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India and her Muslims

By the way
I studied in Christian Missionary School till my 10th.. Did my senior secondary from Aligarh Muslim university. Did my engineering from a College called Krishna Institute of Engineering And Technology and then worked for Wipro Technologies which is headed by Muslim named Azim Premji.

This is the common man of India. At various level we interact with people from all walks of life on religious grounds. So tolerance is must which I feel a bit less in this thread towards other religions.

And I went to a Christian Methodist primary school, a Parsi high school, and a nondenominational university. Grew up with Christian, Parsi, and Muslim friends, and we attended each other's religious festivals.

Same is true in Pakistan.
 
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And I went to a Christian Methodist primary school, a Parsi high school, and a nondenominational university. Grew up with Christian, Parsi, and Muslim friends, and we attended each other's religious festivals.

Same is true in Pakistan.

yes thats the point which I am trying to make. There should be toleration and respect towards other people and their religion. It should be not like "My religon is best. I am the truth you are fake....... you are whatever u like but you are wrong. You are going to burn in hell some day." This is the message which some of our friends are trying to spread without pointing fingers to anymore.

Without naming anyone I would like to say to these people "Learn some tolerance. Each one muslim or non muslim everyone is son of god. May be you may call him with some other name but at the end of the day everyone refers to him. Dont send a statement to god saying we are killing and disrespecting others because there conception of you is diffrent from us."
 
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yes thats the point which I am trying to make. There should be toleration and respect towards other people and their religion. It should be not like "My religon is best. I am the truth you are fake....... you are whatever u like but you are wrong. You are going to burn in hell some day." This is the message which some of our friends are trying to spread without pointing fingers to anymore.

Without naming anyone I would like to say to these people "Learn some tolerance. Each one muslim or non muslim everyone is son of god. May be you may call him with some other name but at the end of the day everyone refers to him. Dont send a statement to god saying we are killing and disrespecting others because there conception of you is diffrent from us."

Well, like I said, there is diversity of opinion amongst Mulims, just like in other religions. Some Muslim sects are more strict than others. You guys probably have the same thing in Hinduism; some sects or organizations being more lenient than others.
 
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Well, like I said, there is diversity of opinion amongst Mulims, just like in other religions. Some Muslim sects are more strict than others. You guys probably have the same thing in Hinduism; some sects or organizations being more lenient than others.

Definitely there are. There are sects in Hinduism which are hard core. But we cannot excuse our self behind these sects and forget the tolerance. We will see a blood bath then. Muslims fighting Hindus. Hindus fighting Muslims.
We as individuals have to change. It takes one man to change the world.
 
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Please make the following correction to the title of the topic:
"I am an Indian, I am a Muslim, I am a Hindu and I like to take my shirt off frequently."

hahaahah
thats is a universal truth:rofl::rofl:
 
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The fact that this thread went on for 10 pages just shows how insecure some people are. Seriously!! get over it what Salman khan said was not in a literal sense in terms of religion but more on a nationalistic level, common sense after all isn't so common.
 
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Its the symbol of cast-based discrimination in India.

You can not compare it with Makkah because we do not stop any Muslim be it of any creed or color from visiting Makkah.

Anyway Paritosh i was expecting little better neutral reply from you over this.

I personally would level the Jagannath temple...if given a chance..and all the mosques and temples and anything that even remotely schisms the social fabric of India....but then it's not important what I feel now is it?
no denying that these archaic practises are indeed....archaic

"Its the symbol of cast-based discrimination in India."

yeah it is...but people tend to symbolize things through a sub-conscious mental algorithm...you would view the temple as a "discriminatory place" and a place of worship( in that order)...an Indian with even the most remote sense of secularism would view it as a place of worship and a place of discrimination....while a devout hindu would view it as the most pious place of worship...and just that.
some of the practices of my religion...do not fit the secular country that we have chosen to be.
the good part...my class X civic book listed all these bad practices that have slowly creeped into hinduism...as being bad...and against the idea of India....it matters a lot...


"You can not compare it with Makkah because we do not stop any Muslim be it of any creed or color from visiting Makkah."

my point was just to highlight the religious importance of the Jagannath temple.
 
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Please do not talk if you know nothing... You all are converted muslims, because Your for fathers were Hindus, India Asia There were no muslims before the arabs raided us, some were forced to convert, some who had guts stayed as Hindus...

So just do not take each and every chance to abuse a religion, You very well know the history, why waste time talking about it...

PLease read your post and take note LCA
Let me tell you your Ancestors worshipped Allah
Remember Adam and Eve ?
 
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Good morning Gracie!

Wow 10 pages and going strong ..... and it was 3-4 on Saturday when i signed off!!! You guys have sure been busy. LOL

I think the more I read of this thread, the more it made me realise that India and Pakistan separated at Partition not because of Hindu and Muslim, but because of Secular and Fundamental.

And once and for all, I am glad it happened.

Cheers, Doc
 
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Is not India anti-Muslim?(DR.ABDUL RUFF Colachal)
Thu, 16/08/2007 - 21:49 — Anonymous

Is not India anti-Muslim?
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Globalization has been meticulously engineered so as to make the world dangerous for Muslims.Indian version of that degeneration has been unbearable for Muslims in the country. Any show of patriotism for money or other favors is ridiculous in principle as that displays hypocrisy. It has been the habit of Indian leaders, bureaucrats and media etc, to make Muslims feel apologetic and inferior to the majority population by resorting to convenient tactics like "patriotism", "Pakistan":cross-border-terrorism, and "Islamic terrorism" depending on the season. Of late there have been lot pseudo patriotic sentiments espoused in Indian media. Fully knowing that Muslims are badly hit from all directions, the media still harp on the so-called appeasement of Muslims by the rulers.

A big chunk of foreign Indians living a very comfortable life abroad tent to enjoy patriotic rhetoric just as the school children do with patriotic rhymes. They join the Indian government, its media and others to paint Indian Muslims in dirty colors and no one is bothered to set things going one-way right.Media have been given full rights to target Muslims as the "jai hindu" politicians shamelessly do. They decide what is patriotic and what is not, making the India news media very energetic in attacking and exposing Indian Muslims to attacks by anti-Islamic forces operating in the country. Muslims are already tormented with Indian terrorism rhetoric, for being less patriotic and more “terroristic”. In stead of imbibing money-based patriotism, these “patriots” could better associate themselves with real value-bases selfless patriotism. In terms of real patriotism, neither Indian politicians –cum-bureaucrats, nor media could pass even in third class. But they are very good at anti-Muslim and anti-Islamic in their writings and works, be it in politics or in administration. They thrive thanks to their skills in denouncing Islam and attacking Muslims.

What has been going on world-wide is an attempt by the governments to brand Muslims as terrorists and jail them for torture without court trails. Abdul Nasser Madani and Afzal are glaring examples of Indian attitude to Muslims. Unfortunately, the Constitution of 'democratic' India does not provide for punishment of governments when they commit crimes against individuals. State-sponsored terrorism has been thriving because of that. Though the verdict could be an indirect indictment on governments of Kerala and Tamil Nadu as well as Central government for the wrongful confinement and mental torture of Abdul Madani, nothing could probably be done to punish the rulers and their associates. And Indian media cleverly diverted the attention of the plight of Madani and others in a country that is tilted against Muslim genuine interests.

It is known that the Muslims both bearded and clean-shaven are under serious threat in India. It fact Indian governments and their strong networks have made them literally on the run. It is said that India is a incredible country, may be because, the innocent Muslims are punished and terrorized in jails for decades without trials or any legal backing, while those anti-Islamic terrorists who attempted to murder Madani and others are still roaming about freely saying that it is their country and they are "patriots"! India is yet to seriously file cases against atrocities and murders committed against Muslims in the country. Those wanting the Muslims to be jailed forever should consider themselves in jails all alone just for 24 hours; they will know what life like in jails is.

The Indians comfortably living abroad both in Indian embassies and elsewhere think it their "patriotic duty" to trumpet about Indian greatness and "terrorist" Muslims living in India. There seems to be a valid point in Indian media not exposing the Indian authorities for supplying "explosive information" to Australia about Haneef being a "close associate" of the so-called al-Qaeda on the basis of the so-called intelligence reports that actually aided the Australian authorities to arrest and harass Haneef. The Indian media did underplay the government position in order to uphold the national “prestige” of aspiring India seeking to advance its special interests, and not as a primary journalistic duty for laying bare the facts before the people or their judgment, after all the voters also have to decide the future course of the nation. Later, however, like in films, both the government and media took credit for releasing Haneef from Australian jail and atrocities. But for the intervening of British intelligence, giving the Australian authroites critical evidence to prove innocence of Haneef, Haneef would have been in jail even now, being tortured endlessly.

Nearly for a decade the bearded Abdul Nasser Madani had been branded a terrorist though he did not supply weapon and counsel for the Coimbatore blast. It has become a practice in Tamil Nadu, in police stations, to insult a Muslim with a beard saying that he should also be sent to Coimbatore jail, meaning to shut him near Madani. In fact a bearded Muslim has been under serious threat not only in Tamil Nadu or Kerala but in the entire country. Judge K. Uthirapathy has indeed has delivered a bold verdict under circumstances that a Hindi film actor was convicted by Bombay Court and Madani could also be punished. May be the Haneef verdict might have assured the special judge of righteousness of the Madani case too. And the judge without budging the pressure groups delivered the bold verdict. Possibly, there could have been a lot pressure on the judge to deliver a verdict that does not tarnish the “national prestige” of “majority India”. The general preaching in India as in the West is that the Muslims are "terrorists", whereas Hindus and others are not, the verdict was expected to project this thesis of the anti-Islamic forces and in line with the “majority” sentiments. The judge has in fact revised the verdict given nearly ten years ago by the anti-Islamic forces in India against Madani after they failed to kill him in a blast at his place in Kerala (Madani lost his leg in an anti-Islamic terrorist attack). These forces now argue that the release of Madani could have terrific consequences for the country and say that Madani should either be jailed permanently or be killed. Now that he is declared innocent, all other petty, politically motivated cases registered against him in Kerala have to be just thrown into the dust-bin of the courts where the cases are pending.

Muslims in India should be grateful to Madani for his suffering for his active involvement in defending Muslims and Islam when a decade ago the anti-Islamic forces in Kerala and elsewhere were on the rampage threatening their very existence. Basically a religious priest, he floated in Islamic service Organization and, when it was outlawed by Indian government on pressure from opposite camp, he dismantled it to start a political outfit with help of Hindus. Then came the attempt to kill him and implicate him in 1998 Coimbatore blast. Clearly there has been a conspiracy against Madani and, unless he is cautious, he might yet again find himself in dark cells. Madani seems to be a clear threat to those politicians who depend on "Muslim vote bank" in Kerala for their own existence and welfare.

One does not know what has really happened in the story about Haneef in Australia, but the India Media took special care not to offend the sentiments of foreign Indians and hence did not reveal the whole truth about the hidden agenda behind Haneef's arrest and harassment. It needs no illustration about India ill-treating Muslims in India and abroad. When no Hindu leader could be jailed for nearly ten long years, Abdul Nasser Madani was tortured in Jails in Kerala and Tamil Nadu without trial and legal sanction. Since the attitude of Police and court toward Muslim is a foregone conclusion and the government think they can do anything and judges will “understand" the government's predicament and do “justice" in favor of the government. Some how Madan's life and torture were spared after nearly a decade when the Judge declared at long last that Madani and others are innocent and not involved in the so-called Coimbatore terrorist attack of 1998.This historic judgment came to be rude shock to the government, media, the " patriotic" foreign Indians and other "interested networking personnel. What they are not able to digest is the fact that Indian Muslims are not "terrorists". Considering the course of events about Haneef’s jail in Australia, it is apparent that Australia began witch-hunting on the request of Indian government by giving “evidence” of Haneef’s involvement in al-Qaeda activities. Then it goes without saying that India’s efforts to get Haneef’ release is high-drama enacted to boost the so-called ”patriotic” image of Indians, especially abroad.

This writer has written in details about how a Kashmiri Afzal was hooked by Indian government by playing with his freedom seeking sentiments and implicated in the so-called “parliament attack” and he was not delivered justice by keeping the frame of reference to the “records” supplied by the government side. The former President Kalam to whom the matter was referred for his “mercy” is still pending in the Rashtrpati Bhawan (RB), as Kalam was not allowed to interfere in the “Islamic terrorism” case.

Definitely, it isextremely difficult to distinguish between genuine “patriotism” from pseudo one currently displayed through Indian media. Whether or not the general masses would be allowed to see through the game plan of Indian governments and media, the truth about "terrorism" is out now and who is doing what. What intrigues most is the fact Indian Muslims, like world Muslims because of a strategy by the USA-led nations, have been systematically made feel apologetic about things with which they have no links. India governments-cum-media do it quite consciously in order to keep the Muslims out of resources gained from national development.

Torturing and killing of Muslims the world over under garb of “terrorism”, “threats” and “suspicions” have to stop. Indian parliament must immediately pass a law not to detain the Muslims without court sanction and without sufficient proof. And generally Muslims should not be detained in police custody for more than 24 hours (unless the court is on holiday) and within that time the “culprits” including the ‘terrorists” must be produced before the court of Justice for the settlement of the ‘suspicion’ case, Muslims cannot remain “suspected” for decades together as it has happened in the case of innocent Abdul Nasser Madani and many others.

Whether or not the general masses would be allowed to see through the game plan of Indian governments and media, the truth about "terrorism" is out now and who is doing what. The UK government got the release of its “terrorist” citizens in 2005, but none from the Middle East came forward to get justice for their own justice and the Arabs don’t think they are ashamed of their cowardice. The US detention camp at Guantánamo Bay in Cuba type torture camps without legal sanctions should be allowed to spread world wide. It is, however, still early to write about Indo-USA terrorism.
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DR.ABDUL RUFF Colachal
India
 
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There is an existing thread with a similar theme (or perhaps several) could someone locate them and post the link so I can merge?
 
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Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables'

The condition of the country's Muslims has deteriorated, and the world has overlooked the nation's problems.

The news of the attacks in Mumbai eerily took me back to a quiet morning two years ago when I sat in Room 721 of the Taj Mahal Palace & Tower hotel, reading the morning newspaper, fearing just the kind of violence that has now exploded in the city of my birth. The headlines recounted how the socioeconomic condition of the people of my ancestry, Muslims in India, had fallen below that of the Hindu caste traditionally called "untouchables," according to a government report.

"Muslims are India's new untouchables," I said sadly to my mother, in the room with me. "India is going to explode if it doesn't take care of them." Now, indeed, alas it has. And shattered in the process is the myth of India's thriving secular democracy.

Mumbai police said over the weekend that the only gunman they'd captured during the attacks -- which left nearly 200 dead and more than 300 wounded -- claimed to belong to a Pakistani militant group. But even if the trouble was imported, the violence will most certainly turn a spotlight of suspicion on Muslims in India. Already, my relatives are hunkered down for a sectarian backlash they expect from anti-terrorism agencies, police and angry Hindu fundamentalists.

India, long championed as a model of pluralism, used to be an example of how Muslims can coexist and thrive even as a minority population. My extended family prospered as part of an educated, middle class. My parents, who settled in the United States in the 1960s when my father pursued a doctorate at Rutgers University, were part of India's successful diaspora. I love India, and on that trip, I wanted to show it off to my son, Shibli, then age 4.

But on that visit, across India from Mumbai to the southern state of Tamil Nadu and north to Lucknow, the hub of Muslim culture, I was deeply saddened. Talking to vegetable vendors, artisans and businessmen, I heard about how the condition of Muslims had deteriorated. They had become largely disenfranchised, poor, jobless and uneducated. Their tales echoed those I'd heard on previous trips, when my extended family recounted their humiliating experiences with bureaucratic, housing, job and educational discrimination.

Indeed, the government report I read about in the newspapers two years ago acknowledged that Muslims in India had become "backward." "Fearing for their security," the report said, "Muslims are increasingly resorting to living in ghettos around the country." Branding of Muslims as anti-national, terrorists and agents of Pakistan "has a depressing effect on their psyche," the report said, noting Muslims live in "a sense of despair and suspicion."

According to the report, produced by a committee led by a former Indian chief justice, Rajender Sachar, Muslims were now worse off than the Dalit caste, or those called untouchables. Some 52% of Muslim men were unemployed, compared with 47% of Dalit men. Among Muslim women, 91% were unemployed, compared with 77% of Dalit women. Almost half of Muslims over the age of 46 couldn't read or write. While making up 11% of the population, Muslims accounted for 40% of India's prison population. Meanwhile, they held less than 5% of government jobs.

The Sachar committee report recommended creating a commission to remedy the systemic discrimination and promote affirmative-action programs. So far, very few of the recommendations have been put in place.

Since reading the report, I have feared that Islamic militancy would be born out of such despair. Even if last week's terrorist plot was hatched outside India, a cycle of sectarian violence could break out in the country and push some disenfranchised Muslim youth to join militant groups using hot-button issues like Israel and Kashmir as inspiration.

What has irked me these last years is how the world has glossed over India's problems. In 2006, for instance, former U.S. Defense Secretary William Cohen, whose Cohen Group invests heavily in India, said the U.S. and India were "perfect partners" because of their "multiethnic and secular democracies." When I asked to interview Cohen about the socioeconomic condition of Muslims, his public relations staffer said that conversation was too "in the weeds." But, to me, the condition of Muslims needs frank and open discussion if there is to be any hope of stemming Islamic radicalism and realizing true secular democracy in the country.

India's 150 million Muslims represent the second-largest Muslim population in the world, smaller only than Indonesia's 190 million Muslims. That is just bigger than Pakistan's 140 million Muslims or the entire population of Arab Muslims, which numbers about 140 million. U.S. intelligence reports continually warn that economic, social and political discontent are catalysts for radicalism, so we would be naive to continue to ignore this potential threat to the national security of not just India but the United States.

Throughout my 2006 journey, I found the idea of India's potential for danger unavoidable. On one leg, my son tucked safely in bed with my mother in our Taj hotel room, I went out to watch the filming of "A Mighty Heart," the movie about the murder of Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl by Muslim militants in Pakistan. When the location scouts needed to replicate the treacherous streets of Karachi's militant Islamist culture, they didn't have to go far. They found the perfect spot in a poor Muslim neighborhood of Mumbai.

Muslims -- India's new 'untouchables' -- latimes.com
 
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