IAF : Covering up Su-30 Loss?

[ziaulislam]

IMO, there is no way to hide such kind of crash in today's world when even maids having cell phones.... I must say there was no SU30 or F16 shot down... only Mig 21 was shot down by the Pakistani F16.

Two scenarios of that AIM which was presented by Tri-Chiefs.

1. Maybe the same F16 who have shot down the Mig actually fired multiple AIMs. One was successfully stuck in the mig *** and another one was actually hit the ground because the chasing target was already down by the 1st AIM

2. Maybe some other F16 fired the AIM to kill Su30 or maybe mirage but the aircraft successfully vanish from the target range of AIM or maybe flares did the job.

If it was remote area or a lack than yes ..it can be hidden
Reality is we will never know

No, that is far Below my pay grade.

Exactly and this what prevented PAF from firing further missiles at Su-30s and Mirages.


Wrong again.
When your at a distance of more than 2 times the NEZ of the missile most effective tactic is to put it at your tail.
You are confusing within NEZ tactics with outside NEZ tactics

Both Sukhois simply turned 180° and thats what got them saved.

If only it was that easy to kill an Su-30.

PAF simply wasted 1 or more AMRAAMs and made the Su-30 pilots heroes within IAF for remaining unharmed despite being outnumbered 6:1

Well, we would never know as su30 absolutely refused to come back.."we are outrange by PAF, We need meteor on our su30...nah you cant russia"

 

[HAIDER]

The Six Victims belonging to Indian Air Force, who lost their lives during Indo-Pak air combat on 27th February 2019. Unlike WC Abhinandan, they never get the chance to come infront of media and tell their real account. As per Indian sources, these six lost their life when India's Spyder SAM system shot their own Mi-17 helicopter down out of panic in a friendly fire incident.

Interestingly, out of these six victims, only Sqn Ldrs Siddharth Vashisht & Ninad Mandavgane (shown in above two larger Pic sections) will receive Vayu Sena Medal on this Republic Day of India. Rest four will receive mention in dispatches only; a biased behavior indeed.

Now it raises certain doubts,

1: Why TWO Squadron Leaders were flying a helicopter? In general two Sq Ldrs are not assigned at the same time for flying a helicopter.

2: Why only Sq Ldrs are receiving Gallantry awards, not rest? Why they both are special? Is it sign of professional biasness? Or something else?

3: Why Six personal were onboard a helicopter which was on search & rescue duty? A duty which in general is undertaken by four men?

4: Are the pilots of downed Su-30 MKI among them? After all the easiest way to coverup loss of life is to include them in helicopter losses.



Pic source: #LiveFist

CREDITS: AoP

View attachment 601612

Disclaimer : I just shared the information posted on Facebook.I am not the author of the post and do not believe all points to be true.Its just for discussion.

I think there was purpose of shotdown the helicopter. Before truth reach to media, they shotdown the helicopter.

 

[Rank]

Su30 kill may not be confirmed (for public) but hit is for sure confirmed.And even if its just a hit and somehow Su30 managed to land,PAF would still count it a kill and make monument... after all its
an Su-30 we are talking about.

Also you cannot dodge an Aim 120 via flares because it has radar lock and not heat seaker.

Only common way is to get of the missile's range or keep changing impact point (via changing your heading/course) to exhaust the missile.

That's what I am saying though you can deviate missiles through flares or by changing positions again as I said, the target was beyond or vanish from its range....

 

[The Accountant]

Yawn.
Why not 20?

Fact is it has been nearly an year since the incident and PAF has absolutely and totally failed in producing in even a teeny tiny shred of evidence to support it's Su-30 claim. Entirely Nil.


Nope.
News channels started reporting from 11:25 AM the total no of deceased

The biggest evidence was provided by IAF themselves. An exploded AMRAAM.

Actually they were not told to turn on IFF as IAF was still following peacetime procedures

That was a grave mistake from indian chain if command that they didnt took basic precautions despite having advantage of surprise being the first attackers. They knew we r coming still so lazy plan.

IAF: F-16 used
DG: No
PDF: No

IAF: AMRAAM USED
DG: NO
PDF: NO

IAF: AMRAAM used... here is the PROOF...
DG: No
PDF: Vietnamese AMRAAM
ENTIRE PAKISTAN: JF-17, JF-17, JF-17n...

Now, my question is when no F-16 was used... No AMRAAM was fired... how is it possible to shoot down a MKI... by using AMRAAM...

someone is TRYING TO LIE... BADLY... and facts are contradicting their THEORIES...

Where did DG said there were no AMRAAMs ? For attack they used thunders and mirrages. F16s were on backup and not even for escort

 

[airomerix]

I think there was purpose of shotdown the helicopter. Before truth reach to media, they shotdown the helicopter.

This theory is very much valid and much debated in inner circles.

The heli may been shot down to add the two dead from Flanker in the crew of this Heli.

Than again too many shames in one day for IAF.

 

[aliyusuf]

The thing that makes the PAF's narrative more credible is the complete lack of real combat response from the IAF to date. If I am, say, a better chess player than my opponent and then I lose a game to him due to a silly mistake ... I would be eager to restore my ascendancy and have a re-match ASAP. But no such attempt to engage the PAF by the IAF. It's been almost 1 year now. Nothing. Then add to that Modi's wistful statement "Agar Rafale hota tou ... ".

This is reflective of the fact that the IAF is not willing to take on the PAF in a limited conflict scenario. Which means that the IAF does not have the capability nor the capacity to do a punitive action against Pakistan ... the very real possibility of things turning severely wrong for them is very high.

That is why they are clinging to the F-16 shoot down topi drama. Because only that helps them from having to give a reason for their subsequent in-action or else admit the real facts.

 

[kursed]

Pulwama incident did not involve any cross-border attack. And what political aims? As per your own CDS and Army Chief, they are still lamenting about 'Pakistan Army trying to launch terrorists' inside India. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You guys are trying to play at both sides of the table, and pretty much everyone can see it, hence not many takers for this argument any more.

In either case, the entire idea was to use Pulwama incident, to win the elections for Modi. What was grossly misread by Indian mil and political establishment, that an aerial incursion into Pakistan proper would be treated the same way as meagre LOC skirmishes that gets Indian Army's Bollywood-esque treatment of 'surgical strikes'.

There was no way, this was to be allowed to be set as a precedent. The only thing that's now been established is that any attempt to launch stand-off weapons into Pakistan, will be responded to in kind and disproportionately. This is not just another localized fire mission on LOC, that Pakistan would laugh off, while India calls it 'Surgical Strike XYZ'.

IOK, was already annexed 70 years ago, Pakistan was not going to do anything about Article 370 besides what it's doing right now. For the same reasons, India can only dream about ever setting foot in AJK. Pakistan has its own economical weaknesses to blame, which does not let it get as much noise out on it, as there should be. But all of that can change over time.

I am not sure what sort of propaganda do they feed you guys over there, but the very existence of Pakistan Armed Forces is not tied with winning over Kashmir. You lot are still living in the 90s, that era is long-over. It's a different generation, different people, different mindsets - and having fought for last 15 years, an entirely different set of mechanisms at play.

P.S.

I quite literally thought that it was only in movies that Pakistan Army / Air Force are shown as unprofessional nincompoops, with big beards who are only standing as props to be taken down by the Indian Armed Forces. Apparently you guys are quite good at drinking your own koolaid. And it's not just the fanboys on forums, but the garden variety of natsec crowd and security analysts, with Indian backgrounds are all brought up on this drip feed of underestimating the enemy. Which to be honest, is actually a very pleasant surprise. I really do hope that Bollywood keeps bringing all of you up on this caricature version of non-professional Pakistanis, for it'd only help Pakistan when the real thing happens.

 

[Rafael]

The question you should be really asking is how many cross border militant attacks happened after Balakot strikes. India has achieved its political aims. Balakot strikes on Pak proper is the game changer in Feb2019.

India annexed Kashmir on Aug5. What is the response of Pak armed forces? Here you should seriously question the very purpose of existence of Pak armed forces.

The question YOU should be asking is that why is Modi making Indian armed forces a political tool to win elections and more importantly, why is IA and IAF playing along?

 

[aliyusuf]

The question you should be really asking is how many cross border militant attacks happened after Balakot strikes. India has achieved its political aims. Balakot strikes on Pak proper is the game changer in Feb2019.

Seriously is that the best you could do?

There were none before (for almost a decade) and surely there have been none since.

Because at most of the geographically passable crossings over the LOC have been fenced and is guarded from the Indian side since almost a decade. It is heavily patrolled and cordoned off from the Indian side.

Even there is a Modi video that was making rounds in social media in those days after the Pulwama drama ... in which Modi (several years ago) was lambasting the incumbent Congress govt for putting blame on "ghus baithiye" when all these above mentioned measures had already been taken. Modi is on record saying it is the local Kashmiri who were doing this and they need to be taught a lesson and the Congress leadership was inept.

Shame on your feeble and dishonest attempt to twist the facts give lame excuses.

 

[untitled]

I think there was purpose of shotdown the helicopter. Before truth reach to media, they shotdown the helicopter.

This theory is very much valid and much debated in inner circles.

The heli may been shot down to add the two dead from Flanker in the crew of this Heli.

If this is indeed the case then we can definitely tell where the Indians got the idea of Pakistani villagers lynching a "F16" pilot. All they had to was look at their own dirty work and spin the story to accuse Pakistan.

 

[HAIDER]

If this is indeed the case then we can definitely say where the Indians got the idea of Pakistani villagers lynching a "F16" pilot. All they had to was look at their own dirty work and spin the story to accuse Pakistan.

Something went wrong between the lines. US satellite and Pak EA system caught some sudden disappearing lines on radar. And Indian are hiding something very big. Shooting down helicopter with AF crew make no sense.

 

[Ghost 125]

The question you should be really asking is how many cross border militant attacks happened after Balakot strikes. India has achieved its political aims. Balakot strikes on Pak proper is the game changer in Feb2019.

India annexed Kashmir on Aug5. What is the response of Pak armed forces? Here you should seriously question the very purpose of existence of Pak armed forces.

offcourse an indian will tell us to ask the very purpose of existence of Pak armed forces on PDF lol.
i would ask u difrnt question,,,wts ur purpose of existence on PDF

 

[Mace]

Pulwama incident did not involve any cross-border attack. And what political aims? As per your own CDS and Army Chief, they are still lamenting about 'Pakistan Army trying to launch terrorists' inside India. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You guys are trying to play at both sides of the table, and pretty much everyone can see it, hence not many takers for this argument any more.

In either case, the entire idea was to use Pulwama incident, to win the elections for Modi. What was grossly misread by Indian mil and political establishment, that an aerial incursion into Pakistan proper would be treated the same way as meagre LOC skirmishes that gets Indian Army's Bollywood-esque treatment of 'surgical strikes'.

There was no way, this was to be allowed to be set as a precedent. The only thing that's now been established is that any attempt to launch stand-off weapons into Pakistan, will be responded to in kind and disproportionately. This is not just another localized fire mission on LOC, that Pakistan would laugh off, while India calls it 'Surgical Strike XYZ'.

IOK, was already annexed 70 years ago, Pakistan was not going to do anything about Article 370 besides what it's doing right now. For the same reasons, India can only dream about ever setting foot in AJK. Pakistan has its own economical weaknesses to blame, which does not let it get as much noise out on it, as there should be. But all of that can change over time.

I am not sure what sort of propaganda do they feed you guys over there, but the very existence of Pakistan Armed Forces is not tied with winning over Kashmir. You lot are still living in the 90s, that era is long-over. It's a different generation, different people, different mindsets - and having fought for last 15 years, an entirely different set of mechanisms at play.

P.S.

I quite literally thought that it was only in movies that Pakistan Army / Air Force are shown as unprofessional nincompoops, with big beards who are only standing as props to be taken down by the Indian Armed Forces. Apparently you guys are quite good at drinking your own koolaid. And it's not just the fanboys on forums, but the garden variety of natsec crowd and security analysts, with Indian backgrounds are all brought up on this drip feed of underestimating the enemy. Which to be honest, is actually a very pleasant surprise. I really do hope that Bollywood keeps bringing all of you up on this caricature version of non-professional Pakistanis, for it'd only help Pakistan when the real thing happens.

Pulwama incident did not involve any cross-border attack. And what political aims? As per your own CDS and Army Chief, they are still lamenting about 'Pakistan Army trying to launch terrorists' inside India. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. You guys are trying to play at both sides of the table, and pretty much everyone can see it, hence not many takers for this argument any more.

In either case, the entire idea was to use Pulwama incident, to win the elections for Modi. What was grossly misread by Indian mil and political establishment, that an aerial incursion into Pakistan proper would be treated the same way as meagre LOC skirmishes that gets Indian Army's Bollywood-esque treatment of 'surgical strikes'.

There was no way, this was to be allowed to be set as a precedent. The only thing that's now been established is that any attempt to launch stand-off weapons into Pakistan, will be responded to in kind and disproportionately. This is not just another localized fire mission on LOC, that Pakistan would laugh off, while India calls it 'Surgical Strike XYZ'.

IOK, was already annexed 70 years ago, Pakistan was not going to do anything about Article 370 besides what it's doing right now. For the same reasons, India can only dream about ever setting foot in AJK. Pakistan has its own economical weaknesses to blame, which does not let it get as much noise out on it, as there should be. But all of that can change over time.

I am not sure what sort of propaganda do they feed you guys over there, but the very existence of Pakistan Armed Forces is not tied with winning over Kashmir. You lot are still living in the 90s, that era is long-over. It's a different generation, different people, different mindsets - and having fought for last 15 years, an entirely different set of mechanisms at play.

P.S.

I quite literally thought that it was only in movies that Pakistan Army / Air Force are shown as unprofessional nincompoops, with big beards who are only standing as props to be taken down by the Indian Armed Forces. Apparently you guys are quite good at drinking your own koolaid. And it's not just the fanboys on forums, but the garden variety of natsec crowd and security analysts, with Indian backgrounds are all brought up on this drip feed of underestimating the enemy. Which to be honest, is actually a very pleasant surprise. I really do hope that Bollywood keeps bringing all of you up on this caricature version of non-professional Pakistanis, for it'd only help Pakistan when the real thing happens.

Dude, before feb26 Pak got away with lots of stuff on militancy front using nuclear escalation bogey to tie up India at LOC/border. Twice India brought its army to border and went back disappointed. 26Feb changed all that.

No other time had any nuclear power aerial directly bombed another nuclear power. Pak’s nuke bluff effectively call that day.

Pulwama was a gift to Modi. Without Pulwama Modi would not have got such a massive majority. Aug5 could not have happened without this massive majority. So thanks to JeM for that.

Off course 27Feb is disappointing for India. IAF losing an aircraft was not something that can’t happen in a skirmish but IAF not exacting a cost to PAF is. Why they were so unprepared knowing very well Pak will retaliate is a mystery.

Yes India annexed Kashmir on Aug5 and not before. 370 meant Kashmir had its own constitution and flag. Not anymore.

Pak army not upping the ante after Aug5 is cowardly but sensible at the end. Economically weak Pak entering into full conflict with India risked balkanisation of Pak.

Seriously is that the best you could do?

There were none before (for almost a decade) and surely there have been none since.

Because at most of the geographically passable crossings over the LOC have been fenced and is guarded from the Indian side since almost a decade. It is heavily patrolled and cordoned off from the Indian side.

Even there is a Modi video that was making rounds in social media in those days after the Pulwama drama ... in which Modi (several years ago) was lambasting the incumbent Congress govt for putting blame on "ghus baithiye" when all these above mentioned measures had already been taken. Modi is on record saying it is the local Kashmiri who were doing this and they need to be taught a lesson and the Congress leadership was inept.

Shame on your feeble and dishonest attempt to twist the facts give lame excuses.

Let’s not behave like gullible kids. Both India and Pak are using proxies to weaken each other.

 

[aliyusuf]

Let’s not behave like gullible kids.

Better heed to your own advice kiddo. Also stop living in the pathetic bubble of the jingoistic nationalistic propaganda that most of you Modi Bhakts seem to be doing.

 

[Ghost 125]

Dude, before feb26 Pak got away with lots of stuff on militancy front using nuclear escalation bogey to tie up India at LOC/border. Twice India brought its army to border and went back disappointed. 26Feb changed all that.

No other time had any nuclear power aerial directly bombed another nuclear power. Pak’s nuke bluff effectively call that day.

Pulwama was a gift to Modi. Without Pulwama Modi would not have got such a massive majority. Aug5 could not have happened without this massive majority. So thanks to JeM for that.

Off course 27Feb is disappointing for India. IAF losing an aircraft was not something that can’t happen in a skirmish but IAF not exacting a cost to PAF is. Why they were so unprepared knowing very well Pak will retaliate is a mystery.

Yes India annexed Kashmir on Aug5 and not before. 370 meant Kashmir had its own constitution and flag. Not anymore.

Pak army not upping the ante after Aug5 is cowardly but sensible at the end. Economically weak Pak entering into full conflict with India risked balkanisation of Pak.



Let’s not behave like gullible kids. Both India and Pak are using proxies to weaken each other.

ohhh actually the very next day another nuclear power bombed the territory controlled by that supa pawa nuclear power. We call it op swift retort. and u are a certified bakht if u belive that we should ve nuked u on 1 incursion...USSR didnt nuke USA after U2 incident. U dont know anything about Pak nuclar threshold neither does ur NSA nor your service chiefs. thats for us to decide.