What's new

India a partner, not ally: US envoy

There might very well be government quotas for Dalits due to the discrimination they get in society, and this is a step in the right direction. However this is only a very small part of the story. Generally the GoI wants votes from all parts of the communities, it needs to save face in the international community, and in generally surveys have shown that Dalits are subject to huge discrmination within society (examples see below).

Once Again Your usual confusion surfaces here. In your earlier posts you spoke of how Lower Caste were forced into voting for prefered individuals of Upper Caste & now you are talking of GoI trying to entice them with perks. It is hard to understand what line you are toeing.

Official records show that the rate of atrocities against Dalits continues at about 26,000 a year. That figure is enormous but is unlikely to represent anything like the true extent of caste-based violence against Dalits. A seminal study last year, “Untouchability in Rural India”, found that in 28 per cent. of villages surveyed Dalits faced discrimination in entry into police stations and that in 32 per cent. they encountered discrimination in how they were treated in police stations.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200607/cmhansrd/cm070508/halltext/70508h0005.htm

Dalits constitute for 16% of India's population that makes their absolute population stand at 180 million of which you could only come up with 26000 cases which is less than 0.0014%. Now I suppose thats a very fair percentage by your terms. BTW, no where did I read in the report that Dalits are forced to vote against their will, a tripe that you have been harping upon since your first post.

There's clearly many aspects of Dalit day to day living that is discriminatory. Indian government turns a blind eye to these things, whilst projecting the government quotas on Muslims, Dalits and so on for the very few government jobs on offer. It does help the Dalits for sure, but only a very few of them. In general, they are denied their right at the ground level.

And how would you describe the day to day life discrimination that dalits face? By having their hands cutoff if they vote against the will of Upper caste? You have again contadicted yourself here when you speak of government offering Job Quotas to them, a far cry from your earlier statement. BTW, there are over 15 million government jobs in India of which dalits have a share of 4 million and that includes representation at the highest level including civil services. Indian Railway itself comprises of 1.6 million jobs.

Even the UN acknowledges what i'm saying, the least you could do is do the same, else you're just lying in bed with racists.

No where does UN states that Dalits are forced to vote against their will. I decry to accept your line. Now, call me racist.

For these reasons, Dalits are kept subjugated by the Upper Castes and cannot bring into the mainstream politics those parties that would end Dalit discrimination such as caste violence and police immunity to perpetrators of Dalit crimes. One this immunity is removed, then the Dalits I believe will be able to finally vote freely and new mainstream political parties that really make a difference for Dalits will come to the fore.

Again the same puerile statement devoid of any hardcore knowledge of subject. When it has been iterated a gazillion times by now as to what constitutes the political nature in India. I am sure even an answering machine can come with a different response than yours. When even your own articles that you posted do not speak of dalits being devoid of their voting rights how hard is it for you to acknowledge?

Well, it's not what I said. I think instead of looking up words which you don't know how to use for the most part, focus on writing a valid response to a valid point.

I havn't subjected my Knowledge of English vocabulary & grammer open to your assesment. It is fairly evident to me that you aren't a professor of English literature at Oxford. So, kindly concentrate on subject matter rather than passing juvenile statement on my level of english knowledge. If you are having any trouble comprehending words or statements then word reference is at your service

http://dictionary.reference.com/

Now, the simple point you need to argue is that for India aka Bharat to be a true democracy it needs to BOTH ensure that Dalits and other lower castes are not bullied into voting for the upper caste politicians that will bully them further AND eliminate illiteracy. Once these two have been achieved, Bharat will be a genuine democracy, since right now it is not.

I have made my point but if there is something hard for you to accept it against your dogmatic beliefs then I am least interested in clearing the cob-webs in your head. Discussion is for understanding not for scoring points and definately not if someone keeps chanting the same credo in every post.

Actually, I could see who was a low caste and who was not. But the lower castes form 85% of the population, and I know that Indian politics is DOMINATED by the Upper castes. Absolute values are irrelevant.

Actually you couldn't otherwise you would've known that the majority of them belong to OBC category. But then accepting the fact is against your dogmatic principles.

It's me and some very intellectual people that consider India aka Bharat to be a sham democracy, not least an educated literary prize winner.

So the rest of the world is devoid of any intellect & You along with that (H)ooker prize winner belong to the enlightened illuminati. If that makes you happy so be it.

I rest my case.
 
. .
Once Again Your usual confusion surfaces here. In your earlier posts you spoke of how Lower Caste were forced into voting for prefered individuals of Upper Caste & now you are talking of GoI trying to entice them with perks. It is hard to understand what line you are toeing.

What you been smoking?!! The GoI wants all the votes it can get, so it gives perks to the lower castes which some Dalits fall for, the majority do not, and this majority then are FORCED. This is the second time I've seen you making an utter bonga of yourself with your logic.

Dalits constitute for 16% of India's population that makes their absolute population stand at 180 million of which you could only come up with 26000 cases which is less than 0.0014%. Now I suppose thats a very fair percentage by your terms. BTW, no where did I read in the report that Dalits are forced to vote against their will, a tripe that you have been harping upon since your first post.

26,000 cases is quite a bit. These were just violent cases - most go unreported as the report acknowledges. The real figure is so big it's unknown. And it is a well known fact the upper castes inflict political punishment to make Dalits vote a particular way

Throughout this report, Human Rights Watch has documented the use of sexual abuse and other forms of violence against Dalit women as tools by landlords and the police to inflict political “lessons” and crush dissent and labor movements within Dalit communities
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/india/India994-11.htm

This is no democracy when impunity like this exists in elections.

And how would you describe the day to day life discrimination that dalits face? By having their hands cutoff if they vote against the will of Upper caste? You have again contadicted yourself here when you speak of government offering Job Quotas to them, a far cry from your earlier statement. BTW, there are over 15 million government jobs in India of which dalits have a share of 4 million and that includes representation at the highest level including civil services. Indian Railway itself comprises of 1.6 million jobs.

4 million Dalits might very well be employed. This is 2% of Dalits. So 2% of people are given some hope. The other 98% wallow away in the same racist situation they were in before. This is no step to improve Dalit situation. The situation needs to be resolved by giving them more power. Giving them ceremonial roles is nothing. Power roles is what they need. Judiciary roles. How many Dalits are head of the judiciary, like the Hindu guy in Pakistan?

No where does UN states that Dalits are forced to vote against their will. I decry to accept your line. Now, call me racist.

It's a known fact they are forced to vote against their will in lots of reports.

I havn't subjected my Knowledge of English vocabulary & grammer open to your assesment. It is fairly evident to me that you aren't a professor of English literature at Oxford. So, kindly concentrate on subject matter rather than passing juvenile statement on my level of english knowledge. If you are having any trouble comprehending words or statements then word reference is at your service

http://dictionary.reference.com/

Dud, all i'm saying is you're trying so hard with your posts you're making yourself look a bit thick. That's just a personal opinion

Actually you couldn't otherwise you would've known that the majority of them belong to OBC category. But then accepting the fact is against your dogmatic principles.

Meant I couldnt in the above post. But the majority in Bharati politics are upper castes that form around 15% of the population. There's a much smaller amount of lower caste people in the Bharati politics, even though they form the majority of the population. How is it democracy when the politicians do not reflect the people?

So the rest of the world is devoid of any intellect & You along with that (H)ooker prize winner belong to the enlightened illuminati. If that makes you happy so be it.

I rest my case.

So she's a hooker because she has a different viewpoint to you. All the more reason to think she's right.
 
.
Road runner, seems you are not on this forum to learn and debate. Rather your entire aim here is to impose your own agenda with absolute nonsensical logic. lol Go ahead, fire away.

Just know, if you are arguing with Indians to make them see the light of your ways, its a waste of time and your energy. Just like we Indians cannot convince you that Pakistan is the hell hole of the world, you cannot convince us that India is one.

Kapish ?
 
.
Road runner, seems you are not on this forum to learn and debate. Rather your entire aim here is to impose your own agenda with absolute nonsensical logic. lol Go ahead, fire away.

Just know, if you are arguing with Indians to make them see the light of your ways, its a waste of time and your energy. Just like we Indians cannot convince you that Pakistan is the hell hole of the world, you cannot convince us that India is one.

Kapish ?

Not what I said. Only argument is that India isn't a true democracy. The will of the few upper castes is reflected, not the majority of the lower castes.
 
.
Not what I said. Only argument is that India isn't a true democracy. The will of the few upper castes is reflected, not the majority of the lower castes.


We have lots of issues in INDIA and we all agree it is not perfect ... moreover changes are done but on very slow rate ... we all INDIANS expect it to be much faster ... and certainly we are not putting over head in sand and saying every thing is spot on .... last but not least in INDIA we do accept results given by people gracefully and power is transferred in a democratic way and gosh there is not role of army or mullas .......;)
 
.
Of course you accept the results of elections because majority of Indian aka Bharati internet users are upper castes, so they accept an upper caste winning. The Dalits and lower castes need to just sit and accept it, else they will be beaten into submission if they demand more rights or a Dalit/lower caste run party. How is it democracy when the minority upper castes rule Bharati politics?
 
.
Of course you accept the results of elections because majority of Indian aka Bharati internet users are upper castes, so they accept an upper caste winning. The Dalits and lower castes need to just sit and accept it, else they will be beaten into submission if they demand more rights or a Dalit/lower caste run party. How is it democracy when the minority upper castes rule Bharati politics?
Please provide proof of your statement 'majority of Indian aka Bharati internet users are upper castes'...
Strangely you sidestepped query about army and mullas any way .... can you please provide proof that in last general elections 'The Dalits and lower castes need to just sit and accept it, else they will be beaten into submission' ... atleast there has to be some basis for allegations and discussions .... by the way two biggest states ie. UP and Bihar are ruled by people who belong to these castes ......
 
.
Road runner, seems you are not on this forum to learn and debate. Rather your entire aim here is to impose your own agenda with absolute nonsensical logic. lol Go ahead, fire away.

Just know, if you are arguing with Indians to make them see the light of your ways, its a waste of time and your energy. Just like we Indians cannot convince you that Pakistan is the hell hole of the world, you cannot convince us that India is one.

Kapish ?

Well blitz,

You will soon learn that you have better things than bang your head against a wall. well I have just did that and I hope you will learn things atleast from my experience which is just two pages before, i.e. never try driving sense into ****.
 
.
Well blitz,

You will soon learn that you have better things than bang your head against a wall. well I have just did that and I hope you will learn things atleast from my experience which is just two pages before, i.e. never try driving sense into ****.

Dont worry bro will do something for this boy !!;)
 
. . .
Of course you accept the results of elections because majority of Indian aka Bharati internet users are upper castes, so they accept an upper caste winning. The Dalits and lower castes need to just sit and accept it, else they will be beaten into submission if they demand more rights or a Dalit/lower caste run party. How is it democracy when the minority upper castes rule Bharati politics?

Well the upper caste BJP was routed in the last election. Most of the local parties are run by non upper castes.
 
.
What you been smoking?!! The GoI wants all the votes it can get, so it gives perks to the lower castes which some Dalits fall for, the majority do not, and this majority then are FORCED. This is the second time I've seen you making an utter bonga of yourself with your logic.

Your argument is sinking low faster than a rock in brine. Once again, you are trying to make a lame argument with your fractured & utterly confused logic. Let me summarize what you've said so far.

Lower Caste are devoid of their free voting rights which is controlled by Upper Cate. You try to argue this point by saying that if given a free will lower caste would vote for a party which would offer them more jobs & other social perks. This arguement was busted by Adux, Bhangra & other members when they described you about the nature of politics in India. Next you say that Lower Caste are illiterate & therefore cannot make a proper judgement in voting. Now your arguement that GoI is trying to entice them with perks into voting for them. Now, if the lower castes are forced into voting against their will then why would government try so hard to lure them instead of getting their upper caste masters into submitting them to vote. Your current arguement is in total paradox to your earlier statement. You presented your own set of sources & none of them proclaimed that lower caste members are devoid of their free will to vote.

How about you take some time, read carefully & then come & discuss rather than displaying your tomfoolery in every new post?

26,000 cases is quite a bit. These were just violent cases - most go unreported as the report acknowledges. The real figure is so big it's unknown. And it is a well known fact the upper castes inflict political punishment to make Dalits vote a particular way

This is no democracy when impunity like this exists in elections.

And the lower caste people come to you to report those otherwise un-reported cases. Rather than letting your horses run wild in the meadows of imagination how about you give me a figure? No matter whatever be the actual figure it would still be a mere fraction of the total Scheduled Caste population. It is indeed surprising to me that you turn up with number of mere 26000 and then make a hyperbolic claim that majority of dalits are subjugated.

Even these actual cases would stand in shodow of the attrocities committed by Pakistani government on Mohajirs, Baluchis, Sindhis. No wonder why Mohajir leader is living in exile & has called the partition as the biggest mistake in subcontinent's history.

4 million Dalits might very well be employed. This is 2% of Dalits. So 2% of people are given some hope. The other 98% wallow away in the same racist situation they were in before. This is no step to improve Dalit situation. The situation needs to be resolved by giving them more power.

If could see beyond your confused logic, you should know that 180 million figure includes children & old people. So these 4 million jobs are reserved for around 7-8% of working population of Dalits. A substantial percentage given the resources India has got. Apart from these 4 million jobs they are eligible for general category incase they qualify for merit. That would be another 7.5 - 8 million jobs. They have 22.5% reservation in every public & private institute. I am not sure of actual number but it would definately run in tens of millions. So nobody is stopping them from acquiring education & turning a better life for themselves & most of them have already did.

Giving them ceremonial roles is nothing. Power roles is what they need. Judiciary roles. How many Dalits are head of the judiciary, like the Hindu guy in Pakistan?

Instead of asking me to spoonfeed you with every detail how about you google up & see for yourself. Why do you expect me to hold your little finger & take you there. There is every details of High court, Magisterate court & lower court judges available on Google. Do some D-I-Y.

Holding the president's office is a mere ceremonial token then I wonder why Musharuff tried so hard to become one.

It's a known fact they are forced to vote against their will in lots of reports.

If fact is whats known as banal dogmatic beliefs in your head then so be it. As for the reports I didn't read anywhere & you failed to provide me with one unless you are planning to write one yourself.

Dud, all i'm saying is you're trying so hard with your posts you're making yourself look a bit thick. That's just a personal opinion

And you could see the sweat & blood I was pouring into to dispell your hyperbole? or was it again another of those things obvious to your confused mind? If its you who got lost in translation then don't throw it back on me.

Meant I couldnt in the above post. But the majority in Bharati politics are upper castes that form around 15% of the population. There's a much smaller amount of lower caste people in the Bharati politics, even though they form the majority of the population. How is it democracy when the politicians do not reflect the people?

So if you couldn't then why are you arguing on the matter that you least know about. When I presented you a list which clearly specifies that majority of the members belonging to 'Other backward caste' then why is it so hard for you to fit this in your narrow reticule of understanding. You are clearly a miser. Miser of words & miser of thoughts. You don't seem to think beyond your 1-dimensional thinking which is marred with confusion & chaos. If OBCs are in majority at highest level in politics then how can the politics still be controlled by Upper caste? Or, are you implying that the is some kind of pseudo-force on top of them? If so, then your demented logic has just notched up few more levels in idiocy.

So she's a hooker because she has a different viewpoint to you. All the more reason to think she's right.

Judgement of right & wrong is now going to be determined by you & your illuminati-clan. God save us!!!!
 
. .

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom