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If you say these FACTS; you become SECTARIAN on PDF....We need some clear rules on this

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See how iranian defenders now come and blame Pakistan. Pakistan shud have quarantined, Pakistan also uses proxy, why turkey attacked (not y pakistani shias were there).
Iranian stooges should know that its courtesy to inform ur neighbor and not overwhelm them. Pakistan put quarantine facility on border and these iranian stooges started jumping and were let go by none other than an iranian agent in govt, zulfi bukhari, who happens to be shia as well. Pakistan requested to send them slowly yet they were all pushed. Pakistan closed border and IRGC helped sneak them in on hidden routes.
What about iran being indian ally? Is that not a fact?? Who is so stupid to ignore that? What is chabahar for? How kulbhushan came?? The rest of points are so stupid that they dont deserve a reply at all.
After all this is over, Pakistan needs to reduce its relations with iran, block all trade and band any pilgrimage. Fully fence and man the border with iran and support sanctioning the mullah regime and support regime change efforts.
 
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I've looked at your post. You've criticised the Iranian regime/government. You've not said anything in that post that is sectarian or deliberately trying to cause sectarian tension.

We on pdf should be able to criticise any government that makes mistakes which are damaging to Pakistan.

Thank you for your comment...

You can't stop a Pakistani from entering Pakistan mate, like I said setup quarantine camps on the border and place them in that.

You are a secteriann man just admit it, you have a problem with Iran, Iranic people and Shias.

I )Pakistan didn't have to open the border, but it should do because it's wrong to stop a Pakistani from entering his or her country
They should have tested and quarantined them on our side of the border, utter failure by our government.

2) Again you can't stop a Pakistani coming in, grow some setup a quaratine camp on our side and enforce it with iron fist.

3) So the cases are traced to Iran, and how did they arrive in Iran, from China so do we now call it a Chinese virus?

4)You wouldn't understand this, it's not about Shia, Sunni Muslims it's much deeper then that it's racial and pakstanis of certain background, regardless of sect will help and fight for iran with whom they share heritage and culture.

Ref turkey killing Pakistanis, they are Pakistani first,but to divede the community you call them Pakistan I Shias.What are Turks doing invading a sovereign country, what did they expect people waiting with flowers and welcoming them?.

5) Well am no shia and many who do help Iran do so purely on heritage ground and of course money.

The lines have been drawn we know who the other half of Pakistan supports but we rather support our kind, so to hell with the other side you won't change us.

Rest of your points are jibberish at best, cry and cry more ain't gonna get you no where.

Thanks for revealing yourself....You can't fool us. You're an Iranian stooge and people will recognize you...

Please post more often so that people can realize who you are.

*I bet you wake up at night screaming 'Iran'. I bet when you get constipated you see Shia conspiracy.

We are having serious discussion....As I said, kid...

Walk away.

Ah, yet another myopic view of a complex situation. Just what I need.

Let's break this down.

1.) Always FIRST hold your own government responsible. We knew that thousands of Pakistani pilgrims were in Iran when the outbreak happened. What preparations did we make? Hardly any --- it was all too little, too late.
Now, the Iranian side. It seems absolutely true that Iran, under severe US sanctions --- which are against any norms of humanity --- was struggling under the worst days of its own outbreak, with very little resources compared to China. China kept a few hundred students with the world's largest cash reserves --- we cannot expect Iran to keep a few thousand of our pilgrims when it is under the world's worst sanctions.

2.) Failure of Pak's government to make adequate arrangements in time and enforcing the border entry ban properly.

3.) Yes, they did. I don't see how this is Iran's "fault" when they are our citizens and Iran is under immense pressure with sanctions. First and foremost, your own country has to take care of you.

4.) Iran uses proxies just like we use proxies. When you want to recruit assets, you use whatever works --- if Iran has found that the sectarian card works for radicalized Shia youth, then of course it will use that angle. India, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan all have used proxies for decades. I would argue that Pakistan has suffered very little through Iranian proxies compared to the utter destruction of state and society caused by militants (and their secret sympathizers) caused by Wahabbi/Salafi Sunni militants. But I hate to get into that argument because it suggests an either/or type approach, whereas I believe that we should all exist in harmony.

5.) See above.

6.) Of course --- that is how espionage works. We would try the same, as would India or Saudi Arabia. I'm trying to find how/why this makes Iran more evil.

7.) There is no evidence that Iran trained and supported Kulbashan even though he did use an Iranian city for his cover business identity. Though, as we have been caught with our pants down with Mossad and CIA-trained (and Saudi funded) militants causing violence in Iran, it should not be considerably surprising that Iran would also host an anti-Pak element. This is how offensive intel ops work.

8.) A Pakistani man agreed to spy for Iran, embarrassing himself and our country --- though we have much bigger embarrassments to worry about. Again, an intel agency will use any willing person as an asset to achieve their own goals. Nothing about this makes Iran more evil than any other country.

9.) Wow, how nice of the PAF to protect our borders! I wish the PAF blew American drones out of the sky, which actually killed Pakistani citizens in the tribal areas (sometimes militants, sometimes innocent), the helicopters that killed our troops at a FATA checkpost/FOB and the helicopters that brought DEVGRU in for the Osama mission (all actions that caused the loss of lives) VS. a surveillance drone. But you're right, Iran did send a drone in the area where there was known militant activity against Iran preparing for a cross-border attack from Pakistani Balochistan. They should not have done this.

10.) Iran did use Uzair Baloch, but this again falls into the relatively normal category of intel ops neighbors conduct on each other. Is it right? Of course not! But it's not extraordinary or unique.

11.) These are proxy wars with target killers hired by Iranian and Saudi-backed outfits.

I think it's impossible to view anything in a vacuum. Iran has been looking out for its interests. We have been overly attached to Saudi Arabia --- and now we're seeing the results of this as they grow closer to India --- at the expense of our neighbor. Our ex COAS is serving in Saudi for God's sake --- obviously the Iranians will feel insecure!

I believe the damage done by all 11 of these Iranian actions pales in comparison to the damage done by:
a.) Saudi weaponized Islamic ideology that spawned everyone from LeJ to TTP (all Sunni outfits)
b.) 5-6 decades of horrible rule, whether civil or military, with no effort to balance foreign relations and push much-needed domestic reform.

Please understand that I am NOT denying the facts you have presented --- I am just adding context to them. If there is cancer spreading in your body (takfeeri interpretations of Islam and the violence and intolerance they have brought), it would be foolish to blame someone for a minor cut or bruise. We have much bigger problems to worry about. We should improve relations with Iran, dissociate a bit with Saudi, and re-calibrate our entire posture based on a Iran-Turkey-Russia-China bloc. The Gulf states, especially the House of Saud, are just American puppets who are in bed with the Zionists. Even with the might of the American military and the cleverness of Israeli intelligence, they still fear Iran --- all alone and under sanctions. I pray that you expand your horizons, and if you truly care about Pakistan --- focus on the cancer, not on minor cuts.

Just my 2c. I'm a Sunni btw. My first name is one that Shias generally don't ever keep (as those who know me on this forum can attest) --- but that doesn't cloud my thinking. I agree with you that sectarianism is backward and is destroying our country and our religion. The answer is in greater cooperation, not greater antagonism. Thanks for reading!

Sorry, sir....

You're an Iranian..No Pakistani will ever MOCK Pakistan Airforce just like you did in your post.

You are the reason why hatred against Iran is rising.

You are even justifying what harm Iran has done to Pakistan...

Don't quote me again....So, easy to recognize you.

See guys, these are THE STOOGES of Iran we have got here, mocking there own country for sake of Iran...I don't care what sect you are....

So zahireen and Shias are not your countrymen, I don't give a damn about your credibility and ratings.

You are just a secterian but guess what your countrymen that support you we know what side of the country they are from so no suprise there.

You are a STOOGE of Iran....and we know you very well....

Trying to put words into my mouth which I never said....

Those days are long gone when Iran can save her skin under guise of Shias....Traitors and Iranians will be called out...Bear with us

1) Pakistan had the right to limit the entry of citizens in order to provide ample time and resources to provide quarantine and testing facilities. Zaireens flocked to Pakistan without informing the relevant institutions

2)The zaireen showed irresponsible behavior and the government incompetence
3) Iran showed absolute criminal Behavior it did not limit movement of pilgrams nor did it seal those places.the fact is that the spike in cases is related to irans indifference to what happens to Pakistan
4) To be a citizen you need to have loyalty towards the state and what principles it is built upon, Shias wanting to fight for their "Irani" state can **** off and go live there.
We dont call Pakistani citizens in isis or ttp fighters ,they arw terrorists and so are the Pakistani shias in syria. Plus what does a Pakistani have a right in meddle with sovereign countries affairs and listening to the bidding of another sovereign country.Pakistani shias have almost nothing in common with iran and the the shia version of Al-Bakistani sunnis ..
5)foreign bootlicks shouldn't expect to be treated nicley in Pakistan wether he is an arab bootlicker or an irani bootlicker.

Thank you...
 
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:) i leave you on your blind spot. there is nothing you can do to get your anger out. but i give you reason iraq is even better than iran even tho they have mojority shias but iranain they are not friend of Pakistan majorly cuz pakistan is sunni and secondly we dont speak their language another reason they hide our enemies.
Tell me who was hiding Americans and killing Pakistanis for dollars?

Thank you for your comment...





Thanks for revealing yourself....You can't fool us. You're an Iranian stooge and people will recognize you...

Please post more often so that people can realize who you are.



We are having serious discussion....As I said, kid...

Walk away.



Sorry, sir....

You're an Iranian..No Pakistani will ever MOCK Pakistan Airforce just like you did in your post.

You are the reason why hatred against Iran is rising.

You are even justifying what harm Iran has done to Pakistan...

Don't quote me again....So, easy to recognize you.

See guys, these are THE STOOGES of Iran we have got here, mocking there own country for sake of Iran...I don't care what sect you are....



You are a STOOGE of Iran....and we know you very well....

Trying to put words into my mouth which I never said....

Those days are long gone when Iran can save her skin under guise of Shias....Traitors and Iranians will be called out...Bear with us



Thank you...


Well it's better then being a US and Arab stooge, what your life is all about.

Times are hard, economy is flopping, whose else blood can we sell, more drones more dollars ah yes our beloved country, let's start with Shias this time hay?
 
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Come on lads... enough of it now...

Let us focus on fighting the KhooniVirus... and when are done with it... each can have their fill... let us push the PauseButton!!!

The thread has served its purpose ...now perhaps closure is opportune @The Eagle @Irfan Baloch

No, sir...

Don't bury this thread....Keeping your eyes close after seeing cat is what pigeon does....not humans.

The danger is right in front of us...We have to confront it.

You will close the debate for a while but then what? It will again get opened.

Closing is not a SOLUTION.

Tell me who was hiding Americans and killing Pakistanis for dollars?
Well it's better then being a US and Arab stooge, what your life is all about.

Times are hard, economy is flopping, whose else blood can we sell, more drones more dollars ah yes our beloved country, let's start with Shias this time hay?

If Pakistanis were American stooge, Americans would have never blamed us for hiding Taliban or supporting taliban....pathetic Iranian slave
 
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See how iranian defenders now come and blame Pakistan. Pakistan shud have quarantined, Pakistan also uses proxy, why turkey attacked (not y pakistani shias were there).
Iranian stooges should know that its courtesy to inform ur neighbor and not overwhelm them. Pakistan put quarantine facility on border and these iranian stooges started jumping and were let go by none other than an iranian agent in govt, zulfi bukhari, who happens to be shia as well. Pakistan requested to send them slowly yet they were all pushed. Pakistan closed border and IRGC helped sneak them in on hidden routes.
What about iran being indian ally? Is that not a fact?? Who is so stupid to ignore that? What is chabahar for? How kulbhushan came?? The rest of points are so stupid that they dont deserve a reply at all.
After all this is over, Pakistan needs to reduce its relations with iran, block all trade and band any pilgrimage. Fully fence and man the border with iran and support sanctioning the mullah regime and support regime change efforts.

What about Pak being ally of US, Arabs?. What about Arab sponsored madrassas and extremism please do see with wider angle.
 
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What about Pak being ally of US, Arabs?. What about Arab sponsored madrassas and extremism please do see with wider angle.

That extremism sponsored by Saudis is already taken care of....TTP and Taliban are defeated in war against terror WHICH in fact provided SPACE to pathetic Iranian slaves like you to exert influence and do badmaashi/treason

Now, after getting rid of Saudi terrorism, we'll go after Iranian terrorists and their stooges.
 
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Thank you for your comment...





Thanks for revealing yourself....You can't fool us. You're an Iranian stooge and people will recognize you...

Please post more often so that people can realize who you are.



We are having serious discussion....As I said, kid...

Walk away.



Sorry, sir....

You're an Iranian..No Pakistani will ever MOCK Pakistan Airforce just like you did in your post.

You are the reason why hatred against Iran is rising.

You are even justifying what harm Iran has done to Pakistan...

Don't quote me again....So, easy to recognize you.

See guys, these are THE STOOGES of Iran we have got here, mocking there own country for sake of Iran...I don't care what sect you are....



You are a STOOGE of Iran....and we know you very well....

Trying to put words into my mouth which I never said....

Those days are long gone when Iran can save her skin under guise of Shias....Traitors and Iranians will be called out...Bear with us



Thank you...

We know you and your kind very well, stooges of everyone you are the people who joined hand with Sikhs to dislodge us.

Ah but sweet justice who the Sikhs massacre in 47, well suprise suprise it wasn't us.

You are heridatery stooges, and you always will be.
 
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@PaklovesTurkiye Brother i agree with all your points except the entry of Pakistani Citizens. As it stands State of Iran has refused to support them and is not allowing them to go back into Iran Proper Thousands of our own citizen are stranded on an International border with no facilities and no where to go we have to take them there is no other way. I dont believe the story of Zulfi Bukhri that being said it should be investigated to put an end to it. Had there been infrastructure there to Quarantine and Screen we wouldnt even be having this conversation.

That being said some of the Iranian actions point toward a deliberate attempt to overwhelm Pakistani Authorities and their Response. At this point Prime Minister, Pakistan's Foreign Minister and Balochistan Government have confirmed that Iranians Refused every Request they made to them for time to control the situation at the border. If Iran can show the courtesy of testing Indians before sending them back the least they should have done was to give GOP more time which they didn't. But if still people refuse to believe Iranian Duplicity than so be it. They only expose themselves.

After this fiasco GOP should take control of Pilgrimage to Qom and other holy Sites in Iran just like Hajj Operations so the unwanted elements like Iranian Proxies dont use it to cross Borders for their nefarious purposes. Complete the Border Fences and Curtail the Smuggling to Iran. If we do all this we can forget about most of Problems Iran Causes for Us. Iran recent actions related to Afghan refugees have destroyed all the work they did in Afghanistan they wont find many friends inside Afghanistan After this.

Persians and Arab Monarchies are not our friends anymore they will always cause problems for us no matter what the sooner we understand this fact the better it would be for us.
Our long term Strategic goal should be to Be self sufficient as much as possible for our energy needs and develop strategic partner Ships with China and Turkey.
 
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In Past sectarian tension has also complicated relations. In the 1980s, several radical groups began a systematic assault on Shi'i symbols and mosques in Pakistan. Pakistani Shi'a, with Iranian assistance, responded by forming their own militias. The continued targeting by Sunni terrorists of Pakistani Shi'a remains an Iranian concern. This Shi'i-Sunni strife in Pakistan has provoked Iran to provide clandestine support to its co-religionists there.

However, Pakistan and Iran have worked to improve security cooperation. the two states established the Pakistan-Iran Joint Ministerial Commission on Security to enhance cooperation on security issues such as terrorism, drug trafficking, and sectarian violence. Top Iranian political and intelligence officials regularly engage their Pakistani counterparts, . Kulbshan Yadev and his network is the example caught by us on Iranian tip. We can't ignore this Iran such great help to us.
in a recent development, there is a fundamental change in both Tehran and Islamabad, Afghanistan will be coming crossroad, for sure not proxies. Regardless of who runs Afghanistan, Tehran's and Islamabad's conflicting interests over Afghanistan have played a pivotal role in the formation of their foreign policies toward each other. I think we resolved this issue over the table with Iran. Right now Iran needs our help to fight against COVID-19 and some economical relief to stand on feet and we shouldn't compare Iran and China's responses over Paksiatni Traveller. Iran doesn't have the infrastructure and money to deal with its COVID-19 foreign Patients. It is Iran best interest to send them back and focus their limited fund only on their nation. But This type of Iran engagement does not necessarily equate to trust because we are also seeing IRAN pushing his Afghan refugees on our border, the question is why?
 
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In Past sectarian tension has also complicated relations. In the 1980s, several radical groups began a systematic assault on Shi'i symbols and mosques in Pakistan. Pakistani Shi'a, with Iranian assistance, responded by forming their own militias. The continued targeting by Sunni terrorists of Pakistani Shi'a remains an Iranian concern. This Shi'i-Sunni strife in Pakistan has provoked Iran to provide clandestine support to its co-religionists there.

However, Pakistan and Iran have worked to improve security cooperation. the two states established the Pakistan-Iran Joint Ministerial Commission on Security to enhance cooperation on security issues such as terrorism, drug trafficking, and sectarian violence. Top Iranian political and intelligence officials regularly engage their Pakistani counterparts, . Kulbshan Yadev and his network is the example caught by us on Iranian tip. We can't ignore this Iran such great help to us.
in a recent development, there is a fundamental change in both Tehran and Islamabad, Afghanistan will be coming crossroad, for sure not proxies. Regardless of who runs Afghanistan, Tehran's and Islamabad's conflicting interests over Afghanistan have played a pivotal role in the formation of their foreign policies toward each other. I think we resolved this issue over the table with Iran. Right now Iran needs our help to fight against COVID-19 and some economical relief to stand on feet. I think we shouldn't compare Iran and China's responses over Paksiatni Traveller. Iran doesn't have the infrastructure and money to deal with its COVID-19 foreign Patients. It is best to send them back. But This type of Iran engagement does not necessarily equate to trust because we are also seeing IRAN pushing his Afghan refugees on our border, the question is why?

Don't say that, you are an Iranian, a Shia, anti state to mention a few.

What these farmer boys dont understand is that some os us desert & hill Billie's don't see it as Shia Sunni but see it differently, Syria no support for Shias but rout the Arab influence.

Afghanistan, to ensure no Indian and US Influence, you can't take Iranian influence out it as ties are too strong.

We want to dominate, we want to see Pakistan dominate and after all it's our country, we chose it, we live for it, we fight and die for it but it needs to get a grip.

Our destiny is with West & Central Asia, we need solid relationships, trust building and greater cooperation.

Who raised voice for Kashmiris other then Turkey, Iran and Malaysia?.

And hell no I am no Shia a Sunni hanafi born and will die a Sunni hanafi.
 
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Ok, i will criticise Iran any day and i always say that Iran has kidnapped shia sect for political power projection.
Yes Most of the CORONA cases came to Pakistan from Iran and unlike Iranian cooperation with India, they did not cooperate with Pakistan.
Indian Shia were first tested in Iran then sent to India, but Pakistani Shia were just unceremoniously dumped on the Taftan border in their thousands.
The religious kidnapping of Shia Faith by Iran and inclusion of being Loyal to Iran and Khomeini as part of faith, will not let any Pakistani shia criticize Iran's actions, but instead blame it on Pakistan.
And there lies the conundrum. There has not been a single "Shia Zaireen" who have actually criticised Iran for dumping them on Pakistani borders without testing, but there are thousands of them rubbishing Pakistan for keeping them in Quarantine.
This is just one such Incident.
We need to tackle this "Disguised in religion" blind loyalty for Iran by our own citizens .
 
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Those were Punjabi Musims living in Indian Punjab

Probably were but who is cosying up to them, who is opening corridors for them?.

I will never forgive them for blood of those innocent, and as a state it has pissesd on the shadah of those innocent.

Now don't say PTI & Imran did it, they couldn't by themselves.

We have learnt over thousand of years that some enemies don't understand peace gesture they understand a kick in the head.

Ok, i will criticise Iran any day and i always say that Iran has kidnapped shia sect for political power projection.
Yes Most of the CORONA cases came to Pakistan from Iran and unlike Iranian cooperation with India, they did not cooperate with Pakistan.
Indian Shia were first tested in Iran then sent to India, but Pakistani Shia were just unceremoniously dumped on the Taftan border in their thousands.
The religious kidnapping of Shia Faith by Iran and inclusion of being Loyal to Iran and Khomeini as part of faith, will not let any Pakistani shia criticize Iran's actions, but instead blame it on Pakistan.
And there lies the conundrum. There has not been a single "Shia Zaireen" who have actually criticised Iran for dumping them on Pakistani borders without testing, but there are thousands of them rubbishing Pakistan for keeping them in Quarantine.
This is just one such Incident.
We need to tackle this "Disguised in religion" blind loyalty for Iran by our own citizens .
Shall we setup Chinese style education camps?

Even better how about we chuck them in the river, if they drown they were loyal, if they live they are traitors and only loyal to Khomeini and iran.
 
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