Russia can't deliver on Fifth Generation Fighter Aircatft project : Indian Air Force

[SrNair]

yup , but some refuse to read the article. India showing a backbone and not accepting anything russia throws at them , like was the case during the cold war.



how does not giving you any critical tech transfer, charging you 600 billion and then providing not upto Indian specs aircraft = attacking the messenger?

makes no sense.

this is the same crap russians have given before where lifetime costs and spare parts were a big issue. you should be proud that IAF is not going accept the same old same old from the russians.

this is good negotiation from India. russians need indian money and they need to understand that the days of dictating to India are over.

But some how better than US .US dont give their technology .Their law will not allow that.But Russians help in nuke submarine and several other projects so we cant ignore Russians completely and at least we can bargain with Russian for ToT ,but that not work in the case of US.IAF now play this because they now need proven Dassault Rafale.FGFA technology is still evolving .But you are right Russians technology become older.We cant rely on them in future because a country that is large as ours cant rely foreign countries for defence.
Only answer is indigenisation.But roll back from FGFA is not going to happen.We invested so much money and it may cause crisis between India and Russia

 

[duhastmish]

IAF are retard bloody corrupt baskard. Kick em and teach them truth.

India is poor.
India is suffering economy crisis.
They can't afford wat IAF propose.

 

[Khan_patriot]

the question is if it ''cant'' or it ''wont''?

 

[Ping]

This is for the better. PAK-FA is the least stealth looking fighter of all the 5th generation fighters unveiled so far(except the chinese ones). The number 1 criteria of any stealth aircraft is to hide its engines. PAK-FA fails in that and adds only radar blockers. And even with radar blockers, some 20-25% of the engine is in the direct line of sight of the intake's openings. Number 2, it's belly is anything but 5th generation. SAMS would have a field day detecting the PAK-FA's ***. This PAK-FA is a big failure from the sukhoi industry. IAF should dump the PAK-FA like a hot potato unless Russia corrects these 2 major flaws.

There are some other issues as well, uneven surfaces and round engine. But these are issues which will not impact stealth as much as the former 2 points mentioned. Infact round engines is a must considering the loss of thrust and huge stress on the engines if its nozzle is flat. The advantage of flat nozzles is minimal and disadvantage far outweighs the advantage.



1# Fully hidden engine blades.
2# Re-design of belly.

Russia, if you cant correct the above 2 major flaws, take your junk with you!! India should go it alone with AMCA no matter now many decades it takes. As for F-35, we'd rather burn that money than waste it on a sanction-prone fat-tubby bomber. Atleast it would warm people during winter. A MiG-21 would tear it apart in a Dogfight. It is as maneuverable as a Sukhoi-9!!! Calling it a fighter is a disgrace to the fighter class. It's just a Bomber with a radar, other avionics and missiles of a fighter-plane. Apart from that its agility is below par to be classified as a fighter. Like a said, a Sukhoi-9's agility with fifth generation stealth and avionics.

 

[Last Samuri]

I KNEW this would happen.

No Way is the indian nation rich enough to but 126+ rafale & FGFA at the same time. ie between 2014 and 2030.

We are talking $25 billion for each programme.

One has to go and for ditching the FGFA is the right solution.

I,m not convinced its true stealth for a start and i dont think the russians want to share the technology they just want indian money.

The indians have a great opportunity with what i believe should be the LAST overseas fighter that IAF ever buys off shelf from another country
The rafale with its incredible cockit tech, very advanced airframe and execellent modern weapons is the right way to go

Beyond rafale IAF shuld look at AMCA link up with Israel or Sweden and do it yourself.

In the mea time between 2014-2025 just rafale & tejas only than

NEW DELHI about to blow FGFA out of water the russians will be shocked

viv la france .

 

[JayAtl]

But some how better than US .US dont give their technology .Their law will not allow that.But Russians help in nuke submarine and several other projects so we cant ignore Russians completely and at least we can bargain with Russian for ToT ,but that not work in the case of US.IAF now play this because they now need proven Dassault Rafale.FGFA technology is still evolving .But you are right Russians technology become older.We cant rely on them in future because a country that is large as ours cant rely foreign countries for defence.
Only answer is indigenisation.But roll back from FGFA is not going to happen.We invested so much money and it may cause crisis between India and Russia

where did you see anything about the US in my previous comment ? BTW at least with the US you know where you stand, you get delivered things on time, they are high quality and if we say we give you TOT we will give it you. Nor do we come back and charge you 3 X the bill after the fact.

and nobody said rollback, just negotiate hard. don't take this Bs from the russians. You want indian money, you give TOT and you deliver to the indian specs, period. else- go some place else


and yes US has recently said they would rather do collaboration projects with indians.

one more thing,remember the javelin deal? India wanted TOT and US said no. what did India do, it said okay we go elsewhere and what did US do? came back and said let's do a JV on a 4th generation javelin and you get TOT too. that is the result of India showing a backbone

 

[favabeans]

Since India is such an engineering powerhouse, why doesn't India develop an indigenous fighter?

 

[JayAtl]

And now we have a brown sepoy to further the case.

I rather be brown and it is sexy to be brown- than be a illiterate anyday..

Since India is such an engineering powerhouse, why doesn't India develop an indigenous fighter?

right, so for 22 years nobody has developed stealth like the americans= everyone else is mediocre in the engineering field.

 

[Fattyacids]

right, so for 22 years nobody has developed stealth like the americans= everyone else is mediocre in the engineering field.

but you can't even make a 4th gen fighter

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

The complaint seems to be, not that Russia can't deliver, but that it won't deliver the tech to India.

exactly .. no country deliver such hi tech at just $6 billion ..

 

[JayAtl]

but you can't even make a 4th gen fighter

nor can you and your aircraft's depends on russian engines.

and being the 2nd largest GDP you even have the money to spend on resources to try it but you still can't make it. I guess you have not yet got your hands on stealing those designs yet.

 

[Fattyacids]

nor can you and your aircraft's depends on russian engines.

and being the 2nd largest GDP you even have the money to spend on resources to try it but you still can't make it. I guess you have not yet got your hands on stealing those designs yet.

Russian can supply the engine, but you still can't produce a fighter after 22 years

We already have a working WS-10.

 

[JayAtl]

Russian can supply the engine, but you still can't produce a fighter after 22 years

We already have a working WS-10.

after being the 2nd largest GDP you are still decades behind the the americans , even after you stole and did the infamous copy paste, WS 10 is still made in china garbage. 22 years is the time frame it takes to make a new aircraft , at least they did without stealing and while having limited resources....

2nd highest GDP and still call a casino ship an aircraft carrier

 

[Genesis]

Russian first offered to us, but after a review we refused.

We concluded, Russians are not advancing forward as much as they think they are. The investment to return is not good enough. S-400 development, Russians showed they they won't share what crappy systems they have compared to the West, even though they are dirty poor.

Russia is running on fumes here. At a mere 2 trillion GDP and not being a developed nation, Russia can no longer hang with the big boys. Not that they ever did except in a few key fields, but they cannot match US tech for tech and piece for piece. With the current Russian growth rate, how much money they can spend now is more or less how much they will have for a long time.

Technology development is not in a vacuum, much of the current America fighter technology either originated from civilian sectors, or from military industry, but improved in the civilian world. America has the economy and industry to do it. Russia frankly does not.

Fifth generation engine and tech is incredibly difficult and costly, it's simply a game of see who can throw more money down the drain before plugging the drain to fill it with water and have a pool.


Cut the cord, start developing your own fighter, it may take you another 3 decades, but at least by that time you would have caught up to world standards more or less instead of waiting for a Russian fighter of the 6th generation that's behind schedule and underfunded, if they can even get one off the ground at all.

 

[Indischer]

Exactly my thoughts, he has been pushing F-35s from very day F-16 and F-18 were not short listed for MMRCA. So every one, take it with a bucket of salt.

But how will him telling such stuff help in sales of F 35? It's not like the Defence Ministry is taking decisions on the basis of his articles. I'm only interested in knowing if the IAF has indeed expressed it's displeasure over the FGFA deal. Coz they're someone whom the Def Ministry will listen to!