'I was forced to hunt Jews'

[Indus Pakistan]

No offense but I've seen more liberal and open people in Pakistan than I have seen open and liberal British Pakistanis

Yes, I would agree with you. However I have heard of more bombs go off in mosques in Pakistan than UK. I have heard of more sectarian killings in Pakistan than UK. I have heard more of presumed blasphemers being torn apart by mobs in Pakistan than UK. I have heard more of Mullah's openly preaching hate and peddling death in Pakistan than in UK etc

So sadly British Pakistani's are narrow mind bigots [on the whole ] which is a product of their Pakistani heritage than anything to do with UK much to the consternation of the locals. However as long as the law is upheld as is being amply being demonstrated in the case of Mrs Khan we will probably avoid going down the path Pakistan has gone..

 

[jbond197]

Are you Muslim?

Ok, point taken. Then can you as a Muslim give a better explanation?

 

[Dance]

Yes, I would agree with you. However I have heard of more bombs go off in mosques in Pakistan than UK. I have heard of more sectarian killings in Pakistan than UK. I have heard more of presumed blasphemers being torn apart by mobs in Pakistan than UK. I have heard more of Mullah's openly preaching hate and peddling death in Pakistan than in UK etc

So sadly British Pakistani's are narrow mind bigots [on the whole ] which is a product of their Pakistani heritage than anything to do with UK much to the consternation of the locals. However as long as the law is upheld as is being amply being demonstrated in the case of Mrs Khan we will probably avoid going down the path Pakistan has gone..

Yeah because theres no law and order in Pakistan. The UK is a developed country, Pakistan is not.

Comparison with Pakistan maybe unfair, but compare British Pakistanis to other Pakistani's living in America, the middle east, other parts of Europe. You'll see a big difference. So I don't really see how the actions of British Pakistanis are a product of their Pakistani heritage when the Pakistanis living in other countries are totally fine.

 

[KingMamba]

^^^Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves -48:29

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85)

Firstly , you may be right that Islam is indeed the religion of peace so I want to ask you what do these verses from the Koran mean ?

Please don't get me wrong , this is a genuine query .

First that is not the translation to even that full verse.

4.139
Those who take disbelievers as allies instead of the believers. Do they seek with them honor [through power]? But indeed, honor belongs to Allah entirely.
4.140
And it has already come down to you in the Book that when you hear the verses of Allah [recited], they are denied [by them] and ridiculed; so do not sit with them until they enter into another conversation. Indeed, you would then be like them. Indeed Allah will gather the hypocrites and disbelievers in Hell all together -
4.141
Those who wait [and watch] you. Then if you gain a victory from Allah , they say, "Were we not with you?" But if the disbelievers have a success, they say [to them], "Did we not gain the advantage over you, but we protected you from the believers?" Allah will judge between [all of] you on the Day of Resurrection, and never will Allah give the disbelievers over the believers a way [to overcome them].
4.142
Indeed, the hypocrites [think to] deceive Allah , but He is deceiving them. And when they stand for prayer, they stand lazily, showing [themselves to] the people and not remembering Allah except a little,

This is talking about the Muslims who sit with people who ridicule Islam and try to stray believers from the path. It talks about how they will be hypocritical as shown in the full verse. As for the part of victory it talks about the day of judgement and how they will not win when they are judged.

I am not an expert I tried to explain to the best of knowledge. May Allah forgive me if I have said anything that is not true. To be honest I am not even supposed to be answering questions like this because I am not the best in my knowledge however I am sure there are scholars in India who are which can explain the rest of the verses much clearly along with this one if I have error-ed. Most that you have listed have to be taken in context with the whole Surat read the verses surrounding the ones you highlights or if you are really interested buy a Quran and read it for yourself.

Ok, point taken. Then can you as a Muslim give a better explanation?

Did not mean to offend brother was just curious and I have tried at least for one concern to the best of my knowledge.

 

[regular]

'I was forced to hunt Jews', claims [Pakistani-British] terror trial wife

By Jonathan Kalmus, July 5, 2012
Follow The JC on Twitter

She was the victim of three unlucky marriages to a rapist, a serial adulterer and, most recently, a self-declared terrorist. That is how the woman accused of plotting to blow up Jews in Manchester with her husband began her first evidence in court this week.

The defence opened on day 10 of the terror trial at Manchester Crown Court, which alleges that Shasta Khan, 38, from Oldham, used her hairdressing business as a front to make bombs and seek Jewish targets as part of a personal jihad.

Mrs Khan had sat expressionless through days of prosecution evidence. But giving evidence on Tuesday, the she looked nervous, handcuffed twice and accompanied by two prison officers to the witness box.

She told how, as a teenager, she had been sent to Pakistan by her family in a forced marriage after her younger sister was caught with a boyfriend. Her marriage ended after repeated rapes, she said. A second marriage had ended when her new husband left her after he had four affairs, leading her into depressions and strained relationships, the court heard.

Mrs Khan told how her depression was relieved by a return to faith, including Muslim prayer five times a day.

It was a return to faith that assisted finding her latest husband in 2010, Mohammed Sajid Khan, who has pleaded guilty to preparing acts of terrorism and to three counts of owning prohibited terrorist material. Mrs Khan denies the same charges.

But this marriage, in which the couple changed their dress from Western to tradition Muslim garb and head coverings, turned sour the morning after their wedding day, Mrs Khan claimed.

“He would call me all sorts of names, dumb *****, slag, prostitute…He would threaten me, punch his hands together and say this is what I will do to you,” she said. Mrs Khan also claimed he forced her to do sexual acts.

On Tuesday morning during the presentation of evidence by the prosecution, tapes were played of Mrs Khan’s police interrogation. She had been asked why her SatNav had Jewish roads, the Jewish Agency and a house labelled “HQ” set as favourite locations.

She answered: “I don’t know” and “I don’t remember.”

When officers quizzed her about the dozens of extremist DVDs and CDs on jihad and terrorism, including chemical weapons, found in her car and bedroom, she was heard to say: “It was a mistake. I asked my husband to copy them for me.”

On Wednesday, Mrs Khan claimed she had been violently forced by her husband to make car journeys around Prestwich and Jewish areas. “On the first trip to Manchester, he grabbed my head and smashed it on the dashboard. I was too scared to say anything.”
The case continues.

I guess Mrs Khan and her husband both working for the MI6....cuz the evidence of the material found with them clearly shows that the secret hand behind this terrorist game is the dear british terrorist agency MI6........Nice try to malign Muslims and Islam for terrorism........

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Can any muslim friend here please answer my post no. 4 ?

These are questions that many non-muslims seek from muslims but they always go unanswered .

This is the English translation and unless your English is insufficient I think the meaning is obvious although I would temper the meaning by suggesting you take the context into account. However even when that is taken into account the meaning is dramatic and vivid.

That said such pearls are also found in Christian Bible and the Jewish Torah - For example the stoning to death for adultery. So don't please single out Islam, it is just one of the three Abrahamic religions, Christianity and Judaism that share the same common root.

@JBond
please don't masturbate yourself with the 'Islam was propogated by the sword. In most of what is Pakistan the natives converted thanks to the Sufi preachers - Many of their tombs still being regarded as holy today in Pakistan.

Of course military conquest helped the process but then again ever wondered why most of Africa is Christian? Ever heard the saying " they came with the sword in one hand and cross in another"? This quote of a Black African about European conquerors.

Why is South America Christian today? Rule of sword? Invade, convert , kill and colonize. Ditto for Aborgines of Australia, Filipinos, Papua New Guinea.

 

[KingMamba]

^^^Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves -48:29

And never will Allah grant to the unbelievers a way to triumph over believers [Pickthall – “any way of success”] (4:141)

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (9:29 Jizya is the money that non-Muslims must pay to their Muslim overlords in a pure Islamic state.)

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers (3:85)

Firstly , you may be right that Islam is indeed the religion of peace so I want to ask you what do these verses from the Koran mean ?

Please don't get me wrong , this is a genuine query .

Next verse
98.7
Indeed, they who have believed and done righteous deeds - those are the best of creatures.

I don't see what the problem here is this is common heaven-hell concept that all Abraham faiths believe in. Although I can see how the word creature can be offending if one would only read the verse you put without reading the next verse.

 

[jbond197]

@JBond
please don't masturbate yourself with the 'Islam was propogated by the sword. In most of what is Pakistan the natives converted thanks to the Sufi preachers - Many of their tombs still being regarded as holy today in Pakistan.

Stop teaching Pakistani history here because people of the land know the reality.. Even to this day Hindus are kidnapped in Pakistan for conversion so you better get real and don't tell us all to believe in your BS..

Hindus were murdered in massess by Sufis and Sikh gurus were killed by Sufis.. right?? Taxilla and Nalanda universities were destroyed by Sufis..

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I guess Mrs Khan and her husband both working for the MI6....cuz the evidence of the material found with them clearly shows that the secret hand behind this terrorist game is the dear british terrorist agency MI6........Nice try to malign Muslims and Islam for terrorism........

No who told you that? I read in the Sun Newspaper that the "secret hand" was apparently a intelligence agency from planet Mars.

And the "the secret hand" can't be that secret if they [M16] left behind evidence so idiots like me and you would even get to know of the "secret"?

***
It just occured to me now that what your saying is Her Majesties Intelligence Service [M16] were behind this puppet Mrs Khan and then Her Majesties Police Force investigated and found this evidence. Then Her Majesties Courts allowed this information to be made public when they could have easily put a gagging order under 'Official Secrets Act'.

Looks like Her Majesties own government is tearing it's own balls apart .................. Bizzare !!!

 

[KingMamba]

This is the English translation and unless your English is insufficient I think the meaning is obvious although I would temper the meaning by suggesting you take the context into account. However even when that is taken into account the meaning is dramatic and vivid.

That said such pearls are also found in Christian Bible and the Jewish Torah - For example the stoning to death for adultery. So don't please single out Islam, it is just one of the three Abrahamic religions, Christianity and Judaism that share the same common root.

@JBond
please don't masturbate yourself with the 'Islam was propogated by the sword. In most of what is Pakistan the natives converted thanks to the Sufi preachers - Many of their tombs still being regarded as holy today in Pakistan.

Of course military conquest helped the process but then again ever wondered why most of Africa is Christian? Ever heard the saying " they came with the sword in one hand and cross in another"? This quote of a Black African about European conquerors.

Why is South America Christian today? Rule of sword? Invade, convert , kill and colonize. Ditto for Aborgines of Australia, Filipinos, Papua New Guinea.

I agree with most of your points. Yes we conquered militarily like most societies did at the time however we converted peacefully. I know this because my family were those who came to the subcontinent for that purpose.

Muhammad Channan Shah Nuri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My great x4 grandfather.

 

[jbond197]

I agree with most of your points. Yes we conquered militarily like most societies did at the time however we converted peacefully. I know this because my family were those who came to the subcontinent for that purpose.

Muhammad Channan Shah Nuri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My great x4 grandfather.

Funny thing is most Pakistanis claim themselves to be of the families of Sufis.. Sufis did convert people but were not the force. Force were the invaders who were hell bent of converting people. Can't blame you because that sufi conversion thing is actually fed to you guys since birth..

Btw, the very same ideology unfortunately still exists to this date and you can see examples of it in daily life in Pakistan.. You can as usual deny the facts but the reality of things is not something that can be changed by some stories..

 

[KingMamba]

Funny thing is most Pakistanis claim themselves to be of the families of Sufis.. Sufis did convert people but were not the force. Force were the invaders who were hell bent of converting people. Can't blame you because that sufi conversion thing is actually fed to you guys since birth..

Btw, the very same ideology unfortunately still exists to this date and you can see examples of it in daily life in Pakistan..

Yeah I know many do I have come across people here in the states who claim to be from my family. LOL

My uncle Iftikharul Hasan Shah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My second cousin http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syed_Murtaza_Amin_Shah he is currently the orator of our order.

Yes I know today people over there are out of control or so I have heard, I'm visiting probably this winter I'll take pictures of my name with me next to my family tree in Alloh Mahar sharif. I have houses in sailkot and Lahore.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

^^^

Yes, Islam spread like many other religions [Christianity included] and without a doubt military conquest helps to spread the influence of the winning side because they get to influence society. We know Christianity followed the Christian sword in Africa, South America, North america, Australia, New Zealand and Philipines. We have a tiny Christian community in South Asia, do you think that the British conquest had a effect on this?

People may have heard of the Spanish Inquisition - That was a reverse process of deleting Islam [and Judaism]from the Iberian peninsula. So effective was it that by the end not a single Muslim was left in Spain.

@JBond Which history have you been reading? The one that says "The definitive History of the World" and stamped "Made in India"

**
It is interesting that the only Christian country in Asia is Philipines which was colonized by the Spanish. Today Filipino are Roman Catholics and so are Spanish Roman Catholics.

 

[KingMamba]

^^^

Yes, Islam spread like many other religions [Christianity included] and without a doubt military conquest helps to spread the influence of the winning side because they get to influence society. We know Christianity followed the Christian sword in Africa, South America, North america, Australia, New Zealand and Philipines. We have a tiny Christian community in South Asia, do you think that the British conquest had a effect on this?

People may have heard of the Spanish Inquisition - That was a reverse process of deleting Islam [and Judaism]from the Iberian peninsula. So effective was it that by the end not a single Muslim was left in Spain.

@JBond Which history have you been reading? The one that says "The definitive History of the World" and stamped "Made in India"

**
It is interesting that the only Christian country in Asia is Philipines which was colonized by the Spanish. Today Filipino are Roman Catholics and so are Spanish Roman Catholics.

True if the Muslims and Jews hadn't been wiped out during the inquisition all of South America would have been majority Muslim. I tell my friends this all the time when they argue with me on this topic. (They are Ecuadorian).

PS Jbond and Nick Indian none of you even bothered to react to two explanations I posted above I am offended. LOL

 

[jbond197]

Will Durant, the famous historian said about Islamic invasion:
"The Islamic conquest of India is probably the bloodiest story in history. It is a discouraging tale, for its evident moral is that civilization is a precious good, whose delicate complex of order and freedom, culture and peace, can at any moment be overthrown by barbarians invading from without or multiplying within."

Koenraad Elst , the german historian writes in "Negation in India"

The Muslim conquests, down to the 16th century, were for the Hindus a pure struggle of life and death. Entire cities were burnt down and the populations massacred, with hundreds of thousands killed in every campaign, and similar numbers deported as slaves. Every new invader made (often literally) his hills of Hindus skulls. Thus, the conquest of Afghanistan in the year 1000 was followed by the annihilation of the Hindu population; the region is still called the Hindu Kush, i.e. Hindu slaughter. The Bahmani sultans (1347-1480) in central India made it a rule to kill 100,000 captives in a single day, and many more on other occasions. The conquest of the Vijayanagar empire in 1564 left the capital plus large areas of Karnataka depopulated. And so on.