IAF to order around 100 more LCA Mark-1A fighter jets for over $8 billion

[Faceless]

Again I am not happy if they will order fir another 100 batch.

Appox 120 Hal mk1a is more than enough.

Money can be save and can be upgrade su 30 mki and more focus in Tejas mk2 and AMCA

Even I was questioning this order size but after digging deeper I can confidently say that it's the right decision.

Current PAF inventory
138 JF 17 Block 1 and 2 (no match for even the mk1)
50 JF Thunder Block 3 (formidable opponent against mk1a)

36 J 10 CE (mk1a would not be upto the task against this class of fighter we would need other fighters like Tejas mk2 for that)

75 F 16s (again mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we would need other fighters like Tejas mk2 for that)

53 F-7 (Chinese version of flying coffin) (will be replaced with JF 17s so additional orders of JF 17 are expected)

87 Mirage 3 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

92 Mirage 5 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms,) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

So as you can see by 2030 PAF would be operating nearly 250 - 300 JF 17's as PAF is going to inevitably order more JF 17s to replace it's aging fleet of F-7's and Mirages.
223 Tejas mk1a will be needed to counter that many JF 17s, not to mention Mk1a is an excellent fighter that provides IAF the much needed technological superiority over Pakistani JF 17s

However I do agree that we are pushing the limit on how much mk1a we need, (any more mk1a than this would be a foolish decision that can not be justified)
I just hope this does not eat into the order size of mk2.

Also Mk1a is never going to face the Chinese, it's range and payload capacity are too less to be of any use in the Himalayas against the Chinese bases deep in the Tibetan Plateau,

As it stands today, it is purely intended against the Pakistani's and will only be stationed on Western front

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Even I was questioning this order size but after digging deeper I can confidently say that it's the right decision.

Current PAF inventory
138 JF 17 Block 1 and 2 (no match for even the mk1)
50 JF Thunder Block 3 (formidable opponent against mk1a)

36 J 10 CE (mk1a would not be upto the task against this class of fighter we would need other fighters like Tejas mk2 for that)

75 F 16s (again mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we would need other fighters like Tejas mk2 for that)

53 F-7 (Chinese version of flying coffin) (will be replaced with JF 17s so additional orders of JF 17 are expected)

87 Mirage 3 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

92 Mirage 5 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms,) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

So as you can see by 2030 PAF would be operating nearly 250 - 300 JF 17's as PAF is going to inevitably order more JF 17s to replace it's aging fleet of F-7's and Mirages.
223 Tejas mk1a will be needed to counter that many JF 17s, not to mention Mk1a is an excellent fighter that provides IAF the much needed technological superiority over Pakistani JF 17s

However I do agree that we are pushing the limit on how much mk1a we need, (any more mk1a than this would be a foolish decision that can not be justified) I just hope this does not eat into the order size of mk2.

Also Mk1a is never going to face the Chinese, it's range and payload capacity is too less to be of any use in the Himalayas against the Chinese bases deep in the Tibetan Plateau,

As it stands today, it is purely intended against the Pakistani's and will only be stationed on Western front

Among the fighter jets in the PAF fleet, only the J10 can be considered a competent 4.5 generation aircraft. The remaining jets are of subpar quality, including the F16. It's important to remember that the Pakistani version of the F16 isn't the latest iteration; it's an older, outdated model. The fundamental design of the F16 is antiquated, and while there might be future upgrades to extend its usefulness, the airframe remains outdated, signaling the conclusion of the F16's design era.

 

[NG Missile Vessels]

Among the fighter jets in the PAF fleet, only the J10 can be considered a competent 4.5 generation aircraft. The remaining jets are of subpar quality, including the F16. It's important to remember that the Pakistani version of the F16 isn't the latest iteration; it's an older, outdated model. The fundamental design of the F16 is antiquated, and while there might be future upgrades to extend its usefulness, the airframe remains outdated, signaling the conclusion of the F16's design era.

Their fleet of 18 F-16 C/D Block 52 fighter aircraft is quite good

 

[Chandragupt Maurya]

Their fleet of 18 F-16 C/D Block 52 fighter aircraft is quite good

Yes but the F16's maiden flight occurred back in 1974, and there are limitations to the extent of its upgradability. The geometries of contemporary 4th generation aircraft are meticulously optimized to minimize Radar Cross Section (RCS), a trait exemplified by features such as the seamless fusion of wings with the fuselage. This characteristic can be observed in aircraft like Tejas, Su30, Rafales, Gripen, and J10. However, it's absent in models such as the MiG-21, Jaguars, or the F16. Beyond this, numerous distinctions exist in the design of modern 4th generation jets, like the utilization of carbon composite materials, which set them apart from their older counterparts.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Yes but the F16's maiden flight occurred back in 1974, and there are limitations to the extent of its upgradability. The geometries of contemporary 4th generation aircraft are meticulously optimized to minimize Radar Cross Section (RCS), a trait exemplified by features such as the seamless fusion of wings with the fuselage. This characteristic can be observed in aircraft like Tejas, Su30, Rafales, Gripen, and J10. However, it's absent in models such as the MiG-21, Jaguars, or the F16. Beyond this, numerous distinctions exist in the design of modern 4th generation jets, like the utilization of carbon composite materials, which set them apart from their older counterparts.

Any day - F 16 Block 52 fighter aircraft is better than these lightweight fighters (Jf-17 and Hal Tejas) with AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles.

Even I was questioning this order size but after digging deeper I can confidently say that it's the right decision.

Current PAF inventory
138 JF 17 Block 1 and 2 (no match for even the mk1)
50 JF Thunder Block 3 (formidable opponent against mk1a)

36 J 10 CE (mk1a would not be upto the task against this class of fighter we would need other fighters like Tejas mk2 for that)

75 F 16s (again mk1a not upto the task against this class of fighter we would need other fighters like Tejas mk2 for that)

53 F-7 (Chinese version of flying coffin) (will be replaced with JF 17s so additional orders of JF 17 are expected)

87 Mirage 3 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

92 Mirage 5 (capable fighters and deep strike platforms,) (might be replaced with J10 and future variants of JF 17)

So as you can see by 2030 PAF would be operating nearly 250 - 300 JF 17's as PAF is going to inevitably order more JF 17s to replace it's aging fleet of F-7's and Mirages.
223 Tejas mk1a will be needed to counter that many JF 17s, not to mention Mk1a is an excellent fighter that provides IAF the much needed technological superiority over Pakistani JF 17s

However I do agree that we are pushing the limit on how much mk1a we need, (any more mk1a than this would be a foolish decision that can not be justified) I just hope this does not eat into the order size of mk2.

Also Mk1a is never going to face the Chinese, it's range and payload capacity is too less to be of any use in the Himalayas against the Chinese bases deep in the Tibetan Plateau,

As it stands today, it is purely intended against the Pakistani's and will only be stationed on Western front

I am not talking about 2030, I am talking about the next 20–30 years.

Since we have nuclear weapons, nobody will try to attack us at that moment. Particularly, we will have more fighter aircraft than the PAF, even with the lowest fighter squadrons.

It's just about 4-5 years, I'm nobody's to decide, but from my personal point of view, it would be a waste of money to put more on HAL Tejas Mk1a.... better to focus on AMCA and Tejas Mk2.

Example - Just upgrade Su 30 Mki with a better engine, Radar, and sensors, and with the Astra Mk2 (160 Km range), 250 + Su 30 Mki with such capability, even Chinese will not try to do any misadventures (upgrade within the next 5-6 years).

Even if the USA has been updating its fighter jets for decades and they are still deadly, I am not at all delighted for Indian babus because they love to go shoppings.

 

[Faceless]

Any day - F 16 Block 52 fighter aircraft is better than these lightweight fighters (Jf-17 and Hal Tejas) with AIM-120 AMRAAM missiles.



I am not talking about 2030, I am talking about the next 20–30 years.

Since we have nuclear weapons, nobody will try to attack us at that moment. Particularly, we will have more fighter aircraft than the PAF, even with the lowest fighter squadrons.

It's just about 4-5 years, I'm nobody's to decide, but from my personal point of view, it would be a waste of money to put more on HAL Tejas Mk1a.... better to focus on AMCA and Tejas Mk2.

Example - Just upgrade Su 30 Mki with a better engine, Radar, and sensors, and with the Astra Mk2 (160 Km range), 250 + Su 30 Mki with such capability, even Chinese will not try to do any adventure (within the next 5-6 years).

Even if the USA has been updating its fighter jets for decades and they are still dangerous, I am not at all delighted for Indian babus because they love to buy constantly.

Even after 20-30 years PAF is still going to have their JF 17's and these Tejas mk1a's will be their main adversary smoking their arses even then.
Our mk1a is more upgradable than their JF 17's.
We need these mk1a's to free up our other assets for the Eastern front.

In 20 years UCAV's like CATS warrior and Ghatak are going to dominate the air warfare and these UCAV's are going to be integrated to 4th gen fighters like Tejas too.
Only 2 countries have 5th gen fighters as of now and others are starting to catch-up only now so 4th gen fighters aren't going anywhere they will always form the bulk of any airforce and in our case they will be IAF's bulk against PAG and their JF 17s

Rest assured mk1a is not going to lose its relevance even 20 years down the line.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Even after 20-30 years PAF is still going to have their JF 17's and these Tejas mk1a's will be their main adversary smoking their arses even then.
Our mk1a is more upgradable than their JF 17's.
We need these mk1a's to free up our other assets for the Eastern front.

In 20 years UCAV's like CATS warrior and Ghatak are going to dominate the air warfare and these UCAV's are going to be integrated to 4th gen fighters like Tejas too.
Only 2 countries have 5th gen fighters as of now and others are starting to catch-up only now, 4th gen fighters aren't going anywhere they will always form the bulk of any airforce and in our case they will be IAF's bulk against JF 17s

Rest assured mk1a is not going to lose its relevance even 20 years down the line.

I'm still not sure - why are you bringing Jf 17?

Can't we wait 4-5 years, and have Hal Tejas Mk2? that can be even more capable of dealing with Chinese fighters?

HAL will produce 80 fighters (+ 40 already available) in Mk1a from 2024–25 to 2029–30.

HAL Tejas Mk2 should go into production starting in 2031–2032.

 

[Jamie Brooks]

I'm still not sure - why are you bringing Jf 17?

Can't we wait 4-5 years, and have Hal Tejas Mk2? that can be even more capable of dealing with Chinese fighters?

HAL will produce 80 fighters (+ 40 already available) in Mk1a from 2024–25 to 2029–30.

HAL Tejas Mk2 should go into production starting in 2031–2022.

Mk2 looks more promising and should have been prioritized 3-4 yrs back. Pushing the timeline to 2031 seems might be overshadowed by amca if india manages to speed up its development. At that point will IAF acquire it? Or choose some unmanned fighter available by then? Mk2 future development might even be dropped completely part ways… pushing this out might be a death sentence .

 

[Faceless]

I'm still not sure - why are you bringing Jf 17?

Can't we wait 4-5 years, and have Hal Tejas Mk2? that can be even more capable of dealing with Chinese fighters?

HAL will produce 80 fighters (+ 40 already available) in Mk1a from 2024–25 to 2029–30.

HAL Tejas Mk2 should go into production starting in 2031–2032.

The only reason I am bringing JF 17 is because it's going to be the backbone of PAF for coming decades and mk1a being a fighter of the same class is formidable counter to it.

I am not saying we don't need mk2, I am saying we don't need mk2 for countering PAF, mk1a can do that job easily, more efficiently and cost effectively than any other fighter in IAF inventory (including the mk2), freeing up our current and future assets (like Su 30, Tejas mk2, AMCA) for countering PLAAF

And given the number of JF 17 (taking future orders in consideration) in PAF inventory ( by 2030 PAF could be operating some 300 JF 17s) it makes sense having 223 Tejas mk1a with the rest of numbers (80 something) being filled by mk2.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Mk2 looks more promising and should have been prioritized 3-4 yrs back. Pushing the timeline to 2031 seems might be overshadowed by amca if india manages to speed up its development. At that point will IAF acquire it? Or choose some unmanned fighter available by then? Mk2 future development might even be dropped completely part ways… pushing this out might be a death sentence .

Agreed... But until 2050–2060, Asian air forces will continue to use 4.5 generation fighter aircraft... Hal Tejas Mk2 is thus still a wise investment. 5th gen fighters will be available in limited numbers due to their high cost.

The only reason I am bringing JF 17 is because it's going to be the backbone of PAF for coming decades and mk1a being a fighter of the same class is formidable counter to it.

I am not saying we don't need mk2, I am saying we don't need mk2 for countering PAF, mk1a can do that job easily, more efficiently and cost effectively than any other fighter in IAF inventory (including the mk2), freeing up our current and future assets (like Su 30, Tejas mk2, AMCA) for countering PLAAF

And given the number of JF 17 (taking future orders in consideration) in PAF it makes sense having 223 Tejas mk1a

Yaar read it again. I only said that we need a better fighter to invest in to deal Chinese airforce

It is clear that the Hal Tejas Mk2 can be employed against both the PAF and the Chinese Air Force. Why do you want to stick with the JF-17 and comparable aircraft only? If PAF will induct 350 JF 17 fighters, then are you going to induct 350 Hal Tejas Mk1a aircraft?

This is complete BS logic.

If I had the choice to build a superior aircraft than HAL Tejas Mk1a, I would do so and compete with the JF-17 fighter. Why not? I would like to induct more HAL Tejas Mk2 fighters to deal with the Chinese and Pakistani air forces.

Anyhow, some of the most Cht**ya persons in office are members of our Airforce and babus. With AESA radar and other upgrades, they had planned to modernise the Jaguar fighter, and forget about one of the deadliest fighter of the time and getting outdated day by day (Su 30 Mki), but they only had plans on paper dating back ten years.

Su 30 Mki is the most potential aircraft to upgrade with the deadliest missiles, radar, and sensors, similar to Boeing F-15EX Eagle II

 

[khansaheeb]

Tejas is a 3rd generation plane that has finally taken off after 2 decades. It's only value is for suppressing internal strife within India, it is no match for Pakistani or Chinese planes. India is going for the quantity and not quality route and will get a good drumming from China if ever it pitches these planes against J10s.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

Tejas is a 3rd generation plane that has finally take after off after 2 decades. It's only value is for suppressing internal strife within Indisa, it is no match for Pakistani or Chinese planes. India is going for the quantity and not quality route and will get a good drumming from China if ever it pitches these planes against J10s.

Similar to JF 17, third generation, anytime and at any place they stand, they will be tagged with the same level. However, because people are ethnonational, how highly they rank their fighters depends on the nation to which they belong.

If it was so good, PAF would never needed to buy J10 aircraft. Currently, they are at standing at 3rd level.

1. 5th gen fighters
2. Rafale, EU fighter, Gripen, J 10, Su 35, ETC,..
3. HAl Tejas, Jf 17 ETC...

Su 30 Mki, F 16 are potential for 2nd level only but with better upgrades and sensors.

 

[khansaheeb]

Similar to JF 17, third generation, anytime and at any place they stand, they will be tagged with the same level. However, because people are ethnonational, how highly they rank their fighters depends on the nation to which they belong.

If it was so good, PAF would never need to buy J10 aircraft.

JF17 has already proven its worth in conflict, Tejas has still to show its value.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

JF17 has already proven its worth in conflict, Tejas has still to show its value.

the first few moments after the tragedy Do we really need to rate a most competent fighter when Mirage 2000 dropped the bombs a day prior to the incident? Even PAF older generation of Mirages dropped the last-leg bombs.

During the feb, 2019 incident, there was only one effective fighter - F 16 with BVR missiles.

People are so emotional - Pakistanis do not want to listen against Jf 17 and Indians do not want against Hal Tejas.

 

[Faceless]

It is clear that the Hal Tejas Mk2 can be employed against both the PAF and the Chinese Air Force. Why do you want to stick with the JF-17 and comparable aircraft only?

Paisa Babu bhaiya Paisa, mk2 would cost more, would need more maintenance and would be an overall strain on the budget. It would not make sense to field such an expensive (relatively speaking) aircraft against PAF fighters like JF 17 in such large numbers.

Think about it this way, would you field F35's against both JF 17's and J 20, although F35 is clearly superior to both of them, it doesn't make sense fielding F35 against JF 17 because the cost wouldn't justify it similarly fielding mk2 against JF 17 doesn't justify its value.

If PAF will induct 350 JF 17 fighters, then are you going to induct 350 Hal Tejas Mk1a aircraft?

If history is anything to go by both PAF and IAF have worked that way for decades.
was it a wise choice, I very much doubt it, but it is what it is. Ab kya hi kar sakte hai

Anyhow, some of the most Cht**ya persons in office are members of our Airforce and babus. With AESA radar and other upgrades, they had planned to modernise the Jaguar fighter,

Those guys are not ch*tiya, they are very much smart and know what they are doing, it's just that they are super corrupt and will get a massive cut from this upgrade deal.

Su 30 Mki is the most potential aircraft to upgrade with the deadliest missiles, radar, and sensors, similar to Boeing F-15EX Eagle II

100% Right, Super Sukhoi can take on any PLAAF fighter barring J20