India Ahead : How will PAF counter IAF - FGFA/PAKFA ?

[deckingraj]

Those esstimates are from Bharat Rakshak and totally wrong. A Mig-21 with RAM treatment had a rcs of just 0.25m2 and the very un-stealthy SU-47 had a rcs of 0.3m2. The primary means of reducing an aircrafts' rcs is shaping, neither the Mig-21, nor the SU-47 had any 'stealth' shaping. The question is, how does an aircraft such as the PAK-FA which has 'stealth' shaping end up having a bigger rcs than both the Mig-21 and the SU-47? Anyone that beleives the PAK-FA will have anything close to 0.5m2 is extreemly gullible and naive, esspecially when the PAK-FA is in the prototype stage. But if you want to beleive a blogger be my guest.

Kewl...So what's your thought on how stealthy this plane would be?? I am asking this because Pakistani members did agree that there are not enough counter measures for planes like Raptor and there were lot of suggestions that FGFA is not going to be stealthy as compared to Raptor....

I know this would have been discussed in length so you can even point me to a relevant thread...All i am interested in knowing the best educated guess since specs are not yet out...

 

[bluefox]

Whatever helps you sleep better war monger, Remember that your economy is primarily based on international companies who have ventures in India, the day India declares war, they companies will leave and your economy will crash faster than your Mig-21s.................

what on earth made u beleive that our economy is primarily based on international companies who have ventures in India??these BPO's S/W companies are a meagre part of our economy,our economy is primaraly home dependent,many of these foreign companies have come to indian markets for their roti ,kapda and makaan..come out of ur fools paradise man ,,stop beleiving blindly the likes of zaid hamid

 

[SomeGuy]

Those esstimates are from Bharat Rakshak and totally wrong. A Mig-21 with RAM treatment had a rcs of just 0.25m2 and the very un-stealthy SU-47 had a rcs of 0.3m2. The primary means of reducing an aircrafts' rcs is shaping, neither the Mig-21, nor the SU-47 had any 'stealth' shaping. The question is, how does an aircraft such as the PAK-FA which has 'stealth' shaping end up having a bigger rcs than both the Mig-21 and the SU-47? Anyone that beleives the PAK-FA will have anything close to 0.5m2 is extreemly gullible and naive, esspecially when the PAK-FA is in the prototype stage. But if you want to beleive a blogger be my guest.

I read somewhere on a different site (Ausairpower) that Sukhoi claimed the RCS of the PAKFA is 1/40 of the SU-35.

I don't know exactly what the RCS of SU-35 is but I've seen estimates of between 1m2 and 3m2 agreed?

So work it out yourself. 1/40 would put it between 0.15m2 and 0.47m2 (or 0.5m2 to round off).

P.S. Mig-21 is 3m2. If the primary means of reducing an aircrafts' rcs is shaping, how does applying RAM reduce its RCS to 0.25m2 (a factor of nearly 150 times)?

 

[Icarus]

what on earth made u beleive that our economy is primarily based on international companies who have ventures in India??these BPO's S/W companies are a meagre part of our economy,our economy is primaraly home dependent,many of these foreign companies have come to indian markets for their roti ,kapda and makaan..come out of ur fools paradise man ,,stop beleiving blindly the likes of zaid hamid

India has Asia's largest outsourcing Industry, second only to U.S in the world.
A sum of more than $35 Billion is invested by companies from other countries in India each year......................
I do agree it's not the Primary source of your economy as stated by me earlier(slight exaggeration on my part) but it is still quite significant..................
Cheers..................

 

[farhan_9909]

i am wondering too..

how will we counter the indian 5th generation aircraft//

will US will offer us f-35..

i am sure china will offer us J-xx bt i dnt think it will be ready before 2020..and india will get FGFA by 2018..

 

[thunder rules]

i am wondering too..

how will we counter the indian 5th generation aircraft//

will US will offer us f-35..

i am sure china will offer us J-xx bt i dnt think it will be ready before 2020..and india will get FGFA by 2018..

their is no denying that induction of pakfa in iaf would a lethal addition to their air power and paf must be making strategies to counter this threat . obviously paf wont be sitting duck and watching india increase its arsenal like that.. we surly will hear some good news when india will start inducting its first pakfa in 2020

 

[farhan_9909]

also heard that pak has increased its defence budget by 96%

to 9.5Bn usd..

so i think definelty pak will go for any aircraft...

we also hav to counter MMRCA
because i dnt think so J-10B can match with any MMRCA aircraft except gripen

 

[farhan_9909]

Defence budget up by 96pc | Pakistan Daily
'
777 Bn rs equals to something above 9Bn USD..

 

[karan.1970]

Defence budget up by 96pc | Pakistan Daily
'
777 Bn rs equals to something above 9Bn USD..

There was a thread that ran into scores of pages about 34% hike in India's defence budget.. Wonder what will haeppen here.. Riaz.. my friend.. where are you??

any way if true this means Pakistan is spending close to 5.5% of its GDP on defence.. hmm....

 

[farhan_9909]

It is frm authentic link

and i think by june it will again increase like always..

last year increased 15% by may and again 15% later
means 30%
so if ths year it increases 30% too
then it will cross 12Bn usd..

Hope we order something new like rafale or join j-xx...:

 

[DesiGuy]

why u want india to get completely destroyed? plz say no to war because it will only harm both countries.

neither his or your, or anyone else opinion matters!!!

the war will start because of both countries politics and it will end with your and his blood.

 

[WAQAS119]

neither his or your, or anyone else opinion matters!!!

the war will start because of both countries politics and it will end with your and his blood.

so true,
i mean politicians create war hysteria only to get votes. Sowing hatred may benefit politicians in short term but may result in deadly and last war for both countries.

 

[ptldM3]

Kewl...So what's your thought on how stealthy this plane would be?? I am asking this because Pakistani members did agree that there are not enough counter measures for planes like Raptor and there were lot of suggestions that FGFA is not going to be stealthy as compared to Raptor....

I know this would have been discussed in length so you can even point me to a relevant thread...All i am interested in knowing the best educated guess since specs are not yet out...

The only people that can answer that question is Sukhoi and since the PAK-FA is in the prototype stage it's too premature to definatevlely say what its RCS will be.

I read somewhere on a different site (Ausairpower) that Sukhoi claimed the RCS of the PAKFA is 1/40 of the SU-35.

I have see that claim but i have not heard of Sukhoi making any such claims about the PAK-FA's RCS, of course i could be wrong but i searched. Bharat Rakshak started the rumors of the 0.5 rcs and soon after many publications picked up his numbers.

I don't know exactly what the RCS of SU-35 is but I've seen estimates of between 1m2 and 3m2 agreed?

Don't you think that if Sukhoi can take an SU-27 airframe and reduce its rcs from 15m2 to 1m2 that the PAK-FA will boast a smaller rcs than just 0.5m2? Afterall the pak-fa is specifically designed with lo shaping and a full coating of RAM something that the SU-35 lacks.

So work it out yourself. 1/40 would put it between 0.15m2 and 0.47m2 (or 0.5m2 to round off).

P.S. Mig-21 is 3m2. If the primary means of reducing an aircrafts' rcs is shaping, how does applying RAM reduce its RCS to 0.25m2 (a factor of nearly 150 times)?

I have seen 1.5m2 for the Mig-21's rcs which would reduce its rcs by a factor of 72 times--granted this does seem very high but perhaps our calculations are not the same ones that are usually used to figure out the area of an aircraft? This is how i assume you got the Mig-21's rcs: (c*sq-rt(3))/(c*sq-rt(0.25)) = sq-rt(3)/2. Of course the Mig-21 rcs could be bogus but that doesn't change the fact that the conventional airframe of the SU-35 was able to have an impressive rcs reduction dispite its very large and conventional frame, with that being said i have high hopes that the final PAK-FA design (not the prototype) will have a much lower rcs than the 0.5m2 figure that keeps floating around.

 

[gambit]

If the primary means of reducing an aircrafts' rcs is shaping, how does applying RAM reduce its RCS to 0.25m2 (a factor of nearly 150 times)?

Some clarifications is needed. In theory, absorbers should be sufficient but the CURRENT problem with absorber technology is bandwidth, meaning the CURRENT material is good within a narrow freq band. Is it possible to increase bandwidth? Yes...But at the expense of thickness, thereby incurring a weight penalty, and maintenance. I have friends who were maintainers on the F-117 and transitioned over to the F-22 and they all say the F-22's maintenance regime is far less demanding. That leave shaping as the best method to create an baseline RCS. I did not use the word 'reduce' because it imply an existing RCS value. The application of RAM would be an appropriate 'reduction' method. So if the desire is to have an aircraft whose RCS is below the current generation, and since RAM is still impractical, that leave a new design.

http://www.scielo.br/scielo.php?pid=S1516-14392008000300003&script=sci_arttext

The advantage of this type of absorber is the simplicity of all its structure; however, the main disadvantage is the large thickness of the spacer materials, which restricts the application, the application of this material, allied to the high manufacturing cost and low flexibility

 

[letsbefriends]

also heard that pak has increased its defence budget by 96%

to 9.5Bn usd..

so i think definelty pak will go for any aircraft...

we also hav to counter MMRCA
because i dnt think so J-10B can match with any MMRCA aircraft except gripen

buddy it means 9.5 billion USD for three forces that is army,navy and air force not alone air force..by the way..hw much has been allocated to individual forces???