Imran Khan ‘convinced’ Kayani on phased pullout from FATA

[Mav3rick]

oh comm on,read to what recently IK said abt it.....these ppl were first ur HEROS in Afghan vs Russia war....u ppl first groomed them,encouraged them used them for ur motives then when US wanted to go against them,u ppl too went against them obeying US blindly like real losers n beggers.....

why did u have to do such hypocrisy n adopt such double standards if now you care so much of the lifes of ur ppl being lost in their hands...

peley sochna tha na! ab bugto

Afghanistan Talibaan decide to boot out TTP from Afghanistan
Mullah Omar-led Afghan Talibaan ready to attack Pakistani Talibaan
Mullah Omar disowns TTP

I have grown extremely weary, and frustrated, at the stupidity of Pakistanis who fail to understand the difference b/w a freedom fighter and a terrorist!

Mullah Omar led Talibaan, which includes the Haqqani network, are true freedom fighters who engage NATO & US in Afghanistan. Need I remind you that both NATO and US initiated an illegal war in Afghanistan? Those who fight for the freedom of their country against invaders are usually called patriots and heroes.

TTP or Pakistani Talibaan have a different agenda, to exploit the name of Talibaan and to attach it to terrorist activities. They are a group of foreign funded, at times extremely well trained mercenaries, supremely armed and extremely well informed. It is no surprise that they are funded & trained by RAW in Afghanistan and sent in to Pakistan to 1) Destabilize Pakistan, 2) Produce Talibaan as terrorists & 3) Keep alive the hype created by certain countries of threat that Pakistani Nuclear Weapons may fall in the wrong hands!!

P.S. When the US says you are either with us or against us, it takes a lot of international support to say 'We are not going to be a part of your war'!!

 

[Mav3rick]

That is not the question you should ask. The question is, why should Imran Khan need to convince Kayani in the first place? What is Kayani's position according to his job description? He is supposed to serve the people of Pakistan and is hence bound to obey the parliament of which Imran Khan is a member.

The very fact that he needs to convince Kayani shows that there is no "Tabdeeli" or "Naya Pakistan" in place.
First, because the Army leadership does not still consider Civilian leadership as competent enough(Which is partially correct but arrogant and completely obtrusive as well)
Second, because even Imran Khan has realized that his vision of Naya Pakistan is not a 5 year game and not one he can play...he simply has to work on Purana Pakistan, naya bathroom.

Quite an incorrect assessment. Imran Khan is a single parliamentarian and the COAS has no obligation to listen to his diktat. The COAS receives his orders from the President, Prime Minister and the MoD, not from the Parliament. Technically, the COAS is answerable only to the supreme commander of the armed forces, the President of Pakistan.

Furthermore, it has mattered not what the Army wanted, the Army is being withdrawn from this war as per the wishes of the parliamentarians, but the order has to come through proper channel and IK is no authority.

 

[Mav3rick]

this story is ambiguous

the decision to start operation in FATA was not a political gains/ loss but purely military, to take on the elements that were defined as enemy of the state and the threat to region/ world peace. the inaction presented far bigger threat and loss than the Qomi ghairat and sovereignty (with the TTP dismisses anyway)


with this in mind, pray tell what qualification did Imran Khan had to convince that withdrawing from the FATA was a good thing to do? whenever army gave way the TTP consolidated, punished the locals, slaughtered the Maliks and eliminated the leadership of tribal hierarchy. the state backed tribal militias stood no chance against the petro-dollar funded TTP who give Pak military run for its money. as per the SSG major who has led assaults against TTP, they have faced the TTP always using AP rounds, and are always equipped with the state of the art assault gear and are hardly surprised whenever attacked.

TTP will bring the front line to the suburbs of Peshawar and Hayatabad if you give way. the only gain here I see is political and some praise from the population living safely overseas and other settled areas of Pakistan. the say of the tribal area people doesnt really matter here because either they are with the TTP (or are sadly history or IDP).

having said that, I would welcome any dialogue with moderate elements (who are only defending themselves) or can be persuaded to berak way. but I dont think its easy.
the only way out of TTP fold is death. if the TTP doesnt get them, then the CIA drones get them. Naik Mohammad remember anyone?


its a childish notion that the people of tribal areas have picked up arms because of drones, they pass through the beheaded corpses of our soldiers hung in the bazars as if they are animals. has anyone seen the TTP fatwas for their favourite targets? how they advocate rape and murder?

this is a war of attrition and our only chance to fight them is to use their tactics on them, through targeted operations but its easier said than done. there are routes to and from Afghanistan and to the rest of the settled Pakistan, if they are not manned then the current chaos will only get worse.

Extremely well said. I would like to add to it though, once US & NATO withdraws from Afghanistan, the real Talibaan (Mullah Omar & Haqqanis) will be able to divert the attention, albeit partially, towards the Pakistani Talibaan and can assist the PakMil in their absolute annihilation.

 

[Mav3rick]

thn dont talk loud, present yourself & scarifice ur head frist?
islam doesnt teach to fight its enemies, but it teaches to, win minds & hearts through its kindness?
BTW was mallala yousfzai was the enemy of allaha?
thats why she was been the target of the, so called warroirers of allha?
no she wasnt!
stop living in the utopia created by some torabara mullha! no its nt islam?

I'd rather we left Malala out of this debate/discussion. There are too many ifs and buts with her story and too many other sad stories left behind.

Just to give you some food for thought, my cousin had an accident and she accidentally shot herself in the temple, the bullet exited roughly 2 -3 inches away from the temple, at an upward angle. It took my 6 months to recover enough to be able to spit out words, another 2 years till she could sit or walk (with support) after intense physical therapy. Even then, she spent 5+ years with an almost paralyzed half body. The sadness goes on and on. Malala's recovery is just beyond belief and the showers of prizes, awards and extreme international recognition is just too much to be right.

And my cousin was a Canadian citizen so she had access to the best medical support available. She still walks with a limp (14 years later) and needs a cane, her arm too is significantly weak.

 

[tarrar]

Stupid move if true.

Army when entered FATA they were welcomed by people.

Lets make permanent cantonments in FATA and use the army for development there.


TTP must be fought out and phased out rapidly. TTP is no friend to anyone.

IK is truly a brainless person. I don't know why he is like that.

 

[batmannow]

I'd rather we left Malala out of this debate/discussion. There are too many ifs and buts with her story and too many other sad stories left behind.

Just to give you some food for thought, my cousin had an accident and she accidentally shot herself in the temple, the bullet exited roughly 2 -3 inches away from the temple, at an upward angle. It took my 6 months to recover enough to be able to spit out words, another 2 years till she could sit or walk (with support) after intense physical therapy. Even then, she spent 5+ years with an almost paralyzed half body. The sadness goes on and on. Malala's recovery is just beyond belief and the showers of prizes, awards and extreme international recognition is just too much to be right.

And my cousin was a Canadian citizen so she had access to the best medical support available. She still walks with a limp (14 years later) and needs a cane, her arm too is significantly weak.

sorry friend. but if mallala has survived is thats the problem?
why we keep doubting everything, even its cyrstal clear?
i really wish good luck to ur cousin, & faster recovry of her health, but she hvnt has the medical accesses & the level of care like mallala who has became the icon of the misstreatment carried out by the terrorists?
with that said, there were clear acceptence, by the terrorists that they did shot her, now some of thier bigger dogs even writting letters to her? just google it adnan rashid,s letter to mallala?
its enough proof, that she was the target of them?
its very important, to see this horible inccident in the backdrop of the title of this thread, in which a non-experince leader is trying to give KPK, in a plate to terrorists?
just because he became, so dejected of his party,s performence in the genrl elections which he thought, his party gona sweep & he is going to be the PM?
now, he want to keep the power in KPK for next 5 years!
for any price he can pay?

 

[batmannow]

You claim to be a pathan from niazi tribe yet you are calling them bacha baz? you are also a staunch supporter of anti-pashtun party like MQM............who exactly are you? why are you trolling? why you are on mission of defaming Niazi qaum?

off topic, reported!
my support to MQM is because thier role in sindh,s politics, where there is no major player against, wadera,s of PPP, my likes or dislikes dosent matters to my tribe?
NIAZI hve a bigger political history in pakistan from mullana kusar niazi to mullana abdus sattar niazi?
from sher afghan khan niazi to inam ullha then imran khan?
i will defend my tribe if some 1 tries to screw it up for nothing & his political or un moral intersts?
& just because of it, PTI lost it from mianwalli? NA 71?
bachey bazi is & was a common bad practice in all the major pushtun areas, i dont like & i think no educated pushtun will ever going to like it, cause its product of close mind mullaha madersha,s the same, madersha. which are involved in producing SS bombers?
yes the same SS bombers, who kill un countable numbers of pushtuns & pakistanis?
& if imran wants to give them free hand, by pulling pakarmy out of Kpk& fata then , i hve a duty on the fourm to critisize his idea & his approch towards that complex issue?
now stop this pushtun crap, be a pakistani frist!
cause i only belive in pakistan frist, no niazi frist or pushtun frist?

 

[Mav3rick]

sorry friend. but if mallala has survived is thats the problem?
why we keep doubting everything, even its cyrstal clear?
i really wish good luck to ur cousin, & faster recovry of her health, but she hvnt has the medical accesses & the level of care like mallala who has became the icon of the misstreatment carried out by the terrorists?
with that said, there were clear acceptence, by the terrorists that they did shot her, now some of thier bigger dogs even writting letters to her? just google it adnan rashid,s letter to mallala?
its enough proof, that she was the target of them?
its very important, to see this horible inccident in the backdrop of the title of this thread, in which a non-experince leader is trying to give KPK, in a plate to terrorists?
just because he became, so dejected of his party,s performence in the genrl elections which he thought, his party gona sweep & he is going to be the PM?
now, he want to keep the power in KPK for next 5 years!
for any price he can pay?

If we can establish and agree on the fact that TTP is indeed not related to Talibaan but is actually a rogue agency of hired guns/mercenaries formed by international forces to give Pakistan and Talibaan a bad name........we can then safely argue the legitimacy of any attack on Malala at all.

Even the pro Talibaan leader Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman had cast doubt on the so called attack on Malala. In any case, a bullet causes damage not only because of penetration but also because of the immense heat it generates. The bullet that is supposed to have hit Malala should technically have fried half her brain which means permanent disability and paralysis (that may heal over time).

Malala's recovery is phenomenal, it is 'impossible'!

 

[SQ8]

Quite an incorrect assessment. Imran Khan is a single parliamentarian and the COAS has no obligation to listen to his diktat. The COAS receives his orders from the President, Prime Minister and the MoD, not from the Parliament. Technically, the COAS is answerable only to the supreme commander of the armed forces, the President of Pakistan.

Furthermore, it has mattered not what the Army wanted, the Army is being withdrawn from this war as per the wishes of the parliamentarians, but the order has to come through proper channel and IK is no authority.

No, The MoD acts on the orders based on the decision of the cabinet. A Cabinet that decides the implementation of recommendations/resolutions by the parliament. Based on what the Cabinet decides, the MoD then instructs the Chief to carry out those orders. The PM or President may directly order the Chief, but our system has in principle the role of the President as ceremonial(and Zardari was right to return it to that role). for e.g.

Hence, the Chief is answerable to the Parliament as an institution of accountability.

 

[Mav3rick]

No, The MoD acts on the orders based on the decision of the cabinet. A Cabinet that decides the implementation of recommendations/resolutions by the parliament. Based on what the Cabinet decides, the MoD then instructs the Chief to carry out those orders. The PM or President may directly order the Chief, but our system has in principle the role of the President as ceremonial(and Zardari was right to return it to that role). for e.g.

Hence, the Chief is answerable to the Parliament as an institution of accountability.

Is this official flow of orders? Even if it is, the COAS is not bound to listen to any single Parliamentarian and only the instructions issued from the majority may be taken up. Will look more in to this sometime later.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Extremely well said. I would like to add to it though, once US & NATO withdraws from Afghanistan, the real Talibaan (Mullah Omar & Haqqanis) will be able to divert the attention, albeit partially, towards the Pakistani Talibaan and can assist the PakMil in their absolute annihilation.

one can only hope that the reason for TTP existence that they are punishing Pakistan army for its support of USA wont be there any more and maybe Afghan Taliban will attack and take out the TTP bases in Kunar and Daghistan who are being facilitated by Afghan government and some other foreign entities hostile to Pakistan.

but there is another horrid possibility that Afghan taliban might announce that they support shariah by sword in Pakistan too and may decide to assist their Debandi brothers in Pakistan.

 

[Zarvan]

thn dont talk loud, present yourself & scarifice ur head frist?
islam doesnt teach to fight its enemies, but it teaches to, win minds & hearts through its kindness?
BTW was mallala yousfzai was the enemy of allaha?
thats why she was been the target of the, so called warroirers of allha?
no she wasnt!
stop living in the utopia created by some torabara mullha! no its nt islam?

Mr who told you Islam doesn't teach to fight enemies Sir Islam teaches to fight and enemies and has promised ALLAH wrath on those who run away from fight or try to avoid it Sir Wars would be fought and those who would attack Muslims and Islam would be made history

 

[batmannow]

If we can establish and agree on the fact that TTP is indeed not related to Talibaan but is actually a rogue agency of hired guns/mercenaries formed by international forces to give Pakistan and Talibaan a bad name........we can then safely argue the legitimacy of any attack on Malala at all.

Even the pro Talibaan leader Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman had cast doubt on the so called attack on Malala. In any case, a bullet causes damage not only because of penetration but also because of the immense heat it generates. The bullet that is supposed to have hit Malala should technically have fried half her brain which means permanent disability and paralysis (that may heal over time).

Malala's recovery is phenomenal, it is 'impossible'!

if your mind cant take it, then its up to you, bt all these dam conspiracy theoriests failled misserably when adnan rasheed, the one of the biggest terrorist commanders, accepting mallala,s hit?
what is TTp?
TEHRIK E TALIBAN PAKISTAN what, is thier actions are?
if afghan talibans are so innocent, then why cant they just tell TTp to stop using thier name?
no my friend in comming future, you will going to explore the reality of that poison called islamic fundamentalism, born In the hands of CIA?
mullana fazlu was himself was a target, his statment on the mallala issue was just another efforts , to let terrorits become unrentfull towards him?
adnan rasheed is top gun of TTp when he is accepting that, what else proovs left to asume?

 

[batmannow]

Mr who told you Islam doesn't teach to fight enemies Sir Islam teaches to fight and enemies and has promised ALLAH wrath on those who run away from fight or try to avoid it Sir Wars would be fought and those who would attack Muslims and Islam would be made history

off topic reported!
dont trun the subject to your likes!
there you go?
thats what hve destroyed most of the islamic countires turning them , states like iraq & afghanistan?
&! thats what you guys want to see happening in pakistan?
islam only tells to seek jihad of every kind? but not only to kill peoples who are not any part of any war against islam?
dont try to teach tora bora defenation of islam , produced by stupid mullhas getting married with, 14 years old 4 times a week?
all this troop pullout will bring , a bigger problem thn SAWAT, IMRAN is mr nothing when it comes to, war , terrorism!

So you dont believe in Allah?

offtopic, abusive !
i dont need to tell you, who i belive or not?
cause you are mr, nothing to me?

 

[Mitro]

How can a sane Pakistani talk to TTP and want to have Peace with them when they consider you A Kaffir .
in the time of peace they will re group and gather more intell and strike again ,thats what they are doing
real peace will only come when you guys destroy them complete .