Importance of indigenization of defense industry.

[tanlixiang28776]

There are few countries in the world that can completely produce the entire spectrum of weapons without foreign help. The United States is the sole country that is capable of producing everything in their arsenal. Russia, and France produce almost everything but lacks a industry capable of producing advanced processors.

The importance of indigenization is that when bullets start flying any foreign produced component of a weapon is unreliable. 100% indigenization is the only solution for such a problem. You can not call 70% indigenous or even 99% indigenous as any component not entirely produced in your country is liable to restrictions.

China has only recently achieved complete indigenization of aircraft, ships, missiles, and such. Like France and Russia however China also lacks advanced indigenous processor producing facilities.

Self reliance in defense industries is a matter of state security and national pride in every country.

Please give your views on indigenization of defense industries.

 

[CardSharp]

China is still in transition from Russian engine dependency. But yes 100% indigenization very important in any conflict that isn't settled right away.

 

[duhastmish]

indigenousness of arms is not secluded from rest of technological indigenisation.

china have leaped alot on most technological fronts , they were bound to reach the same place in defense industry.

here they are not really depended on most other coutnry. and in case of war their self reliance will come very handy , they dont depend on diplomacy much.

a long way to go for them.

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on the other hand also indigenous products should have a few limit - its a social world , there are parts which are easily available of current generation if you try n invent something which is already done well - the process's worth become less than ordinary.

if you have access you must get the product from others and based on them do your research and development for next level or generation products.

also some coutnries which have small arms need - dont have to go for indigenous or self reliance on almost everything - because they are better off gettign the product from the shelf and put money in other programmes.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

China is still in transition from Russian engine dependency. But yes 100% indigenization very important in any conflict that isn't settled right away.

I understand that but China can now produce an entire fighter jet like the J11B with Chinese engines. Not to far in the future the J-20, J 10, and JF 17 will also run on Chinese engines. Don't worry the hard part of producing an entirely domestic engine is finally over. The next engines will be far easier to produce now.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Duhastmish

True but you should have the domestic ability to produce the weapon before offering to let others produce it for you. The U.S is a prime example of this. Do you think the U.S defense industry cannot produce trainers for the air force? Obviously not but still the U.S does this to force competition on its domestic suppliers to be better than others. First however you need the capability to produce the product before you can think of letting it compete for contracts with foreign suppliers

 

[no_name]

Only countries beyond a certain economic and HR size can affort to be fully indigenious in their defense industry across a whole spectrum.

 

[below_freezing]

There are few countries in the world that can completely produce the entire spectrum of weapons without foreign help. The United States is the sole country that is capable of producing everything in their arsenal. Russia, and France produce almost everything but lacks a industry capable of producing advanced processors.

The importance of indigenization is that when bullets start flying any foreign produced component of a weapon is unreliable. 100% indigenization is the only solution for such a problem. You can not call 70% indigenous or even 99% indigenous as any component not entirely produced in your country is liable to restrictions.

China has only recently achieved complete indigenization of aircraft, ships, missiles, and such. Like France and Russia however China also lacks advanced indigenous processor producing facilities.

Self reliance in defense industries is a matter of state security and national pride in every country.

Please give your views on indigenization of defense industries.

Depending on if you mean copy other microprocessors with our own equipment, or designing our own microprocessor, we can do both. What do you think SMIC is doing? They make processors for others, they just need to store the design information secretly and in war time, our fabs will be churning out Intel chips. Not the best and not military grade but it works. At best keeps our civilian sector working. In terms of chip design, Longxin is already at the level of a Pentium 4 from the late 90's. Microwave/radar components are made by Changhong Electronics independently.

There are no significant things we really cannot make. We can make everything, and while some are worse than their counterparts outside, its always better to make your own worse version than to buy a better version and be cut off in war.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Only countries beyond a certain economic and HR size can affort to be fully indigenious in their defense industry across a whole spectrum.

True but the most important defense industries like aircraft manufacturing should be indigenous even if it takes a lot of resources.
Processors especially should be indigenous as they are vital in almost every weapon.

 

[CardSharp]

Only countries beyond a certain economic and HR size can affort to be fully indigenious in their defense industry across a whole spectrum.

Importing arms makes sense from an economic point of view, but not from a security point of view. It would more efficient if there was a division of labour and if one country specialize in tanks while another country specialized in planes. A clearly ridiculous security situation.

 

[below_freezing]

Importing arms makes sense from an economic point of view, but not from a security point of view. It would more efficient if there was a division of labour and if one country specialize in tanks while another country specialized in planes. A clearly ridiculous security situation.

Sounds like middle eastern countries that import all the "best and newest weapons" from different countries. Terrible logistics with F-16s and EF-2000 flying alongside each other and being unable to even fix the engine.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

below freezing,

I didn't say we or the other countries couldn't make processors but that we can't make advanced processors. Processors are used in almost all technologically advanced weapons. When we are only capable of producing 1990's processors then all our weapons will be at a huge disadvantage. No matter how far we advance in stealth or engine technology we will be technologically inferior to the United states just due to this often overlooked technology.

However money is pouring into programs for our fabs. This will take vast time and resources but the future is promising. We are looking to leapfrog the 32mm directly to 28mm chips just like we skipped PESA and went directly to AESA

 

[CardSharp]

Sounds like middle eastern countries that import all the "best and newest weapons" from different countries. Terrible logistics with F-16s and EF-2000 flying alongside each other and being unable to even fix the engine.

Just imagine how fast you would lose an air fleet to battle attrition, if you could not provide spare parts or a competent ground crew.

 

[duhastmish]

Duhastmish

True but you should have the domestic ability to produce the weapon before offering to let others produce it for you. The U.S is a prime example of this. Do you think the U.S defense industry cannot produce trainers for the air force? Obviously not but still the U.S does this to force competition on its domestic suppliers to be better than others. First however you need the capability to produce the product before you can think of letting it compete for contracts with foreign suppliers

china have reached the industrialization level where it can produce almost anything from a pensil to rocket.

still a long way to go. because their research and development is in process. the technolgy they have put forward is somethign which is already there.

in next 5-10 years i expect china to be where west and us is . to INVENT some machine which is not there.

they should surely make their own product if not for anything but export. because one thing which work in Chinese courtyard is - their product are economically viable.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

china have reached the industrialization level where it can produce almost anything from a pensil to rocket.

still a long way to go. because their research and development is in process. the technolgy they have put forward is somethign which is already there.

in next 5-10 years i expect china to be where west and us is . to INVENT some machine which is not there.

they should surely make their own product if not for anything but export. because one thing which work in Chinese courtyard is - their product are economically viable.

This will not happen reliably until China surpasses the U.S economy. China still has a much smaller research budget compared to the U.S. They need to produce things for now before they can think of the future.

 

[cross1993]

except indigenization of defense industry.
We also need to ensure that food needs to meet the most rely on our own. We want to protect our agricultural, subsidies to farmers.
We also need to limit the exploitation of domestic mineral, protecting our resources.