Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

[Understudy]

The scenario I had in mind is a conflict on the Chinese, Indian border. but a harsher aerial response. On the ground India has lost this conflict. China has 200k troops covered with artillery and armor, a habitat , good supplies while India at best has 50k troops. Half of them I.e. two new divisions have no training in the Theatre.

This is why in a conflict India lost 20 troops over 70 severely wounded and 10 + captured. India did not capture any opposing troops. This means Chinese have full control in this conflict. The Indians have surrendered all their territory to the 1959 Chinese claim line.

the same thing happened in the last info Chinese border dispute doklam after which 200k Chinese troops were deployed to the OT.


if things escalate which they will as the Indians will miscalculate the phased withdrawal with weakness. Typical China strategy of Luring the Indians in a wider conflict.

the Chinese have a much higher concentration of cruise and battlefield missiles which they will use to suppress the Indians. Their stockpiles of in the rarer munitions are clearly heavier as you see in most clips Chinese coming into the ot on vehicles while Indians walking across.

The other dominant the Chinese will use is cyber, disabling Indian electric grids, rail networks and heavy jamming of Indian communications. This was evident in the Abhinandhan episode where a lack of communication caused significant losses to the Indians.
Imagine this 100 times more, imagine using American/ French munitions without gps. Troops on the ground having no idea about what’s going on and the orders they have.

This will get progressively bad for the Indians as they are sooooo obsessed with Pakistan that they have lost the strategic edge.

If the Indians had any sense they would stop, talk and solve the disputes with Pakistan, solve sir creek, leave sai chin and put kashmir on a back burner for 50 years and withdraw troops. This will free up economic power for both countries. But alas India is too stuck on being the chokkidar run by a chai Wala. For things to come please listen to the video below

the Chinese have 80 % larger GDP and don’t even consider People of the sub content human.

KV

Your post covers multiple areas & points, however I will limit the reply to the topic of the thread.
If there is an aerial escalation, it will have to be from Indian side. For China, it could respond to Indian incursions by Ground to Air or BVR missiles. Any attack on Indian soil would be preferred by missiles rather than air assets. Chinese like to control the narrative, a Chinese pilot in Indian soil is unacceptable outcome for them in my opinion.
[Edited for grammar]

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

India ja ja Kashmir se nikal ja??

If India Leaves Kashmir , and just surrenders it would be a victory in loss because India will retain remainder of country

There is no point to fight China and Pakistan , just vacate Kashmir and may be things will resolve

China Takes Ladakh, Pakistan Takes Kashmir (Which technically belongs to Pakistan)
Problem solved

Kashmir never belonged to India in first place , so if you remove this region from equation
China is Happy, Pakistan is Happy


If India simply leaves the whole Kashmir region (which never really belonged to them) then there will be no conflict and chance to lose more Indian Territory to China

This is my 2nd message to all members to make serious contributions in this particular thread, if you are able to. Otherwise expect action.

Let us discuss this in the manner it should be.

I don't understand what you're trying to say. No one seems to be doing anything wrong.

 

[LeGenD]

I don't understand what you're trying to say. No one seems to be doing anything wrong.

I have removed some posts. You cannot see them.

I am giving reminders because some members are not getting it.

Aadat say bajboor

Indian topics tend to degrade into trolling sessions really fast. And this is happening across the board.

Ensuring quality contributions is a collective responsibility of nationalities, not just one.

 

[Ahmet Pasha]

Anyway Indians also bring alliances with Americans, Asians and with Australians to the table as well.

China might have Iranian, Russian and European support but it may not be military with all the countries. Maybe some.

I have removed some posts. You cannot see them.

I am giving reminders because some members are not getting it.

Aadat say bajboor

Indian topics tend to degrade into trolling sessions really fast. And this is happening across the board.

Ensuring quality contributions is a collective responsibility of nationalities, not just one.

 

[truthseeker2010]

OP is dreaming. If deployed, the PLAAF will likely sortie in support of troops in contact, the terrain is not conducive to close air support for either side. Platforms with excellent terrain avoidance capability while flying nap of the earth will excel here, Jaguar, Mirage and Rafale on the Indian side - perhaps J-10's and JH-7's on the Chinese side?

If the PLAAF or IAF attempt interdiction they will be hammered hard by the opposition. Mainly because neither side can bring supporting assets into the theater. My prediction - stalemate in the air.

IAF airfields are close to LAC, which can be both advantage for IAF operation, disadvantage as an easy target for Missile or arty attack.
PLAAF fields are further inland but limited in numbers, but IAF won't be able to put substantial numbers of aircraft due to serviceability and pakistan factor, so PLAAF might have greater numbers. They have 800+ J-10 JH-7 my guess is around 200 max will be deployed to western theater, that is more than enough considering IAF has around 650 fighters out of which they will not be able to put more than 200 (all types) to LAC.

IMO both PLAAF and IAF would be cautious to not escalate to full scale war for obvious reasons, they will limit it to valley. So at max would be limited skirmish so as to maximize damage without breaking threshold.
IAF in A2A would be limited due to low numbers of spec mission aircraft. So IAF would try to avoid interdiction to PLAAF and will remain to CAS to IA. PLAAF will try to exploit this weakness of IAF

 

[LeGenD]

Anyway Indians also bring alliances with Americans, Asians and with Australians to the table as well.

China might have Iranian, Russian and European support but it may not be military with all the countries. Maybe some.

Bro,

Feel free to expand on this discussion in whatever way you wish to - a hypothetical scenario if you have one in mind.

Although bringing Alliances into this discussion will introduce too much complexity in the mix. Few have the temperament to keep with it then.

I would keep this to India vs. China in personal capacity. This is me.

 

[danger007]

Well on a Serious note

India's Northern Border is a 2,000-3840 km depending on who you talk to

• India can't possibly defend this large area unless they split up their airforce

Now the Indians are stuck in Knee deep in Srinagar pretty much 70% of their force
So who exactly will be defending the Eastern front ?



Credit @Spy Master (From 2015)
He did a awesome job with analysis
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iaf-paf-plaaf-comparison-by-indian-aerospace-blog.355196/

Now we all know this is not 2015
Pakistan have 150 JF17 Thunders


Now China must have also done something wise between 2015-2020 , if we added 100 Thunders


Indians must understand , it is better to leave Kashmir , and evacuate , rather then lose the whole country

Yes china have larger force.. but it can't concentrate them in Indian border.. they have much more complicated situation in SCS be it Japan, Asean or USA... any major war with India will serve no good to both countries... moreover it can lead into ww3... Unless Xi decided to go ahead .....in order to remain in power....

I agree with that.

India might be able to handle either Pakistan or China in isolation but [two] powerful military forces at the same time? Indian resources will be split across two fronts.

However, each is a nuclear-armed nation with a vast arsenal of ballistic missiles and such. Therefore; full-scale war between the TRIO can turn into a nightmare for all parties because India will be fighting for its survival in this case.

Perhaps Pakistan and China will risk limited intervention, like in J&K sector? Diversion tactics in other areas? Pakistan and China can make some gains on borders in this manner, and then force India to the negotiation table.

Well if war between trio means WW3... it won't be regional war anymore..

 

[Pakistani Fighter]

Chinese doesn't have enough airbases on Indian Side

 

[danger007]

Anyway Indians also bring alliances with Americans, Asians and with Australians to the table as well.

China might have Iranian, Russian and European support but it may not be military with all the countries. Maybe some.

European is unlikely.... close to impossible... Iran may stay neutral in this case....

 

[Joe Shearer]

Reference
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ys-pakistan/story-IWFSOHU4UrAoU06OllOzAK.html

• One Million Indian Troops in Kashmir

Reference
https://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/180819/forces-deploy-1-million-to-guard-kashmir-valley.html

• One million Indian Troops in Kashmir

Reference
https://www.dawn.com/news/1299621

• One million Indian Troops in Kashmir

View attachment 648754


It seems 80% Indian forces (active) are in Kashmir leaving rest of Northern front unguarded, of course then there is the reserve forces

Second and last remark on this point: please do not get befuddled by reading Indian media. Look up the order of battle for yourself, and ask someone who knows, a retired or active Army officer ideally, what a Corps with 3 divisions entails. Please also check the troops detailed to serve under the Eastern Command, the Southern Command, the Central Command and the Western Command. That does not leave much for Northern Command, and it leaves very, very little for the Vale of Kashmir, after noting that Northern Command has two other Corps besides XV Corps, that is, XIV, in Ladakh, and XVI, outside the Vale.

Please take the trouble of going through posts by a notably well-informed Pakistani member who has written in detail about the face-off between the Pakistan Army and the Indian Army in the mountains, in the plains and in the desert sector. That might help dispel some of the fog and mist that seems to have crept into perceptions of numbers involved, and locations.

If you write the kind of stuff you have written, please do not expect to be taken seriously, or to receive serious answers. You will only attract trolls. I hope that is not your intention.

 

[LeGenD]

@Novice09

Please drop the condescending tone. This thread is undergoing regulated discussion session. Address a post in polite way.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

@AZADPAKISTAN2009

Not in this thread. This thread warrant a serious discussion. This message is for other members as well.

Fighting a full-scale war for India is not a joke, mind you. Let us not delude ourselves.

And what do you think those joint Pakistani and Chinese armor drills in cholistan are for, a photo op?

The truth is China has accessibility to Indian main land, where as the bhartis do not. And this is what gives bharti command night terrors.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Kasam se... I can't believe Pakistanis... don't you feel that PA is capable enough to TEACH A LESSON to IA... on its own...

China ki tail ho kya...

Indian armed forces are ready to fight two front war... do China?

Pakistan to China and vice versa... PEHLE AAP, PEHLE AAP...

That is why I always say, don't fall for propaganda... adequate forces are placed at borders and IA is not in Kashmir in the numbers propagated...

This is our failing, as Indian members. We make general statements, that are easy to contradict, or to oppose with equal and opposite general statements.

Please give the member who posted that the Indian Army order of battle.

 

[LeGenD]

And what do you think those joint Pakistani and Chinese armor drills in cholistan for, a photo op?

The truth is China has accessibility to Indian main land, where as the bhartis do not. And this is what gives bharti command night terrors.

Noted.

Of-course, I do not think Indian army can hold against combined assault of Pakistan and China in the field. However , then the battle will take another turn and that is of semi-occupation which is a challenge in itself. Indian units will retreat and turn to guerrilla warfare tactics. Indian population is also massive, and will cause problems. Intrude too deep and Indians might press the nuclear trigger.

Therefore, the war must have a realistic objective - attainable.

 

[zhxy]

India could spend US $ 200 billion and ask the Russians to build 20 aircraft assembly lines in India. IAF can build more than 3,000 aircraft a year if it wants. Replacing falling planes is easy, and the biggest problem is pilot training.