IAF Scales Down FGFA Numbers By A Third: Report

[IND151]

The Indian Air Force has scaled down its requirement for the proposed Indo-Russian fifth generation fighter aircraft (FGFA) by 70 aircraft -- it has put down a requirement now for just 144 aircraft, down from 214 earlier stated (166 single seaters and 48 twin-seaters). In an interview to India Strategic magazine, IAF Chief Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has said that all 144 of these will be single-seater aircraft (which explains the modified single-seat wind-tunnel model unveiled recently by HAL).

Livefist: IAF Scales Down FGFA Numbers By A Third: Report

 

[sancho]

Honestly, since Air Marshal Brown took service, everything about this went into chaos. First it was 250 twin seaters, then 166 single and 48 twin, now 144 single seaters and so on. Can't he make one official straight statement instead of fuelling the media with so many confusing infos?

 

[SQ8]

Scale up the AMCA numbers.. and take some from the LCA as well.
The AMCA is critical since it will pave the way for a complete indigenousization of the IAF.

 

[OrionHunter]

Honestly, since Air Marshal Brown took service, everything about this went into chaos. First it was 250 twin seaters, then 166 single and 48 twin, now 144 single seaters and so on. Can't he make one official straight statement instead of fuelling the media with so many confusing infos?

That's to confuse the adversaries!!

 

[Kinetic]

Scale up the AMCA numbers.. and take some from the LCA as well.
The AMCA is critical since it will pave the way for a complete indigenousization of the IAF.

I also thinking same. They are putting much effort on AMCA. It should be greater in number than T-50/FGFA.

 

[IND151]

Scale up the AMCA numbers.. and take some from the LCA as well.
The AMCA is critical since it will pave the way for a complete indigenousization of the IAF.

there is no firm decision about AMCA yet and it is still on paper

it seems that IAF dont want 200+ FGFAs due to fact that maintaining 5th gen fighters is very costly

or may be other fact

may be IAF is planning to have a 4.75 gen version of Super MKI
- less maintenance intensive, less costly and offering common components advantage upto a significant extent

OR

they don't want the risk of modernization of IAF getting delayed due to delay in FGFA project and are thinking on other options

to me, both reasons seem possible for this decision

I also thinking same. They are putting much effort on AMCA. It should be greater in number than T-50/FGFA.

really?

if true very good

 

[jnd3x0]

Honestly, since Air Marshal Brown took service, everything about this went into chaos. First it was 250 twin seaters, then 166 single and 48 twin, now 144 single seaters and so on. Can't he make one official straight statement instead of fuelling the media with so many confusing infos?

Sir I think because India has soo many options to go for, he is just doing a lot of Cost and benefits evaluation which is not commonly understandable by civilians, which may results to such decisions.

 

[Abingdonboy]

It is still very early days I'm sure more will be ordered later.

 

[sancho]

Scale up the AMCA numbers.. and take some from the LCA as well.
The AMCA is critical since it will pave the way for a complete indigenousization of the IAF.

If that would be the aim, any investment in FGFA would be a total waste. You don't invest 10 billion dollars to buy just a small number of fighters. Not to forget that AMCA is nothing but a paperdream of DRDO, India can't afford to believe their promises after their constant failures in the aero field.
Complete indigenouzation is the wrong way anyway, because it would limit us to certain techs, instead of taking the advantage of a completely open defence market for India. It also would require Indian defence industry to be at least close to offer similar arms and techs, but we are still decades behind, so that's not realistic as well.

 

[Gessler]

No figure/number that comes up before the real Indian-version FGFA is
out and ready for induction is binding.

Browne wont even be the CAS by the time it comes! What does he know
of the future ???

The FGFas will be procured in tranches, the numbers will keep growing, this
plane is gonna replace all the ~ 300 Sukhois we have starting 2030-2035!

While AMCA will be for replacing the 130-odd Jaguars, 50+ Mirages and
60-odd MiG-29s after 2020. That's cuz it seems Rafale will start replacing the
140-odd MiG-27s starting 2017, and LCA is for replacing the 150+ MiG-21s.

All in all, I can say all these numbers are just assumptions, just a year ago they
said they wanted 126 MMRCAs, now they want ~ 190. Just like that.

 

[Sergi]

If that would be the aim, any investment in FGFA would be a total waste. You don't invest 10 billion dollars to buy just a small number of fighters. Not to forget that AMCA is nothing but a paperdream of DRDO, India can't afford to believe their promises after their constant failures in the aero field.
Complete indigenouzation is the wrong way anyway, because it would limit us to certain techs, instead of taking the advantage of a completely open defence market for India. It also would require Indian defence industry to be at least close to offer similar arms and techs, but we are still decades behind, so that's not realistic as well.

Well I am confused
Correct me if I am wrong
1. FGFA will be a JV between IND & RUS
2. HAL will be producing FGFA after prototype phase.
3. So it will be a home grown fighter and NOT bough from RUSSIA.
4. So it's up to us that how many we should make in our production line and we don't need any permissions from Russia to produce for IAF
5. For export ( which is unlikely ) we need Russian NOD

 

[sancho]

Well I am confused
Correct me if I am wrong
1. FGFA will be a JV between IND & RUS
2. HAL will be producing FGFA after prototype phase.
3. So it will be a home grown fighter and NOT bough from RUSSIA.
4. So it's up to us that how many we should make in our production line and we don't need any permissions from Russia to produce for IAF
5. For export ( which is unlikely ) we need Russian NOD

All true, but such a high investment in the development of the fighter and certain techs will be a waste, if there is just a minimum order. Look at Arjun, or LCA, both were developed with several 100s in mind, but the reality is different.

 

[Sergi]

All true, but such a high investment in the development of the fighter and certain techs will be a waste, if there is just a minimum order. Look at Arjun, or LCA, both were developed with several 100s in mind, but the reality is different.

If all true then why different numbers are coming out ???
And I think the contribution we are going to make in the project is one time. So what ever investment needed for JV is going to be paid by GOI no matter you produce 10 or 100.
Then question remain " Is IAF denying to buy more from HAL ???" when in real sence IAF should be going for more numbers to reduce per AC cost and maintain the SQD strength with replacements

 

[Backbencher]

140 is not a bad number considering the varities of birds that IAF will operate in the near future .
Are we Indians aiming to become a military superpower , cause having the best tech. of France and Russia will only leave US ahead of us !!!

 

[arp2041]

No figure/number that comes up before the real Indian-version FGFA is
out and ready for induction is binding.

Browne wont even be the CAS by the time it comes! What does he know
of the future ???

The FGFas will be procured in tranches, the numbers will keep growing, this
plane is gonna replace all the ~ 300 Sukhois we have starting 2030-2035!

While AMCA will be for replacing the 130-odd Jaguars, 50+ Mirages and
60-odd MiG-29s after 2020. That's cuz it seems Rafale will start replacing the
140-odd MiG-27s starting 2017, and LCA is for replacing the 150+ MiG-21s.

All in all, I can say all these numbers are just assumptions, just a year ago they
said they wanted 126 MMRCAs, now they want ~ 190. Just like that.

If all true then why different numbers are coming out ???
And I think the contribution we are going to make in the project is one time. So what ever investment needed for JV is going to be paid by GOI no matter you produce 10 or 100.
Then question remain " Is IAF denying to buy more from HAL ???" when in real sence IAF should be going for more numbers to reduce per AC cost and maintain the SQD strength with replacements

Well, i think that we should not take the Chief's statement at face value, IAF chief is currently assuming about the nos. as he seems the future IAF will be beyond 2020, what future threat comes post 2020 is the thing that no one can say for sure, IAF (or for that matter IA & IN), have been procuring limited nos. of ac in the beginning & with time they have inducted more & more, best example being the su-30mki's, starting with 50 in late 90's to presently 272 (including super sukhois), in 90's IAF was not sure about su-30 induction, but there success forced IAF to induct them in large nos., so much so that i m still not sure if the 272 figure is a final one, since i think the final no. of su-30s will be 300+ for sure. So is the deal of MMRCA, it started with a figure of 126, but even before the deal is signed, IAF personnel are claiming it to be around 190, again i have no doubt that the final nos. can be 220+.

What ACM Browne is thinking is that they should start the production of FGFA asap & the initial no. of FGFA should be limited so that they can be inducted fast into the IAF, but certainly the nos. are gonna rise above 200 (depending on the performance of the a/c).

+ I don't think that FGFA will replace su-30s anytime soon, instead they will complement su-30's, since they will remain in the IAF inventory till 2040 atleast & FGFA induction will start post 2020, so in the 20 years post 2020, IAF will be maintaining both FGFAs & Su-30s.