IAF Scales Down FGFA Numbers By A Third: Report

[shahadat hussain]

Basically, you are saying add more western a/c, instead, but the claim is by Indinas and i guess the backgroud could be that they do not need too many a/c, than why are you suggesting a compensation?


Till today, all world have tried to help Indians, including French, American, Europeans, Russinas but the have failed to come up with a design of their own.
Why you believe there will be a sudden change in technology absorption in India?
or perhaps you are teasing Indians with word 'indigenization'!

a$$ burning as a felow mate is giving some valuable suggestion ?

 

[cirr]

India can only afford 144 such planes。

And that's at least 10 years down the road，by which time the world will be totally and utterly different，politically、economically and technologically！！

 

[faithfulguy]

I think that is the reason. A twin seater, after the T50, will take like 2030 to be inducted, knowing India and DRDO.

I think maybe they plan to induct T50 faster, and then go on to learn from that and develop the AMCA.

Unfortunately for India, it has not shown any capability to absorb technology obtained through TOT. As a result, enemies of India would be overjoyeded when India is putting more resource into indigenous efforts as this mean that India can field less number of planes in the battlefield. Imaging how many more MKI or MRCA can India get if it choose to buy a light weight established fighter instead of wasting in the LCA development hell.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

India can only afford 144 such planes。

And that's at least 10 years down the road，by which time the world will be totally and utterly different，politically、economically and technologically！！

Well by 2017 india own stealth plane started to fly, thats the reason russian no. reduced. know the thing before commenting.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Unfortunately for India, it has not shown any capability to absorb technology obtained through TOT. As a result, enemies of India would be overjoyeded when India is putting more resource into indigenous efforts as this mean that India can field less number of planes in the battlefield. Imaging how many more MKI or MRCA can India get if it choose to buy a light weight established fighter instead of wasting in the LCA development hell.

LCA has its own unique advantages, which i think dont know, India absorbs technology thats the reason LCA is flying.


Their is difference between absorbing the technology and copy/steal the technology. Technology developed in LCA will be used in indian stealth program , the effect will start after 2020.

like india made coptor and now its made the Light attack coper in no time......

 

[Sergi]

LCA has its own unique advantages, which i think dont know, India absorbs technology thats the reason LCA is flying.


Their is difference between absorbing the technology and copy/steal the technology. Technology developed in LCA will be used in indian stealth program , the effect will start after 2020.

like india made coptor and now its made the Light attack coper in no time......

LCA has earned Indians very good experience but it has nothing to do with stealth. It will only be suitable for basics. As far as stealth is concern we are at primary stage on our own. That's why we are doing JV with Russians

 

[newdelhinsa]

India can only afford 144 such planes。

And that's at least 10 years down the road，by which time the world will be totally and utterly different，politically、economically and technologically！！

From a 50 cent army perspective world has already changed and India is relegated but still no han scoundrel can do a squat about India with or without 5th generation jet. Even if China will buy 20 squadrons of f-22 or f-35 we be still your dad across himalaya and IOR.

 

[KRAIT]

How many nations have built their own Aircrafts and Engines ?

At one place people mock India's lack of technology advancement and when we make something and it gets delayed due to sanctions, denial of essential technology and there is no foreign support, why all come bashing India ?

Make a firm stance and then discuss the matter. Look at the technical gap and years that exist when you compare India's progress with others.

FGFA, is designed with HAL so there will be Indian input. Many things installed will be from foreign suppliers, so nothing wrong with it as long as it makes the aircraft better.

If you don't trust Indians' capabilities (which I think seems logical to you guys), at least trust Russia who is equal partner in it.

We missed the designing phase of PAK-FA due to our fault. It was an important knowledge transfer. But still we can learn a lot.

India learned one thing from LCA, if you face any problem and think you can't achieve it in time or you are re-inventing the wheel, then its better to collaborate with those who are leaders in the area.

India is not developing FGFA alone. And the concept will be more or less similar to PAK-FA. So this shows that FGFA can be achieved within a decade. First prototype delivery is in 2014. Till then lets wait. Timeline seems realistic.

P.S. Kindly read more about LCA and then comment.

 

[Cherokee]

That's right commi. Now STFU if you can't add anything valuable. Don't derail the thread

There was No Point in getting personal with "Cirr" . And He Added Something Very Valuable to The thread . Remove your "Hate Lens" and you will see . Anyways Your Post will be reported . Kindly Refrain from Such Cheap Shots from Next Time . Thank you .

 

[Sergi]

How many nations have built their own Aircrafts and Engines ?

At one place people mock India's lack of technology advancement and when we make something and it gets delayed due to sanctions, denial of essential technology and there is no foreign support, why all come bashing India ?

Make a firm stance and then discuss the matter. Look at the technical gap and years that exist when you compare India's progress with others.

FGFA, is designed with HAL so there will be Indian input. Many things installed will be from foreign suppliers, so nothing wrong with it as long as it makes the aircraft better.

If you don't trust Indians' capabilities (which I think seems logical to you guys), at least trust Russia who is equal partner in it.

We missed the designing phase of PAK-FA due to our fault. It was an important knowledge transfer. But still we can learn a lot.

India learned one thing from LCA, if you face any problem and think you can't achieve it in time or you are re-inventing the wheel, then its better to collaborate with those who are leaders in the area.

India is not developing FGFA alone. And the concept will be more or less similar to PAK-FA. So this shows that FGFA can be achieved within a decade. First prototype delivery is in 2014. Till then lets wait. Timeline seems realistic.

P.S. Kindly read more about LCA and then comment.

Majority of aerodynamics and flight characters will be developed by Russains ( and I think those are almost ready ) so the part remaing is avionics. Russian will do that too but Indians as a habit will customise it with IAF needs. So I think all India is going to do with prototypes is avionics and mission computer programming. Nothing more. So if PAK-FA get ready in 2016. FGFA will be ready by 2017.
It isn't the old schedule when we were going to design twin seat fighter from PAK-FA. Now the change in parameter will considerably bring down the timeline. So let's wait till we get our first prototype in 2014. By that time Russians will be done with nearly all tests and their prototype will be in LSP stage and stealth test.

At present we all the the timeline of FGFA twin seater and NOT the revised Single seater. As I said earlier in PAK-FA thread too more information will be out when we actually sign the agreement in Putin's visit.

There was No Point in getting personal with "Cirr" . And He Added Something Very Valuable to The thread . Remove your "Hate Lens" and you will see . Anyways Your Post will be reported . Kindly Refrain from Such Cheap Shots from Next Time . Thank you .

Yes I know his valuable contribution. That was his first post in this thread. Go and visit the Economy thread. I know some chinese members are sensible and unbiased. He isn't one of them. You can praise him all you want.
please Don't tell me what to do. You can report my post just spare me the lecture and let that be job to MODs. Refrain from that

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

LCA has earned Indians very good experience but it has nothing to do with stealth. It will only be suitable for basics. As far as stealth is concern we are at primary stage on our own. That's why we are doing JV with Russians

Well LCA help in design engg to study aerodynamic behaviours, radar reflection at various angles, altitude behaviour of their own composite material etc, their radar, computer system and various other things develop for lca will be going to indian stealth.

Design alone cannot make stealth , material also matter.

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

How many nations have built their own Aircrafts and Engines ?

At one place people mock India's lack of technology advancement and when we make something and it gets delayed due to sanctions, denial of essential technology and there is no foreign support, why all come bashing India ?

Make a firm stance and then discuss the matter. Look at the technical gap and years that exist when you compare India's progress with others.

FGFA, is designed with HAL so there will be Indian input. Many things installed will be from foreign suppliers, so nothing wrong with it as long as it makes the aircraft better.

If you don't trust Indians' capabilities (which I think seems logical to you guys), at least trust Russia who is equal partner in it.

We missed the designing phase of PAK-FA due to our fault. It was an important knowledge transfer. But still we can learn a lot.

India learned one thing from LCA, if you face any problem and think you can't achieve it in time or you are re-inventing the wheel, then its better to collaborate with those who are leaders in the area.

India is not developing FGFA alone. And the concept will be more or less similar to PAK-FA. So this shows that FGFA can be achieved within a decade. First prototype delivery is in 2014. Till then lets wait. Timeline seems realistic.

P.S. Kindly read more about LCA and then comment.

If you don't know , India is developing its own stealth under medium weight category plane, LCA is light weight category plane , then indian stealth will be medium weight and russian will be heavy weight.

Many thing develop over times and cost consuming , India is not a war with any country no in arms race unlike russia and usa ,

the technology/planes/ arms develop during 60,70,80, etc are more faster then todays arms development. even US/Russa takes time to develop new technology.

 

[Sergi]

Well LCA help in design engg to study aerodynamic behaviours, radar reflection at various angles, altitude behaviour of their own composite material etc, their radar, computer system and various other things develop for lca will be going to indian stealth.

Design alone cannot make stealth , material also matter.

Composite material - yup correct
radar - those are just claims. Will agree when see it working. Possibility is of JV on radar with Freach company.

LCA wasn't ever design and developed considering stealth character. It's main purpose is low cost single engine figter grown in house.so can use in numbers. Mark-2 will be 4+ but nowhere near VLO may be near LO if the additional features make it to MK-2. But that's distance dream

Stealth design include modified air-frame , engines , composite and and VLO or LO oveall aerodynamic shape. Anything that can go form LCA to stealth jet will be cockpit interior and displays. And if as you say we were capable of doing that by the experience of LCA we would have never invested in T-50.
We are technologically far behind in designing jets. We will be catching up in next few years with the help of Russian JV and the TOT we will get from Rafale. Let's hope AMCA come true to our hopes

]If you don't know[/B] , India is developing its own stealth under medium weight category plane, LCA is light weight category plane , then indian stealth will be medium weight and russian will be heavy weight.

Many thing develop over times and cost consuming , India is not a war with any country no in arms race unlike russia and usa ,

the technology/planes/ arms develop during 60,70,80, etc are more faster then todays arms development. even US/Russa takes time to develop new technology.

My friend he knows better than you and me. Read his post again. You will get his point which is correct

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

Composite material - yup correct
radar - those are just claims. Will agree when see it working. Possibility is of JV on radar with Freach company.

LCA wasn't ever design and developed considering stealth character. It's main purpose is low cost single engine figter grown in house.so can use in numbers. Mark-2 will be 4+ but nowhere near VLO may be near LO if the additional features make it to MK-2. But that's distance dream

Stealth design include modified air-frame , engines , composite and and VLO or LO oveall aerodynamic shape. Anything that can go form LCA to stealth jet will be cockpit interior and displays. And if as you say we were capable of doing that by the experience of LCA we would have never invested in T-50.
We are technologically far behind in designing jets. We will be catching up in next few years with the help of Russian JV and the TOT we will get from Rafale. Let's hope AMCA come true to our hopes



My friend he knows better than you and me. Read his post again. You will get his point which is correct

The problem is that , everyone knows from above and tries to become the expect.

The Stealth, in real terms no plane ever made 100 Stealth , every plane send back some waves , it the operator or the Radar Coding that make the decision if to neglect the signature as of flying bird .

If F-22 deflect radar waves to different directions and send very few waves in same direction but the receiving radar think that it is bird signature and didn't show it.

Its all about the Radar Coding and how it is done.

Likewise, LCA has very much adv radar absorbing material , coating and very small can also confuse the enemy radar by giving bunch of bird signature.

those people working is preparing the ground work for the indian stealth, radar , material , engine and everything will go on indian next plane will be ready in very less time.

 

[Sergi]

The problem is that , everyone knows from above and tries to become the expect.

The Stealth, in real terms no plane ever made 100 Stealth , every plane send back some waves , it the operator or the Radar Coding that make the decision if to neglect the signature as of flying bird .

If F-22 deflect radar waves to different directions and send very few waves in same direction but the receiving radar think that it is bird signature and didn't show it.

Its all about the Radar Coding and how it is done.

Likewise, LCA has very much adv radar absorbing material , coating and very small can also confuse the enemy radar by giving bunch of bird signature.

those people working is preparing the ground work for the indian stealth, radar , material , engine and everything will go on indian next plane will be ready in very less time.

Aren't you doing exactly the same thing ???
Stealth is VLO or LO on Radar. It isn't invisible to radar. It's the distance vs RSC which is matter.

I will say you are expecting a lot form LCA.
I suggest you post this in LCA stick thread. And SANCHO will be the ideal man to discuss with.
And try avoid ranting . That spoil the discussion. Good luck