IAF : Covering up Su-30 Loss?

[ziaulislam]

This appears to be a very good plot, for a movie; but Bollywood wouldn't take it.

Well this is reality ...bollywood is fantasy

I dont see any other explanation for india from backing out

 

[Rank]

IMO, there is no way to hide such kind of crash in today's world when even maids having a cell phone. I am sure there was no SU or F16 Kill. Only Mig 21 has been shot by the Pakistani F16.

Two scenarios of that AIM which was presented by the Tri-Chiefs.

1. Could be possible the same F16 who have shot down the Mig actually fired multiple AIMs towards the target. One was successfully stuck in the Mig *** and the second one was actually blank (unable to find the target) and later hit the ground because the chasing target was down by the other AIM

2. It can be possible that the other F16 in the formation fired the AIM towards Su30 but the aircraft successfully dodged (vanish from the target range of the AIM) or maybe flares did the job to deviate the locker.

 

[Talon]

IMO, there is no way to hide such kind of crash in today's world when even maids having cell phones.... I must say there was no SU30 or F16 shot down... only Mig 21 was shot down by the Pakistani F16.

Two scenarios of that AIM which was presented by Tri-Chiefs.

1. Maybe the same F16 who have shot down the Mig actually fired multiple AIMs. One was successfully stuck in the mig *** and another one was actually hit the ground because the chasing target was already down by the 1st AIM

2. Maybe some other F16 fired the AIM to kill Su30 or maybe mirage but the aircraft successfully vanish from the target range of AIM or maybe flares did the job.

Su30 kill may not be confirmed (for public) but hit is for sure confirmed.And even if its just a hit and somehow Su30 managed to land,PAF would still count it a kill and make monument... after all its
an Su-30 we are talking about.

Also you cannot dodge an Aim 120 via flares because it has radar lock and not heat seaker.

Only common way is to get of the missile's range or keep changing impact point (via changing your heading/course) to exhaust the missile.

 

[Arsalan 345]

there were videos of two aircraft burning in maqbooza kashmir that day. but some PDFers claimed them both to be the chopper burning site despite the fact that landscapes were different, fireballs were diferrent, aircraft shapes were different, tvmen were different as were the onlookers they were talking to

yes there were two fireballs.you are right.

 

[Mighty Lion]

Su30 kill may not be confirmed (for public) but hit is for sure confirmed.And even if its just a hit and somehow Su30 managed to land,PAF would still count it a kill and make monument... after all its
an Su-30 we are talking about.

Also you cannot dodge an Aim 120 via flares because it has radar lock and not heat seaker.

Only common way is to get of the missile's range or keep changing impact point (via changing your heading/course) to exhaust the missile.

There not even a graze let alone a hit.
Both Sukhois simply turned 180 degress thus turning the engagement into a tail chase one (AMRAAM has no chance in a tail chase against a target 60km away).
Plus they also deployed a massive amount of chaff.

 

[Talon]

There not even a graze let alone a hit.
Both Sukhois simply turned 180 degress thus turning the engagement into a tail chase one (AMRAAM has no chance in a tail chase against a target 60km away).
Plus they also deployed a massive amount of chaff.

Were you in the backseat of Su30 or were piloting it?

Chaff is effective to confuse the radar before the lock is maintained,after you have been locked its not very effective especially not against the most deadly missile in the region i.e Aim 120C.

Putting an Aim 120C or any missile for that matter at ur tail is the most stupid thing to do.Most effective way is to...well I won't say it here and no need to say, after all you were sitting in one of the SUs.

Both Sukhois simply turned 180 degress...and that's what got one of them killed.

If simply turning 180 was this easy...!!!

Btw it was a decoy chaff that got your Abhinandan killed.Dude thought he had an F-16 in his claws hence his famous statement "me apna target dhond rha tha".

 

[StormBreaker]

Were you in the backseat of Su30 or were piloting it?

Chaff is effective to confuse the radar before the lock is maintained,after you have been locked its not very effective especially not against the most deadly missile in the region i.e Aim 120C.

Putting an Aim 120C or any missile for that matter is the most stupid thing to do.Most effective way is to...well I won't say it here and no need to say, after all you were sitting in one of the SUs.

Both Sukhois simply turned 180 degress...and that's what got one of them killed.

If simply turning 180 was this easy...!!!

Turning 180 exposes direct engine heat to IF seeking AAMs right and thus increases hit chance probability by several folds ?

 

[Talon]

Turning 180 exposes direct engine heat to IF seeking AAMs right and thus increases hit chance probability by several folds ?

No that would be a case with IR/Heat seaker missile such as aim 9.Aim 120 is radar guided and after certain parameters it activates its own radar and it then becomes very difficult to dodge it hence famous as "Fire and Forget".

 

[StormBreaker]

No that would be a case with IR/Heat seaker missile such as aim 9.Aim 120 is radar guided and after certain parameters it activates its own radar and it then becomes very difficult to dodge it hence famous as "Fire and Forget".

And dual seeker uses radar guidance as well as heet seeking ?

 

[Talon]

And dual seeker uses radar guidance as well as heet seeking ?

Yep

 

[TheTallGuy]

There not even a graze let alone a hit.
Both Sukhois simply turned 180 degress thus turning the engagement into a tail chase one (AMRAAM has no chance in a tail chase against a target 60km away).
Plus they also deployed a massive amount of chaff.

That is a way saying "Flow Cold"and Flowing cold does not saves the aircraft in engagement you are talking about. let me give you a hint "Notching" or "Beaming" does that...against active radar weapons but this depends on pilot or pilots situation awareness.

I would request you for sake of constructive discussion describe the engagement on in yo u prospective.

 

[Mighty Lion]

Were you in the backseat of Su30 or were piloting it?

No, that is far Below my pay grade.

Chaff is effective to confuse the radar before the lock is maintained,

Exactly and this what prevented PAF from firing further missiles at Su-30s and Mirages.

Putting an Aim 120C or any missile for that matter at ur tail is the most stupid thing to do.Most effective way is to...well I won't say it here and no need to say, after all you were sitting in one of the SUs.

Both Sukhois simply turned 180 degress...and that's what got one of them killed.

Wrong again.
When your at a distance of more than 2 times the NEZ of the missile most effective tactic is to put it at your tail.
You are confusing within NEZ tactics with outside NEZ tactics

Both Sukhois simply turned 180° and thats what got them saved.

If only it was that easy to kill an Su-30.

PAF simply wasted 1 or more AMRAAMs and made the Su-30 pilots heroes within IAF for remaining unharmed despite being outnumbered 6:1

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Su30 kill may not be confirmed (for public) but hit is for sure confirmed.And even if its just a hit and somehow Su30 managed to land,PAF would still count it a kill and make monument... after all its
an Su-30 we are talking about.

Also you cannot dodge an Aim 120 via flares because it has radar lock and not heat seaker.

Only common way is to get of the missile's range or keep changing impact point (via changing your heading/course) to exhaust the missile.

Is PAF 100% sure about the kill?

 

[Talon]

No, that is far Below my pay grade.

Exactly and this what prevented PAF from firing further missiles at Su-30s and Mirages.


Wrong again.
When your at a distance of more than 2 times the NEZ of the missile most effective tactic is to put it at your tail.
Yiy are confising within NEZ tactics with outside NEZ tactics

Both Sukhois simply turned 180° and thats what got them saved.

If only it was that easy to kill an Su-30

Okay let's not take the argument further and simply say They chickened out..

Is PAF 100% sure about the kill?

Idk but I'll say this if PAF had a habit of making false claims then they would have claimed heli kill as well.

 

[loanranger]

Idk but I'll say this if PAF had a habit of making false claims then they would have claimed heli kill as well.

Exactly and IAF would not have been even able to deny it. What would they have said no ISPR is lying it was our IAF who killed our own men
Yet "hum nay sirf apna shikar kabool kiya"
These are the uncomfortable realities that Indians fear and avoid.
Take 5 years but make a movie on op Swift Retort. Sherdil was a step in the right direction. Operation Swift Retort would be an instant hit. Box office stuff happened on Feb 27th.