front of you dont pray to me just like that kick his A$$.....

In India Ishwar Allah are equal. No one is bigger and smaller. Some people should come out of the mentality of being the enlightened one.
 
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You've been watching to much of your bharati news media.

Dont flatter yourself, Pakistanis dont care about Indians, if it wasnt for India's occupation of Kashmir India wouldve vanished into obscurity for many Pakistanis and Kashmiris are not Indian Muslims.

You love India that is good for you, no need to prove your loyalty to India over and over again in this forum.

Pakistanis dont want to overtake India and save Indian Muslims from their misery only you indian muslims can do that for yourself.

Kashmir is the only reason for this bitter relations between the two countries.



if you did not care about india or her muslims why the hell did you even look into this thread with the title"india and her muslims"

and you even posted your views on a subject you dont even care abt.....

so now we can expect that you will never take part in any" bullshitting indian muslims are abused / backward discussion that is seen in every thread in this forum?????????/

keep your above quote in mind before you post in anyother thread
 
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From Toronto's "The Star"

Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs

In India, many members of religious minority hide the signs of their faith to escape discrimination

CALCUTTA–On a busy street in Calcutta's business district, he runs a food stall called "Rajib's Paratha" and is known as Rajib Mallick.

Using the popular Hindu name, no one suspects he is Rajab Ali Mollah, a Muslim who has adopted a fictitious identity to blend in with the neighbourhood's mostly Hindu office workers.

Sohrab Hossain, a Muslim student who came to the city to complete his Masters degree in English and lives in a Hindu-dominated housing complex, is known as Sourav Das among the students he tutors. To keep up his Hindu appearance he has a small idol of Saraswati, the Hindu goddess of learning, on his desk.

Every morning as she prepares to go to work as a fishmonger, Hasina Khatoon takes off her silver armband embossed with "Allah" in Arabic, puts vermillion powder on her forehead and red-white conch bangles on her wrist – symbols of a married Hindu woman – to maintain a Hindu appearance in a fish market where almost all of her customers are Hindus.

Rajab Mollah, Sohrab Hossain and Hasina Khatoon say they have adopted new identities in a Hindu-majority society where as Muslims they would face discrimination.

Analysts say many Muslims from all socio-economic backgrounds are quietly hiding their religious affiliation.

"Muslims in almost all spheres of life face a communal discrimination by powerful Hindus and they are denied many of their basic rights and freedom in an unjustified way," said Anjan Basu, a social analyst and executive editor of Pratidin, a Bengali daily in Calcutta.

Six decades after Partition, "many (Hindus) believe that Pakistan was created for Muslims and now they do not have right to live in India, which is meant for Hindus."

The Partition of India 60 years ago was a highly controversial arrangement, and remains a cause of much tension on the subcontinent today.

Basu, who is a Hindu, also said discrimination has been "institutionalized," with many Muslims being denied employment in government and private-sector offices where 90 to 95 per cent jobs are held by Hindus.

Gautam Ray, a senior journalist with Calcutta's largest Bengali daily Anandabazar Patrika, said that since the bulk of the dalits (low-caste Hindus or so-called Untouchables) converted to Islam when the religion spread in India, many upper-caste Hindus look down on Muslims as they had for generations looked down on dalits.

"The root of this communal discrimination is deeply entrenched in the society and most of these communal Hindus are not expected to change their feeling for Muslims any time soon," said Ray, who is also an upper-caste Hindu. "Muslims are often denied housing in Hindu-dominated modern residential complexes," he added.

"This communal discrimination against Muslims will not end unless Hindus themselves change their attitude. But we do not see hope of any such positive social change anytime soon."

Muslims who adopted fake Hindu identities believe they did nothing wrong by hiding their original identities.

"Ten years ago, when my house and land in the village was eaten up by a river and I came to Calcutta in search of a job, almost all street shops and restaurants in the city refused to employ me because I was a Muslim," Mollah said.

"Some said their Hindu customers could refuse to eat at their restaurants if a Muslim worked there," he said.

"But I met a Muslim man who worked under a Hindu identity to supply water to restaurants. I followed his advice, picked up a Hindu identity and soon an upper-class Hindu employed me to run a food stall."

Nearly all of Mollah's customers are Hindus and he fears his business would suffer disastrously if his customers found out he is a Muslim.

"I don't think I have done anything wrong because I know how they hate Muslims simply because of their religion," he added.

A federal commission recently found that Muslims "live in socio-economic conditions worse than many so-called backward tribal people," according to commission chief Rajendra Sachar, a former judge.

In the state of West Bengal, where the Muslim community makes up 27 per cent of the population, employment of Muslims in the government sector was below 3 per cent, the Sachar Commission reported.

Some Muslim leaders see education as the key to a better future.

"If the younger generation can educate themselves, it will be difficult for even the most communal Hindus to discriminate against a new Muslim force," said Nazrul Islam, a senior public servant and noted Calcutta writer.

"Maybe discrimination will not be wiped out completely, but an educated and powerful community of Muslims will be able to fight off the injustice, at least to a good extent."


TheStar.com | World | Fearful Muslims adopt Hindu IDs
 
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so now we can expect that you will never take part in any" bullshitting indian muslims are abused / backward discussion that is seen in every thread in this forum?????????/

keep your above quote in mind before you post in anyother thread

All the articles I posted in this thread are not written by me or any other Pakistani.

They are from New York Times, BBC, Washington Post, Los Angelas Times, Toronto's The Star, Indian news.

Instead of getting angry, try to prove that the information provided in those articles are false. We know you wont be able to do that, so its best to accept reality.
 
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