Identifying 50 Issues with J-10A for PAF

[Maarkhoor]

Ok. Two tweets were made yesterday by Alan Warnes

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181105100267372544

Then he asked ...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1181106138659659777

Now I think no one, except PAF, can answer all 50 issues he is referring to regarding PAF evaluating J-10A back in 2006-2008 but if we can have a serious debate can we unearth few of them here to understand better what PAF actually wanted from this plane and why it got rejected. Also, Is J-10C/CE has overcome those issues.

Everyone is welcome to participate.

Pakistan at that time had an issue or reservations over Chinese avionics but after induction of JF-17 with Chinese avionics our level of confidence much increased over Chinese electronics and our pilots are very surprised / happy with that.

Why we are not inducting J-10 because of money and one more thing performance is much closer to JF-17 and that is why China is not inducting JF-17 and we are not inducting J-10.

 

[litman]

do we have any funds for induction of any new jets?

 

[WarKa DaNG]

I still hope that PAF should go for the F-16, as american technology is robust and reliable compared to others

 

[PakShaheen79]

Here is the video where AVM has claimed 50 areas which we rejected in J-10. Listen from 3:45 onward

do we have any funds for induction of any new jets?

Compulsion of security is mother of defense budget. Our qualitative differntial with India is increasing after arrival of Rafale in IAF. So, a balance will have to be restored by PAF with best available source.

 

[messiach]

The information is confusing. FCSE at chengdu exclusively researched & developed all major and minor components for jian-10 and later for FC1 & they are all exclusively chinese men with some lateral input mainly russians. We had exclusive manufacturing rights and they were transferred to us lateron. This info is correct till 2005.

not the original fighter. We spent considerable time requesting changes to the aircraft before we would accept it - much as we did with the F-7.

That input reflected onto the changes in the J-10B MMI and sub-systems. our efforts however were of little RoI to us.


I believe 50 here is a figure of speech however .

 

[Basel]

I am not aware of '50 issues'. This is something new to me. We had committed and spend money, time and effort, why would be now walk-off the project and go somewhere else. Nothing wrong with J10.

After evaluation of J-7/F-7 PAF asked for 37 modifications which later China also adopted so 50 points should be taken in that term as PAA also evaluated Z-10 and identified modifications in it.

 

[jupiter2007]

I still hope that PAF should go for the F-16, as american technology is robust and reliable compared to others

I know people working at Lockheed Martin and there is not even a rumor about block 70 for Pakistan. Whoever spreading the news is either sitting in corporate offices of Lockheed Martin and doing the negotiations or just a YouTuber trying get some views.
As far as I know there is no news about new F-16 block 70 deal for Pakistan, nothing from Pakistani Embbacy in DC. As I have mentioned before, CFC will be released to Pakistan and Trump/Pentagon might allow used/surplus F-16s but that depends on peace in Afghanistan and what role Pakistan play in it.
There is nothing written on the stone, things are constantly changing.

 

[denel]

I know people working at Lockheed Martin. There is no news about new F-16 deal for Pakistan. Pakistani might be able to get used/surplus F-16s but that depends on peace in Afghanistan and what role Pakistan play in it.

correct. new f-16s are not happening from my understanding. push must be on used f-16s; again give/take with US. IK knows how to handle Modi mantra with a good yorker.

 

[jupiter2007]

Here is the video where AVM has claimed 50 areas which we rejected in J-10. Listen from 3:45 onward

Compulsion of security is mother of defense budget. Our qualitative differntial with India is increasing after arrival of Rafale in IAF. So, a balance will have to be restored by PAF with best available source.

India won’t have the full Rafale squadron until 2021. It too early to speculate what adjustments were done by PAF to counter Rafale. I think we should wait for official statement from PAF regarding JF-17 block 3 production and it’s capabilities (Radar, avionics, EW, missiles, etc).

correct. new f-16s are not happening from my understanding. push must be on used f-16s; again give/take with US. IK knows how to handle Modi mantra with a good yorker.

If Trump did not agree to used F-16s, I would rather go for J-16 than J-10. J-16 will have a higher operational cost but it has a longer range and bigger payload. All of this depends on Jf-17 block 3.

 

[denel]

India won’t have the full Rafale squadron until 2021. It too early to speculate what adjustments were done by PAF to counter Rafale. I think we should wait for official statement from PAF regarding JF-17 block 3 production and it’s capabilities (Radar, avionics, EW, missiles, etc).



If Trump did not agree to used F-16s, I would rather go for J-16 than J-10. J-16 will have a higher operational cost but it has a longer range and bigger payload. All of this depends on Jf-17 block 3.

Correct, but there are logistics/maintenance constraints to be factored in. At this point, IK is the right man to drive home the point with TiT who prefers Alpha Males; this should make it very possible. Given how TiT exited Syria, this may be the outcome happening soon in Afghanistan as well.

 

[SQ8]

The information is confusing. FCSE at chengdu exclusively researched & developed all major and minor components for jian-10 and later for FC1 & they are all exclusively chinese men with some lateral input mainly russians. We had exclusive manufacturing rights and they were transferred to us lateron. This info is correct till 2005.

I spoke to previous CPD JF and he mentioned they went there to find barely basic concepts. So they rotated in and out of chengdu to get work going with detachments at time of 100 or more.

 

[messiach]

I cannot divulge numbers, neither confirm or deny this. But on a general note, the axel cycle control facility where turbofans are researched are exclusively with chinese. No country allows this kind of access incld. China but pending the contract are obliged to transfer the fabrication technology developed in these labs. We had open access to their fabtech facilities. This is the fate accomply till 2005. Your understanding and contacts should be more uptodate.

I spoke to previous CPD JF and he mentioned they went there to find barely basic concepts. So they rotated in and out of chengdu to get work going with detachments at time of 100 or more.

 

[ziaulislam]

Correct, but there are logistics/maintenance constraints to be factored in. At this point, IK is the right man to drive home the point with TiT who prefers Alpha Males; this should make it very possible. Given how TiT exited Syria, this may be the outcome happening soon in Afghanistan as well.

existing Afghanistan without victory wont happen, that is classic trump
trump will negotiate a deal and only than leave..
but remember no matter how foolish people think trump is, he is not, he has complete understanding of people and his base sentiments, he noticed people didn't want this kinda settlement so he walked away, he is going to see how his base reacts and will proceed accordingly...

people in USA have mix feeling..his base want to leave Afghanistan but with some sort of victory, and that is hard to get on negotiating table

 

[Pakistansdefender]

New lolly pop.
What happened to the f 16s that were about to come .

 

[PakShaheen79]

I spoke to previous CPD JF and he mentioned they went there to find barely basic concepts. So they rotated in and out of chengdu to get work going with detachments at time of 100 or more.

This is little confusing if we keep in mind PAF's observations and improvements they usher in the later batches of J-10 (i.e. B and C Model). From a simplistic principle approach, this makes quite sense that China didn't allow us to peak into too much in their labs; no country would allow that regardless if the visitors are from an ally country or not, but if they restricted us to rotating through front and back doors, then we can deduce why B or C model never made it to PAF. Chinese think through Pakistan, Americans can have a chance to take a good look at their mainstay fighter. (I remember reading similar news, may be rumors, during the same time i.e. 2014-16). These models were used extensively to test many technologies CAC put on J-20.