IMPLEMENT system of ALLAH

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Uh, what if I don't want to be a part of that?

Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?

I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom?

I cant believe anyone would be against the idea of a good life Unc...

I do agree that it scares people... but then people are misinformed and unless we have the state backing us with a strong media we cannot dispel all myths about the Caliphate... And after all this, if you still have a problem with something in the IS, feel free to give me a call... I ll sort something out for you if I can within the law...

I think its important to understand here that Islam like Capitalism and Communism seeks domination... Its a different matter than UNLIKE Communism and Capitalism it wins people over using intellectual discourse instead of just brutal bloodshed (Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam etc)

God says in the Quran... (TMQ) It is Allah who sent His Messenger with Guidance and the system of Truth so it overcomes/dominates all other systems, even though the Mushrikeen (those who ascribe partners to God's power) hate it...

The Prophet said... (translation) The Earth was shown to me shrunk so I saw its east and I saw its west and surely the dominion of Islam shall overcome all the Earth...

He also said... (translation) Islam dominates and nothing dominates above Islam

I just remembered another one... (translation)... Islam shall enter each and every house in the dunya (world)

You can still believe what you want to believe... Currently I believe Islam is a good idea but I m still forced to live under a cruel and evil ideology of Capitalism... (they re taking away all my money in taxes I swear)... and thats regardless of where I am be it Pakistan or Iran or Europe...

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I want to share a incident related to this subject.
Last night around 12 I was thinking about the current Muslim world situation through the eyes of Islam. I went to the bathroom and continued the process of deep thinking about the ruling system and came to a conclusion that we must only enjoy what Allah has revealed. I believe their is no way how Muslim world can implement a true forum of khalifah because the virus has grown out of control and is incurable by us before the arrival of mehdi of course.. the virus = Secular, liberal, nationalistic, intolerant, Jahaliyaa, society which many Muslims have failed to recognize and seem to have a great time with it. So what ever the UnIslamic ruling system be it dictatorship secularism democracy etc must not be enjoyed by Muslims as the best solution but as a mean of survival only. Like living in a place where only pork is available and should only be consumed with grief and must not be enjoyed.
Just like that a screw from a door hinge dropped next to the sink! Even if the screw was lose then it was not suppose to be dropped on that spot!
A jinn case defiantly.

 

[Chogy]

Gentlemen - I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are truly puzzled as to why it is unattractive to non-Muslims, and perhaps Muslims who don't believe in a Caliphate.

The majority of the people in the world believe a Government serves the people... that is its job. A government should not be created to serve God. That is the job of Churches and Mosques.

While there have been many Christian nations in the past, in the sense that a nation is declared Christian, and non-Christians are at a disadvantage, there is nothing scripturally that calls for this. Christian Theology deals with an individual's relationship with God, and even Jesus said

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; render unto God that which is God's"

meaning authority exists which is entirely separate from the Kingdom of God. There was no blueprint for a Christian government within the Bible, and those that forced it turned into despots, with much suffering, because man is by definition imperfect and typically evil, and despite the best efforts, without actual divine intervention, such constructs almost always fail.

I understand Pakistan is not the Caliphate, but when we see things like a Christian woman sentenced to death for insulting Islam, it absolutely freaks us out. You can claim such things wouldn't happen in the Caliphate, but what guarantee is there?

The only worthwhile form of governance is total freedom to worship or not, and to separate government function from religion.

All of the Abrahamic religions have bizarre and twisted laws and rules that were perhaps applicable for their time, but no more... do we burn astrologers, stone adulterers? Some still want to, apparently.

To summarize - it is impossible to treat all people fairly under a religious system. It won't happen, can't happen. And perhaps most importantly, to advocate the export, possibly by force, of a world-wide Caliphate - it scares the crap out of people. The majority of the people of this world would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. I wouldn't want a Christian government either, because of the chance of abuses, and because there are millions, billions of people who do not want it.

 

[nForce]

I want to share a incident related to this subject.
Last night around 12 I was thinking about the current Muslim world situation through the eyes of Islam. I went to the bathroom and continued the process of deep thinking about the ruling system and came to a conclusion that we must only enjoy what Allah has revealed. I believe their is no way how Muslim world can implement a true forum of khalifah because the virus has grown out of control and is incurable by us before the arrival of mehdi of course.. the virus = Secular, liberal, nationalistic, intolerant, Jahaliyaa, society which many Muslims have failed to recognize and seem to have a great time with it. So what ever the UnIslamic ruling system be it dictatorship secularism democracy etc must not be enjoyed by Muslims as the best solution but as a mean of survival only. Like living in a place where only pork is available and should only be consumed with grief and must not be enjoyed.
Just like that a screw from a door hinge dropped next to the sink! Even if the screw was lose then it was not suppose to be dropped on that spot!
A jinn case defiantly.

I think the bold part is contradictory...How can a society be secular,liberal and intolerant at the same point of time??

Even if you mean different kinds of society,still,how can a secular and liberal society be termed as a virus?What is wrong with such a society??

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I think the bold part is contradictory...How can a society be secular,liberal and intolerant at the same point of time??

Even if you mean different kinds of society,still,how can a secular and liberal society be termed as a virus?What is wrong with such a society??

Prove me wrong that Liberal or secular society is compatible with Islam! Thats why we dont prefer Indian to comments on subject of which they have ZERO knowledge!

 

[1 ummah]

Uh, what if I don't want to be a part of that?

Do you realize that this kind of talk (you are not alone in it) scares people and contributes to anti-Islamic sentiment?

I've got an amazing idea. How about letting people believe how they want to believe, and set up a society that gives people this freedom?

if u r muslim u have to obey ALLAH my dear..ISLAM IS NOT TO QUESTION BUT TO FOLLOW!!n if non-muslim u will be given freedm to practice bt sm restrictions e.g ..interest,drinkin(openly n selling),covering (living as dhimi/zimi,non-muslim citizn ov islamic state)

N YES ONC WE HAVE PROPER ISLAMIC STATE contradicting t all hori-tales abt islam n its system..your fears will be flushed..!..

u know wat reverts to islam say abt this deen???

 

[nForce]

Prove me wrong that Liberal or secular society is compatible with Islam! Thats why we dont prefer Indian to comments on subject of which they have ZERO knowledge!

Where did Islam land here out of nowhere??Extrapolating things ehhh???Can you actually read what I wrote in my post?? I am not even remotely relating things with Islam here.I know,for a fact,that there are many liberal Islamic societies.

Hence,question of proving right,wrong whatever,doesnt even come to the picture....In the mean time,why dont you try answering my questions??They are at least based on exact quote of your post.....

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Gentlemen - I understand what you are saying, and I believe you are truly puzzled as to why it is unattractive to non-Muslims, and perhaps Muslims who don't believe in a Caliphate.

The majority of the people in the world believe a Government serves the people... that is its job. A government should not be created to serve God. That is the job of Churches and Mosques.

While there have been many Christian nations in the past, in the sense that a nation is declared Christian, and non-Christians are at a disadvantage, there is nothing scripturally that calls for this. Christian Theology deals with an individual's relationship with God, and even Jesus said

"Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's; render unto God that which is God's"

meaning authority exists which is entirely separate from the Kingdom of God. There was no blueprint for a Christian government within the Bible, and those that forced it turned into despots, with much suffering, because man is by definition imperfect and typically evil, and despite the best efforts, without actual divine intervention, such constructs almost always fail.

I understand Pakistan is not the Caliphate, but when we see things like a Christian woman sentenced to death for insulting Islam, it absolutely freaks us out. You can claim such things wouldn't happen in the Caliphate, but what guarantee is there?

The only worthwhile form of governance is total freedom to worship or not, and to separate government function from religion.

All of the Abrahamic religions have bizarre and twisted laws and rules that were perhaps applicable for their time, but no more... do we burn astrologers, stone adulterers? Some still want to, apparently.

To summarize - it is impossible to treat all people fairly under a religious system. It won't happen, can't happen. And perhaps most importantly, to advocate the export, possibly by force, of a world-wide Caliphate - it scares the crap out of people. The majority of the people of this world would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. I wouldn't want a Christian government either, because of the chance of abuses, and because there are millions, billions of people who do not want it.

Taking the last part first, there are millions who actually want it... The trick is to shift the power in the hands of those who want it and know what to do with it...

There are fundamental flaws in your argument Unc... Firstly you are comparing Islam with Christinity... the problem there is which you have noticed yourself... that Christianity does not provide a framework for a government... this is not the case for Islam which does provide such a framework and that is the Caliphate... not only it provided this framework but this framework worked for more than a thousand years in various forms (some better than others and the best being the Rashideen)...

Secondly we are not puzzled why it is unattractive to non Muslims or so called Muslims... we know from the example of the Prophet that the majority of people will stick to status quo in the name of tradition, benefit, custom, tribe/nation etc... it is the few who bring about the change... what would be puzzling would be that people do not join the Caliphate en masse because once the system starts operating one of its beauty has been that people join it and support it... in the expression of the Quran AFWAJA i.e Entire Armies of People joining it... this is because a living example is better than theoretical concepts...

Thirdly the majority of people DO NOT believe that governments serve people... they believe that it SHOULD serve the people...

IS is not supposed to serve God only... rather serve people in accordance with the way God has commanded... This is where juris comes in... you have to have a law to sort out the conflicts that can arise amongst people... in that regard Islam orders the setting up of courts and implementation of justice according to legislation contained in the Quran and Sunnah... It has absolutely nothing to do with personal worship in this regard... So IS serves both God and Man... The Bible describes it as... Thy Kingdom Come... Thy will be done... On Earth... Like it is done in the Heavens!!!

People are scared because of punishment? Well a Christian woman should have better sense not to insult Islam/Muhammad living amongst Muslims... the application of the blasphemy law is obviously a bad joke in Pakistan as whatever is happening in Pakistan in itself is blasphemy, but in the Caliphate once it is proven that someone has deliberately insulted Muhammad saw he/she will be executed in public... same goes for those who commit adultery... and before people panic... heres the interesting part... In 1300 years of the Caliphate only three people were ever stoned... two based on confessions... point being its next to impossible to prove Adultery... also there is no need for anyone to insult Muhammad because every law in the Caliphate can be challenged in a court... the Caliphate is the very name of the honor and dignity of Muslims restored to them... in the past the noble Caliph Sultan Abdul Hameed Thani even threatened war against Britain over this issue of blasphemy and despite the weakness of the Ottomans the Brits were careful not to have Jihad Akbar declared against them... so they desisted... today it has gone to the extent that with stooges like Busharaf and Zardari sitting on top of hundreds and thousands of armed troops the lands, honor, dignity and wealth of Muslims is not safe... in the name of freedom of speech we have been insulted by the infidel west... we will make this stop by making an example out of the first few who dare insult our Prophet again... watch this space... the SSG has yet to be used with its full potential

I totally disagree with the idea of people not being treated fairly under Islam... You can certainly say Christianity but not Islam... I wrote a little comment earlier but it did nt get posted... but there are a zillion examples of non Muslims living prosperously under the Caliphate... Do check out the story of Zildjian Cymbals when you have time... you ll love it if you are into Drumming...

Islam is supposed to scare those who hold hostility against Muslims and the ideology... that goes for all ideologies... I mean Capitalists were nt really celebrities under Communism were they? and Che Guvera is nt really a hero of any US president... The clash is there folks... the only thing you can do here is choose your side wisely... because this world is going to end... and life after death can either be a blessing or worse than the worst nightmares...

 

[SQ8]

... we will make this stop by making an example out of the first few who dare insult our Prophet again... watch this space... the SSG has yet to be used with its full potential
..

You counting on the "luck o the irish" then to get to happen
Blasphemers are like leprechauns.. they'll vanish and wont give you any of their pot......




of gold that is.

 

[VCheng]

May I please have some of what he is smoking?

 

[SQ8]

May I please have some of what he is smoking?

You are better off with a bollinger 68...
Its less harmful.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Where did Islam land here out of nowhere??Extrapolating things ehhh???Can you actually read what I wrote in my post?? I am not even remotely relating things with Islam here.I know,for a fact,that there are many liberal Islamic societies.

Hence,question of proving right,wrong whatever,doesnt even come to the picture....In the mean time,why dont you try answering my questions??They are at least based on exact quote of your post.....

An over smart Indian that you are so before telling others to read the post I advice you read the thread title and then my post which you replied to. IN FACT THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS ABOUT ISLAM ISLAM AND ISLAM AND SO IS MY POST!
And oh, their is no such thing as "Liberal Islamic societies" because its a matter created by Muslims! Prophet Mohammed PBUH clearly said that who ever invented anything in our matter (religion=Islam) which is not part of it, will have it rejected! Muslims ever since the death of prophet Mohammed PBUH have invented soooo many things and presented it as Islam which is a rejection according to our prophet. Now if you would have adequate comprehension level you would know that Liberal societies is not "ISLAM" at most it could be Muslim Societies and Muslim does not equates to Islam automatically.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

May I please have some of what he is smoking?

Is that supposed to insult me?

Fine... You are the type of scum that would sell his mother for a cheap price right?

Well if that offended you... how do you think that Islamic State based in the name of ISLAM and MUHAMMAD's teachings is supposed to react when someone insults the messenger... When Muhammad saw is much greater and honorable than your mother... You got offended by my statement above did nt you? why is it that you think those who talk about retaliation against blasphemers must be smoking something?

You are an idiot of the highest order... If you cant contribute appropriately here its better you do not comment...

You have been trying to act like a smartass here around my comments for quite some time... I would recommend that you rotate off and get a life...

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

You counting on the "luck o the irish" then to get to happen
Blasphemers are like leprechauns.. they'll vanish and wont give you any of their pot......




of gold that is.

As I said Santro... watch this space...

and how would you feel if I insulted your mother??

Do you really want me to now? Lets see now?? Tell me... If you want me to insult your mother just say it here... and dont be smoking any pot by not banning me... see... thats hard now considering you are a moderator on this forum... I insult your mother so badly and you not doing anything despite having all the power of being able to virtually kill me from this forum...

Go on then what is it going to be... perhaps I m pushing it... but then an indication is enough for a wise man...

you might not be that person though... so I ll tell you what yeah... unlike you i believe that everyone should be respected and specially around their beliefs...

Peace

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

You are better off with a bollinger 68...
Its less harmful.

Its less harmful than Islam? Or is it less harmful than pot?

No wonder Pakistan has become the place it is... These are the elites running our country and our forums...

sad beyond all sadness...

khair... watch this space... the days of your "type" running the show are definitely going to come to an end... inshaAllah and amen to that