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Hypothetical - Can IAF be wiped out in 10 hour or 12 hours by PLAAF?

The IAF has severe technical gaps in its capability as demonstrated on Feb-27 by the PAF.

the PLAAF will have significant numerical (3010+ Aircraft) and technological superiority (stealth aircraft and dedicated strategic bombers)in the Indian occupied Chinese territory according to Wikipedia

the Hamalyian mountain range will give significant cover to PLAAF not to mention the higher refueling and detection (AWACS platforms) and electronic warfare (ELINT) capability

will the IAF be completely wiped out in 10 or 12 hours like in the case of Iraq and America in the first gulf war?

is the force comparison not similar ?

I look forward to your response?

KV

source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Air_Force

10 hr assertion is impractical and laughable at most. It's not possible for either China or India to decimate each others AF in hours. There is always a limit to how many assets offensive/ defensive are in air at given time so It's next to impossible to achieve in air assuming most of the encounters will happen in northern sector.

As matter of fact both sides are capable of striking each others airfields deep in side territories. Both sides being big and professional forces , it's assumed that they have strategies/ plan in place to counter such attacks. At the best preemptive strikes may cause temp. pause on offensive but assuming it will destroy will be close to day dreaming.

It may be possible with simultaneous nuclear attack on all air fields ... but that will cripple whole Asia at best and whole world at the worst.

I'd recommend to change rule and title of discussion to
Will the IAF be wiped out in 10 days or 12 days ?
 
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In the current scenario, I doubt on any full scale war between India and China.

Both countries are having very small borders disputes and they will not gonna to take any risk.

About claims only China does claim around all her borders and in neighborhood countries.

I can assume that even if air to air war will happen then it will be limited only at the borders level due to our borders and geographical is very different ( thanks to Himalayas).

I don't find any one is having edge over each other. Depends on the day, planning, tactics and luck. But I don't see anyone will loose big number of aircraft's. It could be a small incident only.
 
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you mean India again is surrendering and acknowledging that they were attempting to trespass in Chinese territory and moving back

kv
chinese have gone back 2 km away from LAC .that is all .
india is nowhere near to china in military capacity but we can give tough time to them if they try to take any piece of land , it will be impossible for them to keep any land from buffer zone in their possession.
 
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Well on a Serious note

India's Northern Border is a 2,000-3840 km depending on who you talk to
  • India can't possibly defend this large area unless they split up their airforce

India_China-_Military_Comparison_0.jpg



Now the Indians are stuck in Knee deep in Srinagar pretty much 70% of their force
So who exactly will be defending the Eastern front ?



Credit @Spy Master (From 2015)
He did a awesome job with analysis
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/iaf-paf-plaaf-comparison-by-indian-aerospace-blog.355196/
Fihgter%2B.jpg





Now we all know this is not 2015
Pakistan have 150 JF17 Thunders o_O


Now China must have also done something wise between 2015-2020 , if we added 100 Thunders


Indians must understand , it is better to leave Kashmir , and evacuate , rather then lose the whole country
These are extremely outdated comparison figures ...
 
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Why not thread the needle and pick the average of this astounding analysis....i.e 11 hours!

Gonna steal a @PanzerKiel quote too: "c'mon man"

@Joe Shearer :D

Oh, man.

Just finished writing a narrative about a fiercely fought battle. About soldiers whose bunkers and trenches were overrun, and still fought back. About soldiers fighting them whose tanks were blown up, one after another, in front of them, and still fought back.

And you tag me for this ludicrous thread by some keyboard kiddy who had an empty twenty minutes to fill.

What did I do to you? Why are you making me read - what do I call it without getting kicked in the arse by @LeGenD - 'stuff' by @AZADPAKISTAN2009?

It's a rough transition, from trying to pore through a dozen books, to figure out which formation provided the tanks for their attack on the 8th, to a post that says

Now the Indians are stuck in Knee deep in Srinagar pretty much 70% of their force

What did I do to you,@Nilgiri, to deserve this?
_________________________________________________________________________________________
I am writing this out of respect for @LeGenD, and NOTHING MORE. That member whose posts have edified us for more than a decade, not the Moderator. Out of respect for my own time and limited time left to do these things, I will not answer frivolous idiots. Or frivolous idiocies.
_________________________________________________________________________________________

The facts:
  • How many soldiers and armed policemen in Kashmir has no bearing on a discussion, however wildly unlikely, on how many hours to total the Indian Air Force.
  • For the record, and for the sake of the mighty irritation that it caused me to see the crap being shovelled around, please consult widely available orders of battle available as open source information.
    • The Vale is handled by one (1) Army Corps, XV Corps.
    • It has less than 10% of the fighting strength of the Indian Army.
    • It also has, at any given time, units of the Rashtriya Rifles, who together consist of 50,000 soldiers, about three (3) divisions worth of soldiers, not attached to any of the regular divisions.
    • The Jammu region, lower down, has the strongest Corps of the Indian Army, XVI Corps.
    • Kargil is monitored by one (1) Division.
    • Siachen is monitored by one (1) Brigade.
    • That division at Kargil is part of another, separate Corps, XIV Corps, that has the task of guarding Kargil, guarding Siachen and guarding the Line of Actual Control.
    • XIV Corps has recently been reinforced. Troops have been moved in,
      • some from the RR units, who are regular soldiers on deputation from their formations to the RR, and who are not needed at this quiescent state of the Vale,
      • some others from units not responsible for either the LOC, the international border with Pakistan or the Line of Actual Control with the PRC in Ladakh, or the MacMahon Line;
      • Their numbers and particulars are not relevant to the discussion, even peripherally.
So much for that 70% metric.

@LeGenD
@dbc
@AgNoStiC MuSliM

Dear Gentlemen,

There are certain posts and certain members whom I shall never give oxygen; never give them the acknowledgement that they crave.

Questions have been raised about the fighting spirit of Indian aviators, and I submit my contribution to the discussion through these:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirmal_Jit_Singh_Sekhon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajjamada_B._Devaiah

These issues are the kinds of innuendo and petty insult that the ignorant peddle. The central issue is the outcome of a conflict between the PLA AF and the IAF, in a limited-scope conflict, and in an open and unlimited war, or even a war with two adversaries in the field. Those need detailed discussion, so it is better to separate them out and put them in a separate post. Please bear with me.
 
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If India Leaves Kashmir , and just surrenders it would be a victory in loss because India will retain remainder of country

There is no point to fight China and Pakistan , just vacate Kashmir and may be things will resolve

China Takes Ladakh, Pakistan Takes Kashmir (Which technically belongs to Pakistan)
Problem solved

Kashmir never belonged to India in first place , so if you remove this region from equation
China is Happy, Pakistan is Happy


If India simply leaves the whole Kashmir region (which never really belonged to them) then there will be no conflict and chance to lose more Indian Territory to China

Kasam se... I can't believe Pakistanis... don't you feel that PA is capable enough to TEACH A LESSON to IA... on its own...

China ki tail ho kya...

Indian armed forces are ready to fight two front war... do China?

Pakistan to China and vice versa... PEHLE AAP, PEHLE AAP...

Reference
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ys-pakistan/story-IWFSOHU4UrAoU06OllOzAK.html

  • One Million Indian Troops in Kashmir

Reference
https://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/180819/forces-deploy-1-million-to-guard-kashmir-valley.html

  • One million Indian Troops in Kashmir


Reference
https://www.dawn.com/news/1299621

  • One million Indian Troops in Kashmir


View attachment 648754


It seems 80% Indian forces (active) are in Kashmir leaving rest of Northern front unguarded, of course then there is the reserve forces

That is why I always say, don't fall for propaganda... adequate forces are placed at borders and IA is not in Kashmir in the numbers propagated...
 
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At least send the rafale plane over china's Ladak area just to take some new fresh images of Chines territory

Kuch karo ?

Defense Minister ko phone lagao aur order karo Rafale plane to go over Laddak
 
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Reference
https://www.hindustantimes.com/indi...ys-pakistan/story-IWFSOHU4UrAoU06OllOzAK.html

  • One Million Indian Troops in Kashmir

Reference
https://www.asianage.com/india/all-india/180819/forces-deploy-1-million-to-guard-kashmir-valley.html

  • One million Indian Troops in Kashmir


Reference
https://www.dawn.com/news/1299621

  • One million Indian Troops in Kashmir


View attachment 648754


It seems 80% Indian forces (active) are in Kashmir leaving rest of Northern front unguarded, of course then there is the reserve forces

ok we will put rest of the 20 percent in kashmir very soon.
 
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The IAF has severe technical gaps in its capability as demonstrated on Feb-27 by the PAF.

the PLAAF will have significant numerical (3010+ Aircraft) and technological superiority (stealth aircraft and dedicated strategic bombers)in the Indian occupied Chinese territory according to Wikipedia

the Hamalyian mountain range will give significant cover to PLAAF not to mention the higher refueling and detection (AWACS platforms) and electronic warfare (ELINT) capability

will the IAF be completely wiped out in 10 or 12 hours like in the case of Iraq and America in the first gulf war?

is the force comparison not similar ?

I look forward to your response?

KV

source https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Liberation_Army_Air_Force

In my opinion the premise of the question is incorrect.
Why would China want to wipe out IAF? They goal would be either to defeat IA in their theater or to gain land or both. Any of their goals does not require wiping out IAF.

If they do decide to fly over the mountains and attack the bases on plains they will have their big eyes and ears on other side of Himalayas, while IAF will have them in line of sight on plains. China is far too rational to commit to that.

Between India and China, I would assume Air Force will be a supporting component rather than main element of war goals. Battle will be mostly fought by territorial forces. Even Navy would be a surprise escalation.
 
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The scenario I had in mind is a conflict on the Chinese, Indian border. but a harsher aerial response. On the ground India has lost this conflict. China has 200k troops covered with artillery and armor, a habitat , good supplies while India at best has 50k troops. Half of them I.e. two new divisions have no training in the Theatre.

This is why in a conflict India lost 20 troops over 70 severely wounded and 10 + captured. India did not capture any opposing troops. This means Chinese have full control in this conflict. The Indians have surrendered all their territory to the 1959 Chinese claim line.

the same thing happened in the last info Chinese border dispute doklam after which 200k Chinese troops were deployed to the OT.


if things escalate which they will as the Indians will miscalculate the phased withdrawal with weakness. Typical China strategy of Luring the Indians in a wider conflict.

the Chinese have a much higher concentration of cruise and battlefield missiles which they will use to suppress the Indians. Their stockpiles of in the rarer munitions are clearly heavier as you see in most clips Chinese coming into the ot on vehicles while Indians walking across.

The other dominant the Chinese will use is cyber, disabling Indian electric grids, rail networks and heavy jamming of Indian communications. This was evident in the Abhinandhan episode where a lack of communication caused significant losses to the Indians.
Imagine this 100 times more, imagine using American/ French munitions without gps. Troops on the ground having no idea about what’s going on and the orders they have.

This will get progressively bad for the Indians as they are sooooo obsessed with Pakistan that they have lost the strategic edge.

If the Indians had any sense they would stop, talk and solve the disputes with Pakistan, solve sir creek, leave sai chin and put kashmir on a back burner for 50 years and withdraw troops. This will free up economic power for both countries. But alas India is too stuck on being the chokkidar run by a chai Wala. For things to come please listen to the video below


the Chinese have 80 % larger GDP and don’t even consider People of the sub content human.

KV
 
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Did I not warn members to stop posting useless remarks in this thread? Master this Master that?

Post useless remarks and I will show the culprit the ways of being a Master. Heed provided warnings.

Serious responses only.

@achhu

You are on my radar. Behave.
 
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In my opinion the premise of the question is incorrect.
Why would China want to wipe out IAF? They goal would be either to defeat IA in their theater or to gain land or both. Any of their goals does not require wiping out IAF.

If they do decide to fly over the mountains and attack the bases on plains they will have their big eyes and ears on other side of Himalayas, while IAF will have them in line of sight on plains. China is far too rational to commit to that.

Between India and China, I would assume Air Force will be a supporting component rather than main element of war goals. Battle will be mostly fought by territorial forces. Even Navy would be a surprise escalation.
that is a balanced analysis.
 
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