IDEAS 2016 Karachi Pakistan

[Zarvan]

Guys it's time we start discussing upcoming IDEAS 2016 exhibition. Our hopes and wishes and what we can expect from this year IDEAS.
@Horus @Oscar @Manticore @waz @HRK @Arsalan @balixd

 

[Imran Khan]

do we produced anything new in last 1 year sir?

 

[Saifullah Sani]

IDEAS 2016

IDEAS, a biennially held defence exhibition, will once again bring together all the industry's players across the globe to showcase the latest technological innovations.

The IDEAS-2016 team will welcome you at Karachi Expo Centre for the 9th International Defence Exhibition and Seminar (IDEAS) event from 22 to 25 November 2016.

IDEAS 2016, being the most strategically important event of the region, will once again bring together all the industry's players across the globe to showcase the latest technological innovations. The 4 days of the Show are exclusively for trade visitors and high official defence delegates.

THE REGIONAL DEFENCE MARKET


The most productive geopolitical region of Asia is one of the largest markets for Defence Products. In a bid to effectively meet the new challenge posed by the transformed regional and global security dynamics, Asia as well as governments of the neighboring continent of Africa allocates significant budgets for modernization and up-gradation programs for their armed forces.

http://www.ideaspakistan.gov.pk/ideas_2016.php[/COLOR]

 

[Shah Xaib]

Takbir 2 maybe?

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Will Al-Khalid II be there?? JF-17 Block II Improved one? Dragon APC?

 

[CHI RULES]

May be newly developed and tested Coastal Defense missile by Pak and Burraq UAV with Barq missile may capture orders from some Arab/African countries along with prospects for North American block orders.

 

[Zarvan]

Can't be sure so better we keep our expectations lowest

 

[ZAC1]

well different purchases will be seen like hj-12 and other stuff

 

[Arsalan]

Guys it's time we start discussing upcoming IDEAS 2016 exhibition. Our hopes and wishes and what we can expect from this year IDEAS.
@Horus @Oscar @Manticore @waz @HRK @Arsalan @balixd

Dont hope for much!!
Such exhibitions are genuinely meant to showcase your own products and sell them. I am not sure how many order and of what thing we may get. The foreign suppliers are brought to such exhibitions in order to increase the value of the show, to make it attractive and get that much more visitors/customers. It is not so that we can purchase there product. However what can happen is that we see some product and we feel that it will meet our certain needs. That is it. There are months and years long product evaluations procedures before real procurement are made. Not like a Sunday market where we will go and buy all the stuff that looks fancy. Many people think of exhibitions this way but unfortunately it is not like that.

Trust me, i have exhibited at many to know this as an insider!!

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

What could be seen is a visible Russian presence...

 

[Wolf]

Will Al-Khalid II be there?? JF-17 Block II Improved one? Dragon APC?

our leaders in armed forces seem too much insistent on buying foreign made equipment at the cost of local products. This is not the first time it is happening in our history. examples are Pakistan looking for Altay tank instead of rolling out more and improved Al Khalids, PAF persons saying JF 17 not that good and looking for second hand crap. Navy instead of making more agosta 90 Bs which they bought under transfer of technology has not made any submarine since then.

Some things run in NATION's psyche. I am afraid armed forces personnel are also Pakistan nationals and unless a system is devised to check the procurement decisions, we will keep on killing our industry for the sake of foreign made equipment whatever the ulterior motives behind it which i dont want to comprehend. Take pride in Made in Pakistan brand, O fellow Countrymen! Please.

 

[niaz]

our leaders in armed forces seem too much insistent on buying foreign made equipment at the cost of local products. This is not the first time it is happening in our history. examples are Pakistan looking for Altay tank instead of rolling out more and improved Al Khalids, PAF persons saying JF 17 not that good and looking for second hand crap. Navy instead of making more agosta 90 Bs which they bought under transfer of technology has not made any submarine since then.

Some things run in NATION's psyche. I am afraid armed forces personnel are also Pakistan nationals and unless a system is devised to check the procurement decisions, we will keep on killing our industry for the sake of foreign made equipment whatever the ulterior motives behind it which i dont want to comprehend. Take pride in Made in Pakistan brand, O fellow Countrymen! Please.

Commendable sentiments indeed, I am all for it myself. However, one should not ignore Defence Planners view point either.

Leaders of the Pakistan armed services not only have the responsibility of the defence of the mother land; they are also responsible for the lives and welfare of all the soldiers who serve in the armed forces. State of Pakistan’s economy dictates as to how much the nation can afford to spare for Defence. It is then the Defence Planners job to get the most "bang" for the buck.

It is good to have pride in Pakistani defence produce but these must be good enough to compete with what the enemy has. It is duty of the Defence High Command to equipment Pak Armed Forces with the best the country can afford. If it means import; so be it.

Based on the above; any item that can be produced in Pakistan which is nearly as good and is not more expensive than the import; must be manufactured locally. However armaments have tendency to become outdated and beyond a certain level, up-gradation is no longer cost effective. In such circumstances, importation is the only option.

For example, Pak Army has serving professionals who are fully aware of the capabilities as well as the shortcomings of Al-Khalid MBT. Unless it can be proven that Pak Army High Command decided to purchase Altay Tank despite the fact that it is inferior to Al- Khalid; I would go along with their decision.

Don’t know why TOT is so much misunderstood. No manufacturer would transfer the technology to another country that implies that original manufacturer is no longer needed. In most cases it means ability to manufacture under licence (meaning you pay the Licence Fee and may be also a small percentage of profit per unit to the Patent holder). In case of sophisticated equipment, TOT could only be acquiring the ability to assemble the parts imported from the manufacturer.

All critical parts such as the power plant, AIP, navigation & communication systems were imported, Karachi Shipyard simply assembled Augusta 90B in Pakistan. Therefore unless France agrees to sell us all the components; Pakistan will not be able to produce another Augusta or any other submarine. Pakistan does not have technical know-how even to modernize the Augusta 90B submarines which is being done in Turkey.

Finally, how much of Al-Khalid in really of Pakistani origin? It was jointly developed with Chinese help based on Chinese type 90-II MBT. The engine is imported from Ukraine. If Ukraine for some reason unable to supply the power plant, no more AL Khalid.

 

[Wolf]

Commendable sentiments indeed, I am all for it myself. However, one should not ignore Defence Planners view point either.

Leaders of the Pakistan armed services not only have the responsibility of the defence of the mother land; they are also responsible for the lives and welfare of all the soldiers who serve in the armed forces. State of Pakistan’s economy dictates as to how much the nation can afford to spare for Defence. It is then the Defence Planners job to get the most "bang" for the buck.

It is good to have pride in Pakistani defence produce but these must be good enough to compete with what the enemy has. It is duty of the Defence High Command to equipment Pak Armed Forces with the best the country can afford. If it means import; so be it.

Based on the above; any item that can be produced in Pakistan which is nearly as good and is not more expensive than the import; must be manufactured locally. However armaments have tendency to become outdated and beyond a certain level, up-gradation is no longer cost effective. In such circumstances, importation is the only option.

For example, Pak Army has serving professionals who are fully aware of the capabilities as well as the shortcomings of Al-Khalid MBT. Unless it can be proven that Pak Army High Command decided to purchase Altay Tank despite the fact that it is inferior to Al- Khalid; I would go along with their decision.

Don’t know why TOT is so much misunderstood. No manufacturer would transfer the technology to another country that implies that original manufacturer is no longer needed. In most cases it means ability to manufacture under licence (meaning you pay the Licence Fee and may be also a small percentage of profit per unit to the Patent holder). In case of sophisticated equipment, TOT could only be acquiring the ability to assemble the parts imported from the manufacturer.

All critical parts such as the power plant, AIP, navigation & communication systems were imported, Karachi Shipyard simply assembled Augusta 90B in Pakistan. Therefore unless France agrees to sell us all the components; Pakistan will not be able to produce another Augusta or any other submarine. Pakistan does not have technical know-how even to modernize the Augusta 90B submarines which is being done in Turkey.

Finally, how much of Al-Khalid in really of Pakistani origin? It was jointly developed with Chinese help based on Chinese type 90-II MBT. The engine is imported from Ukraine. If Ukraine for some reason unable to supply the power plant, no more AL Khalid.

600 Al khalids in 24 years. I was in class 5 back then. What do I call this? Negligence or incompetence or strategic indecision. Time is luxury, we can ill afford. I voice my concerns as sometimes you get impression of showing lethargy towards self reliance. ToT is welcome, but in all matters speed and consistency is the key which is found lacking.

 

[CHI RULES]

Speed is directly related to finances and infrastructure. You may wish to produce 100 AK in a year but you have resources and capacity to produce only 20 a Year then what u will do. Similarly requirements change with time. PA may start producing AK-II but still require to retire Chinese MBTs of vintage type at least below Al Zarrar MBT as well as up gradation of existing AK-Is. Pak has at least three times bigger enemy to counter so we will require another platform to compensate AK-II in near future.

Similarly JF17 is a light fighter and has role of Air defense but we require Jets in large numbers to retire vintage Mirages and F7s . To me they can't be fully replaced by JF17s alone so PAF looking for second hand F16s.
On the other hand I personally believe that until and unless entire structure of JF17 is changed it can't be converted into Medium weight Fighter Bomber. It's main role shall remain Air defense. Meanwhile we shall require a medium to heavy class fighter bomber for strike/deep penetration role. It is not matter of preferring foreign Arms over domestic once.

 

[Amaa'n]

Guys it's time we start discussing upcoming IDEAS 2016 exhibition. Our hopes and wishes and what we can expect from this year IDEAS.
@Horus @Oscar @Manticore @waz @HRK @Arsalan @balixd

I gave my cnic copy to friend today, fingers crossed......Inshallah i will get my Pass for the expo.....just pray for me please.......if it comes through we will create a lost of questions thaty we are going to ask from Delegattion / Vendors