If Pakistan Fails

[courageneverdies]

if a few % of Indians get the message that Pakistan is making some effort toward peace with India, this will cascade into more Indians to reciprocate...cont...d

And Vice Versa.

KIT Over

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

and please stop hatreds toward India for your own good, provoking a large country will get u nothing.u will say Nuclear bombs gave you security, think of billions of rupees spent on their development and upkeep for its security, do u think Pakistan can easily bomb India or vise versa due you think the international community will sit back and watch the fire works.Concentrate more on development, you have all the ingredients of making a Great nation immense mineral deposits, the strategic location, & brilliant people.Remember India is a democratic country all the military purchase are to be ratified by parliament except in emergency conditions, if a few % of Indians get the message that Pakistan is making some effort toward peace with India, this will cascade into more Indians to reciprocate...cont...d

I was reading about MAD and found out that no Nuclear power will leave the other to survive, so it won't invade it , even friendly nations.

 

[faithfulguy]

You just insulted every none Hindu in the country.

You the people who keep discriminating against Hindu's.
And at the same time insult everyone who is not Hindu, but sees them self as Indian.

All you really are doing is just Insulting India.

Honestly.

Society is not perfect. The Goal of India is to create as much a secular society as possible. Formally India represents all the right values. As in any democracy the power to institute these values lies int he hands of the people.

This obviously will create a wide variety of problems with Fundamentalist groups. they hate secular ideals. And since India;s creation they have been trying to destroy those ideals.
These religions have fought one another for 100's of years you think just by writing Secular ideals on parchment. It would change that over night. It takes time and Effort and tolerance. All of which has been an continuing attempt for the Last 60. And we will continue to strive to do so. To try and get as close to that Utopian vision as possible.


India is in fact more secular than most nations. The pure varriety of culture in India that co-exist is not present any where else.
All Hindu's are not alike. sir. There are Tamils, Gujarati etc.


Even the United states. Suffers from Racisim(which just another form of discrimination). You have Groups such as the KKK running around the Country. And Its taken you over 200 years to elect a Minority group into office.

If your Idea of secular is where All regions live in peace and Harmony with no violence or Discrimination.
They you can Look else where as there is no place on earth. That resembles anything like that.

The day two human beings realize that Fighting each other is not teh answer. And evolve to the point. Where they don't have to kill each other.

Then and only then can we have the Utopian society we crave.

If you want to help the you would stop criticizing the nation trying to do the right things.
And try to bring those secular Ideals to your own lives.

Compare with most muslim countries, India is more secular. But compare with the west, east asia, south america, India as a society is quite religious. I'm not saying that have religious element in the govenrment is bad. As long as the government does not actively favors one religion over another, the government is secular.

That being said, what keep India together as a whole country is because of Hinduism and the Hindu civilization. Prior to British occupation, part of India is rule by various empire. But there was never a coherent country known as India. So even though Hindu civilization is a very long one, the concept a country called India didn't exist until when India was completely occupied by the British. So its the British that helped created the country of India.

 

[faithfulguy]

Get your facts right mate.
The only disparity in India is the same as in any other Society.

That of the rich and the poor.

Being Muslim Christian , Hindu or Bhuddist has no bearing on that.

In think its multi-facet. Religion does play a big role in India, so its caste, and finally, financial well being. These three things are different.

 

[amarnath]

Pakistan can not fail.

Emotionally: The 170,000,000 people won't let that happen and the fifth World's largest army of Pakistan as well.

Logically: A nation can not fail as long its grass-root level institutions remain intact. In Pakistan they are intact and working. The uprising of TTP, that has been the topic of every South Asian discussion, has been stopped and there isn't a way that they might rise again to the level which we have seen in Swat and SWA. The present law and order situation can be taken as the after shocks of a major earthquake.

Main system of Government, despite of several issues, is working and according to my analysis will remain at work for not less than two more years. Their ain't any chance of Army taking control of the country because they need some more time to get their DMS' polished.

Despite of the fact that in three provinces joint govts. are working and in a major province the clash between the CM and Governor is at the peak we don't see any chance of misadventure by any Political party against the other.

Peaceful holding of Elections in Gilgit-Baltistan, Agreed Upon NFC Award and steps like these are a ray of hope for the downed people and nation of Pakistan.

Indeed nation is going through a series of crisis but I am sure none of these could lead to the failure of Pakistan.

Conclusion: Pakistan won't fail. We won't let this happen.

Long Live Pakistan.

KIT Over

Logically, a nation whose top president is corrupt and facing trials against him is INDEED A FAILURE, Secondly a nation which surrenderd itself to terrorists is a failed nation by itself, fighting a war against its national interest but just to make the west happy is yet another act of cowardliness,The worlds fifth largest army with just 520,000 troops struggling to keep its borders safe is again poor indeed, and messing with a country with 2nd largest army will prove to be a great disaster indeed, and why not when world bank has already rated pakistan as the 10th failed nation...

Conclusion: Pakistan is already a failed country.

Kit Over

 

[Gin ka Pakistan]

Logically, a nation whose top president is corrupt and facing trials against him is INDEED A FAILURE, Secondly a nation which surrenderd itself to terrorists is a failed nation by itself, fighting a war against its national interest but just to make the west happy is yet another act of cowardliness,The worlds fifth largest army with just 520,000 troops struggling to keep its borders safe is again poor indeed, and messing with a country with 2nd largest army will prove to be a great disaster indeed, and why not when world bank has already rated pakistan as the 10th failed nation...

Conclusion: Pakistan is already a failed country.

Kit Over

Read it and Deleted it from my brain cells

 

[faithfulguy]

faithfulguy dude you seriously need to visit India..most of your posts shows how ignorant you are about India..I take your word that you stand in the middle ground in the opinion about India.If you say that seriously pack your bags and visit India..bring your kids and wife also.It will be a nice experience for them too..And i assure you that lots of your misconceptions about India will be eradicate by your visit..Dont judge my country by reading some blogs dude ...

I'm certain that India is a wonderful country. I was not bashing India. However, its important to understand history. History provide us a view of how we got here and may help us pave a better future for our future generations. My post about India is from historical perspective.

 

[deesu]

Logically, a nation whose top president is corrupt and facing trials against him is INDEED A FAILURE, Secondly a nation which surrenderd itself to terrorists is a failed nation by itself, fighting a war against its national interest but just to make the west happy is yet another act of cowardliness,The worlds fifth largest army with just 520,000 troops struggling to keep its borders safe is again poor indeed, and messing with a country with 2nd largest army will prove to be a great disaster indeed, and why not when world bank has already rated pakistan as the 10th failed nation...

Conclusion: Pakistan is already a failed country.

Kit Over

I disagree....
Pakistan is not failed state. It is in crisis for sure. It had over came this type of situation many times. It needs time.
If pakistan become failed state and the talibs get power... consider India in trouble too..
Pakistan have its own priorities.
520,000 troops is not joke.

 

[faithfulguy]

Logically, a nation whose top president is corrupt and facing trials against him is INDEED A FAILURE, Secondly a nation which surrenderd itself to terrorists is a failed nation by itself, fighting a war against its national interest but just to make the west happy is yet another act of cowardliness,The worlds fifth largest army with just 520,000 troops struggling to keep its borders safe is again poor indeed, and messing with a country with 2nd largest army will prove to be a great disaster indeed, and why not when world bank has already rated pakistan as the 10th failed nation...

Conclusion: Pakistan is already a failed country.

Kit Over

I would said that Pakistan has more internal security issues than India. But that doesn't make Pakistan a failed state as most of the troubles are in the frontier areas. Once the rebellion reaches the major cities and population centers, then its not too late to do something about preventing the country from collapsed.

The author just spreads propaganda crap to insult another country. He know quite well that the likelyhood of Pakistan failing is extremely small. But he wrote the article just to put another country down. Unfortunately, he remind me of quite a few members in this forum.

 

[gogbot]

Compare with most muslim countries, India is more secular. But compare with the west, east asia, south america, India as a society is quite religious. I'm not saying that have religious element in the govenrment is bad. As long as the government does not actively favors one religion over another, the government is secular.

So let me ask you Is all that Preaching to evangelical communities important in America just for show is it it because raligion still has a role to play In American politics. America is A conservative country.

What difference did it make weather it was Barak Obama
Or Barak Hussein Obama.

Yet your secular America still Continued with that Debate for months.

Europe after having killed each other for 2 world wars.
realized that Fighting is not always the answer. They have there one of the more free an Liberal Societies out there.

On that note India is religious nation. Its very conservative.
But yet we have a center left party in Power. The strongest government in over 20 years. Why is that ?

Face politics is always going to politics. People appealing to certain sections of community to get their vote. This happens every where.
Its south America is the Catholic community. America is the Christan community. Since when has political pandering been an Indian invention.

Compare with most muslim countries

also that's not necessary and its equally discrimination in its own right.
By implying that Muslims are some how different for the rest of the world. Whom you chosen to list by geography.

That being said, what keep India together as a whole country is because of Hinduism and the Hindu civilization. Prior to British occupation, part of India is rule by various empire. But there was never a coherent country known as India. So even though Hindu civilization is a very long one, the concept a country called India didn't exist until when India was completely occupied by the British. So its the British that helped created the country of India.

Unless you are an expert in over 5000 years of Indian history then i suggest you shove that Opinion where the sun dont shine.

The Sub continent. Has always had its own world view. Like Europe in the West we existed with our own history.
Indian Empires have risen and fallen Countless times. MY ancestors were part of more than one of those empires.

So were people from PAkistan, form Bangladesh Even Sri Lanka.All have a rich and beautiful history that Should be cherished. Despite of current political alliances, or identities.

 

[gogbot]

In think its multi-facet. Religion does play a big role in India, so its caste, and finally, financial well being. These three things are different.

No it doesnt its a mis-conception.

The problem in India sir is that People with money will just walk past a Beggar and not care.

It wont matter if the is chritian , Hindu or Muslim.

He or she is dammed either way. and that means that same logic works both ways. If you have money it doesn't matter what religion u are.

Its the Fundamentalist Elements in India that create religious violence.
And not every one is a fundamental.

If i said because of the KKK America has race issues you would say no. you would say most Americans are not racist.

Well use That same logic in India. Most Indians Dont give a dam about secular violence. But they do fall Victim to it. Which is the real problem the GOI has been trying to fight for all these years.

 

[sivadreams]

Pakistan can not fail.
Emotionally: The 170,000,000 people won't let that happen and the fifth World's largest army of Pakistan as well.

I thought Pak has the 7th largest Army in the world.

Logically: A nation can not fail as long its grass-root level institutions remain intact. In Pakistan they are intact and working. The uprising of TTP, that has been the topic of every South Asian discussion, has been stopped and there isn't a way that they might rise again to the level which we have seen in Swat and SWA. The present law and order situation can be taken as the after shocks of a major earthquake.

LOL I like to point this out that this is a creation of internal mess and Pakistan did not want to acknowledge these facts. They needed world powers to pressurize them to take action.

Even now its all half hearted measures and I did not undermine your armed forces but the attitude higher up the order.

India or Pakistan, it doesnt serve any good to groom terrorists again any state and this is bound to boomerang.

I am not talking in terms of India being a saint. India has its fare share of activities in Sri Lanka. LTTE was infact nurtured by India. But, then when the ruling class realized the mistake and overturned the decisions, we had to pay our price. We lost an able PM and lots of terrorist activities got into South of India. Me being a Tamilian myself do not subscribe to tamil elam as a separate state. (Leaving this topic for some other thread)

Bottom Line: Its not the people of India / Pakistan to be blamed its the ruling class. And few people who are motivated by wrong preachings.

Main system of Government, despite of several issues, is working and according to my analysis will remain at work for not less than two more years. Their ain't any chance of Army taking control of the country because they need some more time to get their DMS' polished.

I agree to your point here. The army to get their act together and re enter into main stream will take another 5 yrs. Thats been the trend in Pakistan. For this unless the politicians have a good will and resolve this would keep repeating.

Despite of the fact that in three provinces joint govts. are working and in a major province the clash between the CM and Governor is at the peak we don't see any chance of misadventure by any Political party against the other.

My point earlier is being proved once again by your own statements here

Peaceful holding of Elections in Gilgit-Baltistan, Agreed Upon NFC Award and steps like these are a ray of hope for the downed people and nation of Pakistan.

Indeed nation is going through a series of crisis but I am sure none of these could lead to the failure of Pakistan.

Conclusion: Pakistan won't fail. We won't let this happen.

Long Live Pakistan.

KIT Over

May god be with you and hope the same.

I would not like a failed state trotting my border and at the same time a state itself grooming terrorists against another state. Both are equally dangerous.

the repercussions are already felt by Pakistan and so they should act decisively and just not give irresponsible statements as non-state actors and then retract it.

 

[faithfulguy]

So let me ask you Is all that Preaching to evangelical communities important in America just for show is it it because raligion still has a role to play In American politics. America is A conservative country.

What difference did it make weather it was Barak Obama
Or Barak Hussein Obama.

Yet your secular America still Continued with that Debate for months. .

America does have some religious people. But the government allows freedom of religion and religious conversion. India does not allow Johova's witness or Mormons preaching in the streets. So in this regard, government of India does not provide as much religious freedom as the US government. It does not allow free religious proselytizing.

Europe after having killed each other for 2 world wars.
realized that Fighting is not always the answer. They have there one of the more free an Liberal Societies out there.

On that note India is religious nation. Its very conservative.
But yet we have a center left party in Power. The strongest government in over 20 years. Why is that ?
.

Because of the root of Gandhi and congress party, its a center left party. India was not a big fan of capitalism for a long time after independence. Its only after reform in early 90s that cause the Indian economy to boom.

Face politics is always going to politics. People appealing to certain sections of community to get their vote. This happens every where.
Its south America is the Catholic community. America is the Christan community. Since when has political pandering been an Indian invention.



also that's not necessary and its equally discrimination in its own right.
By implying that Muslims are some how different for the rest of the world. Whom you chosen to list by geography.

In muslim majority countries, the religion of the country is Islam. Islamic countries generally doesn't allow religious proselytizing. Which in this case, its similar to India. Americas and the west do allow proselytizing. So in this regard, there is more religious freedom.

Unless you are an expert in over 5000 years of Indian history then i suggest you shove that Opinion where the sun dont shine.

The Sub continent. Has always had its own world view. Like Europe in the West we existed with our own history.
Indian Empires have risen and fallen Countless times. MY ancestors were part of more than one of those empires.

So were people from PAkistan, form Bangladesh Even Sri Lanka.All have a rich and beautiful history that Should be cherished. Despite of current political alliances, or identities.

I'm not arguing that India subcontinent doesn't have its own civilization. It most certain have. Europe is one civilization make up of many counties. The hindu civilization of India is compose of one country. The reason was because the British was the dominate power in India. In Africa, there were many colonies from different nations. If the British was not able to conquere the whole India because of other European powers or native Indian princes were able to successfully resist the British, India would not be a whole country as it is right now.

 

[faithfulguy]

No it doesnt its a mis-conception.

The problem in India sir is that People with money will just walk past a Beggar and not care.

It wont matter if the is chritian , Hindu or Muslim.

He or she is dammed either way. and that means that same logic works both ways. If you have money it doesn't matter what religion u are.

Its the Fundamentalist Elements in India that create religious violence.
And not every one is a fundamental.

If i said because of the KKK America has race issues you would say no. you would say most Americans are not racist.

Well use That same logic in India. Most Indians Dont give a dam about secular violence. But they do fall Victim to it. Which is the real problem the GOI has been trying to fight for all these years.

I'm certain that there are racism in America. Certain groups are favor over others in college admission. In certain areas, people of certain ethnic background would cling together and these people would not have the complete view of the mainstream culture.

 

[ssheppard]

America does have some religious people. But the government allows freedom of religion and religious conversion. India does not allow Johova's witness or Mormons preaching in the streets. So in this regard, government of India does not provide as much religious freedom as the US government. It does not allow free religious proselytizing.

This is absolute rubbish.....these so called religious processions and preacher sessions have always been there .,...now if you mean to say that anyone should be allowed to pick up a loudspeaker and shout...thats against Law...as it is of public inconvenience....

India laws permit any kind of religious preachings all over the country....subject to the permissions from civil authorities.