IAI Kfir a threat for many 4th gen fighters aspecially jf-17

[Natan]

Isn't Kfir a souped up Mirage III?

That was IAI Nesher.

 

[Archie]

I wonder how much life a 30 year old airframe has left in it.

If the plane has done more than 2500 hours, then its not a good deal

 

[al_asad_al_mulk]

I wonder how much life a 30 year old airframe has left in it.

If the plane has done more than 2500 hours, then its not a good deal

Sir main difference between 3rd and 4th generation aircraft is avionics only if you modernized or install new radar avionics plus weapon pack you can easily transform 3rd gen fighter into 4th gen fighter. i have no news about either they are providing new air frames or old refurbished.

 

[power of steel]

Sir main difference between 3rd and 4th generation aircraft is avionics only if you modernized or install new radar avionics plus weapon pack you can easily transform 3rd gen fighter into 4th gen fighter. i have no news about either they are providing new air frames or old refurbished.

Mirage III airframe is pretty bad compared to Mirage 2000 airframe. Plus Mirage III can only take a turbojet which has very short lifespan compared to Mirage 2000's turbofan.

 

[FuturePAF]

That was IAI Nesher.

per wikipedia on the IAI Nesher:

"Nesher production was phased out from 1978 to make way for an improved Mirage derivative that had been planned in parallel, in which the Atar engine was replaced by an Israeli-built General Electric J79 engine, the engine used on the AmericanLockheed F-104 Starfighter and McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom II fighters. The result was the IAI Kfir."

so the engine change, and the addition of canards are the two big differences
the Kfir blocks denote improved sub-systems, but that is really the difference between Nesher and Kfir

The Kfir J-79 has a Dry thrust of 52.9 kN (11,890 lb) and Thrust with afterburner of 79.62 kN (17,900 lb)
It's empty weight is 7,285 kg (16,060 lb) and loaded weight is 11,603 kg (25,580 lb) including two 500 L drop tanks and two AAMs (to be fair, the weight of the drop tanks might not be considered part of the loaded weight of the JF-17, so keep that in mind)

The Jf-17 by comparison has a Dry thrust of between 49.7 kN and 51.2 kN (11,106 lbf / 11,510 lbf) and Thrust with afterburner of 84.6 kN (19,000 lbf), its empty weight is 6,586 kg (14,520 lb) and loaded weight is only 9,100 kg (20,062 lb), so a more powerful turbofan engine versus a turbojet engine, and a lower weight

so the reports would be true if the Chinese limited selection of avionics and weapons and therefore did not secure the deal, because the JF-17 is a superior design (IMHO), and to win future bids, the JF-17 needs the following export upgrades

1. AESA Radar
2. Better Avionics (need to find out from the Argentinians what features they really thought were lacking in the Chinese avionics, or was it just a preference)
3. Better Air to Air missiles (The JF17 has decent air to ground and anti-ship weapons, but as report, they may not have been on sale to the Argentinians) to match or exceed the Python 5 WVR and Derby BVR Missiles; The PL-10 and PL-12D or PL-21 might not be for export or at least to export beyond Pakistan once ready for mass production

 

[Sarjen29]

Asking is another thing and buying is another thing.And i know what,s your level of pain sanjeev
JF17 is getting attention of many countries while tejas are just sitting ducks no one want to buy.

If you allow only they can buy right..Same like many are interested but few are buying that few just went past JF-17, don't be naive the thread is about Argentina buying Kfir not Tejas.. If you can't have a constructive talks then don't quote me.

I wonder how much life a 30 year old airframe has left in it.

If the plane has done more than 2500 hours, then its not a good deal

The Engine they're adding has Zero Hour and the Plane will have new Avionics and AESA Radar.. it can serve them another 1 or 2 decade if they take care of it properly

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

That was IAI Nesher.

Which was a Mirage V clone, right?

 

[Natan]

Which was a Mirage V clone, right?

Correct.

IAI Kfir was inspired by the Mirage III in the same way that Mirage F1 was inspired by the Mirage III.

 

[power of steel]

Correct.

IAI Kfir was inspired by the Mirage III in the same way that Mirage F1 was inspired by the Mirage III.

It's not inspired. Israel never built any Kfir airframes. All Kfir airframes are 40 years old junks.

a more powerful turbofan engine versus a turbojet engine

a turbofan has several times the lifespan as a turbojet

 

[MastanKhan]

Dude, These are overhauled and replaced with Different engine, different Avionics, New AESA Radar and Pods, and integrated to use almost all of the Top Israeli A2A missiles, and Israel will provide anti-ship missile too. the price tag you see in the wiki is not for block 60 that's what Argentina getting. that was for the first kfir jets these are Block 60 the actual deal is 18 fighters for 500 million. No one will give u a plane with AESA, new engine from US and Israeli Avionics. and Yes Argentina can pay for JF,,JF is not some costly fighter.. its one of the cheapest fighter in 2015... if Argentina had no cash then they wouldn't have asked for grippen and JF

Hi,

Argetina cannot pay for the J F 17. It's cost will be around 70--80 million with weapons and support and training per aircraft----. OTOH----they already have a setup for the Kfir----all their current weapons would be plug and play. So---it won't cost them much to have the Kfir being deployed---.

Now---before you jump up and down---remember the cost on the Rafales---why so high per aircraft---what was it---close to 200 million dollars.

Next the Chinese refused to sell them the anti ship missiles---. The purpose of the aircraft is defeated without the anti ship missile.

Argentinian purchase is not for technical reasons----it is for show only. Just to satisfy the masses----because the job that is needed---the aircraft is not capable of---.

Dear the price of one jf17 block 1 is $25 million and Kfir price is $4.5 million and using tech from the 80,s.Pakistan is located on a strategic important location and due to some internal and external security threats our requirements are way more higher than a country like argentina.Yes they should not buy JF17 thunder if the Kfir can get their job done and don,t have much budget to afford to advanced multirole fighter like JF17.

Hi,

The price with what argetina wanted---it would be around 35 million dollars plus the weapons and training and support taking it upto 70---80 million a plane---.

What argetina needs ia two cost effective aircraft---one for strike role and one for air defense superiority. One aircraft does not do it any good when facing great Britain-----unless they can afford to fly the SU 30---which they cannot----no money .

The SU 30 is the best fighter for their needs in one aircraft----

 

[black-hawk_101]

Mirage III airframe is pretty bad compared to Mirage 2000 airframe. Plus Mirage III can only take a turbojet which has very short lifespan compared to Mirage 2000's turbofan.

Pakistan relations are growing with Qatar at fast pace and Qatar is looking for Rafaels. I think they should gift Pakistan 12 M-2000s and also help them to buy some more from France, Egypt and South America too.

I agree with all the guys who tells that M-2000s are best for Naval role.

30 Year Old Israeli war horse
still giving tough time to gripen & thunder
read more: Argentina Buying 30 Year Old Israeli Fighter Jets Diplomacy and Defense Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News
the IAI KFIR has been exported to Colombia, Ecuador, and Sri Lanka
View attachment 243598 View attachment 243599
and many other are interested in it

like Philippine and Argentine

Kfir Block 60 : Upgraded version of the C.10, The main feature of this variant is the use of AESA radar, proposed to the Bulgarian Air Force and Colombian Air Force. As of January 2014 Argentina is reported to be interested in a US$500m deal for eighteen Block 60 to replace its planned acquisition of second-hand Mirage F1M from Spain
Industry sources claim IAI will "soon" receive an order for the Argentine Air Force for Kfir Block 60s

As the latest upgrade of the Israeli-made fighter, the new configuration involves giving the General Electric J79-powered aircraft a total overhaul, and re-equipping it with an Elta Systems EL/M-2032 active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and an open architecture avionics suite

So how many of them are available as Full Aircraft and Spares?

General Electric J79 is also widely available for this. I am sure this can be good.

 

[Sarjen29]

Hi,

Argetina cannot pay for the J F 17. It's cost will be around 70--80 million with weapons and support and training per aircraft----. OTOH----they already have a setup for the Kfir----all their current weapons would be plug and play. So---it won't cost them much to have the Kfir being deployed---.

Now---before you jump up and down---remember the cost on the Rafales---why so high per aircraft---what was it---close to 200 million dollars.

Next the Chinese refused to sell them the anti ship missiles---. The purpose of the aircraft is defeated without the anti ship missile.

Argentinian purchase is not for technical reasons----it is for show only. Just to satisfy the masses----because the job that is needed---the aircraft is not capable of---.

You're kidding me right??? Do you knwo who was the first choice for Argentinian Air force??? It was the Grippen which costs whooping 70 million per plane, you count with Western weapons how much it would cost. And do you think if they can't afford them would they have opted for it???? Becasue of English's Pressure Sweden didn't sell it to AAF, Then they looked into IDF for Kfir since its upgraded Mirage they don't need to spend on training and infra. Its was only in the air show Argentina found JF and were interested since no one would sell the a new fighter because of the pressure from UK... Russins offered Su-24 but Argentina rejected because they didn't want a single role fighter (Su-24 is Purely for A2G role) they want a multirole fighter and Su-24 is expensive to fly and to maintain.. so they don't want to spend cash on that.....

Now coming to JF, the pure reason they rejected is because Chinese Refusal to the AshM and replacement of Chinese Avionics with Israeli ones. and to opt weapons from Israel

Please read about the history of Kfir and Mirage...its a very proven platform. Don't pitch your hopes on JF If Kafir is a show then so does JF, better install a good Avionics, AESA and good weapons and you'll get deals from AF who really needs to fight some one not for show bussiness

 

[Stephen Cohen]

At 40 Years of age, Kfir Turns into a “Networked Fighter” | Defense Update:

@MastanKhan

Kfir has BEEN to the RED FLAG exercise

The ONLY thing JF 17 has is FBW ; which Kfir does not have

But the Radar ; EW systems and weapons are superior

 

[nomi007]

iai kfir grave yard

 

[Umair Nawaz]

This is true actually u can get AESA radar in this with just 18 million dollars.

At 40 Years of age, Kfir Turns into a “Networked Fighter” | Defense Update:

@MastanKhan

Kfir has BEEN to the RED FLAG exercise

The ONLY thing JF 17 has is FBW ; which Kfir does not have

But the Radar ; EW systems and weapons are superior

there r lots f things in which JFT is superior as a hint; Range, AOA etc etc.