Hundreds of Muslim workers fired after dispute over prayers

[AtiF Malang]

This is a settled issue in US employment law. Hourly workers get 2 breaks and lunch during the day. The breaks are 15min, the lunch is 30min (minimum). Employers can stagger breaks to keep production running.

If you need more than that, you need to start your own business. Moving to a country and expecting all the laws to change to match your desires/culture is ridiculous. Expecting the US to change to match your Pakistani (or Somali) standards is a double standard - you are not willing (I would guess) to change Pakistan to match US standards, are you?

For me Stupids like trumps make less than 0.001% of America. Same like America have higher percentage of Educated Civilized and good people We majoraty of Pakistanis are not like the one potrayed by your Presstitute.
Try to come to Pakistan and you will that Goras ( white ) have alot of respect in Pakistan. How many Americans are killed are attacked on the basis of their nationality or religion in Pakistan?
If American press can make voice for Human,Woman, Animals, Kurds, Jews etc rights why not for Muslims?
What will happen if you give a break of 10 -15 mins for prayers?
If American also started acting like extremists and stupids people will stop dreaming about USA and will stop expecting from USA as the Somalia of Today and USA under Trump will be no different.
On one side you are making fun of Somalia because of extremism on the other hand you your self is advocating Extremism
Same you hate Hitler for his Racism towards the Jews but you like Trumps Racism
Did i said wrong about double standrds?

 

[Uzair Shafiq [Босс]]

nah.
depends on the level of your religious views.

Its whenever you have the time, could be once or twice a day is okay and not praying due to such reasons isn't a sin either.

Yeh banda theek to hai?
Bhai ap nay Quran parha hai?
5 wakt ki namaz farz hai har muslman par ._.
and due to such reasons kay bachay
sirf 2 namazay zuhr and asr come in or around work hours ._.
woh alg bat hai kay ap nahi partay but please don't misguide others
~It's necessary for all muslims to pray 5 times a day but they are forgiven if they can't pray due to such reasons(jobs) not FB and shit like that @TheNoob ~

 

[naveen mishra]

Employees are suppose to allow for smoke break of 15 min to workers every 3-4 hours.
Generally after 4 hours a break of 15 minutes is also due. Not to mention a break for lunch is also there

Seems like the manager of organization did not know how to MANAGE the break process

problem is not prayer....those who are following religiously i don't have issue with them....they come back to work place immediately after finish namaz....more problem with those who not not practising islam religiously , in the name of namaz they waste time and actually doesn't perform namaz

in indonesia we don't have any issue , kab ye namaz ada karke wapas kam pe lag jate hai pata hi nahi chalta, but had serious problem in bangladesh

 

[jamahir]

Why are you giving the wrong picture of USA? My brother works for federal and he is given the time to offer prayers.
The problem is, some people just want a reason to discriminate Muslims. Otherwise, 1st constitution gives the 'freedom of religion'.

and yet in @Zibago 's thread on the late and assassinated salman taseer, weren't you saying that mr. taseer did a mistake by talking against the blasphemy law in pakistan ( imposed on pakistan by that prime supporter of tableeghi jamaat, zia ul haq )??

 

[Zibago]

and yet in @Zibago 's thread on the late and assassinated salman taseer, weren't you saying that mr. taseer did a mistake by talking against the blasphemy law in pakistan ( imposed on pakistan by that prime supporter of tableeghi jamaat, zia ul haq )??

So you did see that thread

 

[jamahir]

Ever heard of Sunnah and Hadith, you don't have clue about Islam and here talking like a scholar.

did you read the rest of my post after those lines you highlighted??

this[1] is some of the progressiveism in pre-1947 india ( and rest of south asia )...

After studying traditional Muslim texts, as well as Sufism, Parvez claimed that almost all hadiths were fabrications by those who wanted Islam to seem like an intolerant faith and by ancient Muslim kings who used these hadiths to give divine legitimacy to their tyrannical rules.

Parvez also insisted that Muslims should spend more time studying the modern sciences instead of wasting their energies on fighting out ancient sectarian conflicts or ignoring the true egalitarian and enlightening spirit of the Qu’ran by indulging in multiple rituals handed down to them by ancient ulema, clerics and compilers of the hadith.

Understandably, Parvez was right away attacked by conservative Islamic scholars and political outfits.

But this didn’t stop famous Muslim philosopher and poet, Muhammad Iqbal, to befriend the young scholar and then introduce him to the future founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah.

Apart from continuing to author books and commentaries on the Qu’ran, Parvez wrote a series of articles in Talu-e-Islam that propagated a more socialistic view of the holy book.

In a series of essays for the magazine he used verses from the Qu’ran, incidents from the faith’s history and insights from the writings of Muhammad Iqbal to claim:

The clergy and conservative ulema have hijacked Islam.

They are agents of the rich people and promoters of uncontrolled Capitalism.

Socialism best enforces Qur’anic dictums on property, justice and distribution of wealth.

Islam’s main mission was the eradication of all injustices and cruelties from society. It was a socio-economic movement, and the Prophet was a leader seeking to put an end to the capitalist exploitation of the Quraysh merchants and the corrupt bureaucracy of Byzantium and Persia.

According to the Qur’an, Muslims have three main responsibilities: seeing, hearing and sensing through the agency of the mind. Consequently, real knowledge is based on empirically verifiable observation, or through the role of science.

Poverty is the punishment of God and deserved by those who ignore science.

In Muslim/Islamic societies, science, as well as agrarian reform should play leading roles in developing an industrialised economy.

A socialist path is a correction of the medieval distortion of Islam through Shari’a.

Parvez joined the government after the creation of Pakistan in 1947, but after Jinnah’s death in 1948, he was sidelined until he resigned from his post in 1956.

do read the rest of the article which also talks of muslim progressiveism/socialism in other lands.

edit : besides, why the need for muslims to have "islamic scholars"?? since when did islam have a brahmin class?? it is enough to understand islam through the words of true progressives such as those in the above article and those like muammar gaddafi.

So you did see that thread

yeah, wanted to comment yesterday but had a headache so didn't log in but just was reading posts.


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[1] Islamic Socialism: A history from left to right - Blogs - DAWN.COM

 

[Zibago]

Thos thread has too many cyber tablighis

 

[Moonlight]

and yet in @Zibago 's thread on the late and assassinated salman taseer, weren't you saying that mr. taseer did a mistake by talking against the blasphemy law in pakistan ( imposed on pakistan by that prime supporter of tableeghi jamaat, zia ul haq )??

How that relates to this thread?

 

[jamahir]

dedicated to you Sir,

"Verily, the hypocrites seek to deceive Allah, but it is He who deceives them; When they stand up for Salah, they stand with laziness, only to be seen by men; and they do not remember Allah but a little." (Surah Nisaa 4:142)

though i don't understand why you dedicated that verse to me i will say that lot of subcontinent muslims, especially the naya musalmaan type are not comfortable with true islam but they are really in a constant competition to be seen as more pious than their neighbor and their colleague and their "friend", whether this be in dressing or face hair modification or whispering prayer loudly in the mosque or be seen in the mosque constantly or the twice-per-five-years hajj ( this is especially so in india ).

 

[Zibago]

Namaz parhni hay was an excelent bahana to skip Islamyat class for evening shift students

Namaz to koi nahe parhtay thay 30 minutes tak gapain he martay thay

 

[jamahir]

How that relates to this thread?

i mentioned it because you speak of discrimination against muslims in usa... salman taseer spoke against the dictator-imposed "blasphemy" law in pakistan that was discriminatory against non-muslims and the progressive/anti-reactionary muslims, other than the simple fact that it is anti-human and non-islami.

also, if you have read one of my earlier posts on this thread mentioning a case in bangalore ( india ) similar to the one in the usa meat-packing plant, it was my intention to declare that just being fanatical and busy in prayers does not automatically make one a follower or defender of true islam... if that had been the case, every hardcore talibani should be declared true muslim and the pakistan army fighting against them be declared munafiq... is that acceptable to you??

a derivative point is the "blasphemy" law has actually harmed islam by acting against those muslims who were propagating the true aspects of true islam[1]...

2005:

In August 2005, an anti-terrorist court found Younus Sheikh guilty of disrespecting the Quran after he wrote a book ‘Shaitan Maulvi’ which mentioned that the concept of stoning to death after committing adultery does not exist in Islam. The judge imposed a fine of Rs 100, 000 rupees and sentenced him to lifetime imprisonment.

please read my post to basel above... if iqbal had been alive in the 80's and 90's, perhaps he too would be charged for "blasphemy".


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[1] Timeline: Accused under the Blasphemy Law - In-depth - DAWN.COM

 

[v9s]

does the quran talk about five-prayers-day and does it describe the manner of prayer??

as far as i know, no on both things.

Merey bhai, I respect your views, but i'm surprised for a progressive muslim, you aren't aware of the message in the Quran.

The Quran does mention the 5 prayers. The quran doesn't describe the manner of prayer exactly (i.e. do this, then this, then this - this is how to pray) but it mentions certain actions like bowing down, falling prostrate, etc.

You know why it isn't described completely? Because Islam is Millat-e-Ibrahim - i.e. the religion of Abraham. Islamic rites like Salat, Hajj and fasting were first prescribed to Prophet Abraham, not to Prophet Muhammad. The Quran asks prophet Muhammad to follow the religion/practices of Abraham in the Quran. In fact, there are a set of orthodox Jews that have the same exact rites of prayer like muslims do. These rites have been passed on from generation to generation, which is why the Quran only mentions some aspects of the rites as correction.

 

[Solomon2]

Oh they all get unemployment (free money for 26+ weeks) for being fired. I'm sure they all knew that factoid.

...Rather than protesting with employer, it is better to inform them and if they do not allow you to pray you can look for a job where these things are allowed..

Pray or work? Former Cargill employees look for jobs, reconciliation
By Stephanie Alderton
Times Staff Writer
POSTED: 01/06/2016 11:09:18 AM MST


A sign near the Fort Morgan Cargill plant on Monday. Mike Martin, Cargill's communications director, said the plant's second shift is operating at "a significantly reduced capacity" since 190 employees were fired after a prayer dispute. (Stephanie Alderton / Fort Morgan Times)

Khadar Ducaale spent the first few days of the new year helping his neighbors file unemployment claims.

Ducaale is a longtime community activist in Fort Morgan who runs the local Somali Community Office, which is designed to help immigrants transition to life in the town. This year, he's spending a lot of time helping the nearly 200 Muslim employees who were fired from the Fort Morgan Cargill plant Dec. 23 after they claimed its management was no longer allowing them to pray in the workplace. The Council of American-Islamic Relations is negotiating with Cargill representatives to resolve the conflict, but in the meantime, some are looking for work elsewhere.

"It's kind of between a rock and a hard place," Ducaale said. "People want to go back [to work], but they still want to pray."


Khadar Ducaale of the Fort Morgan Somali Community Office. (File Photo / Fort Morgan Times)

Hassan Ibrahim has worked for Cargill since 2009. He held a supervisor position until he and his wife, who also worked at the plant, were fired for failing to come to work three days in a row.

Muslim workers at the plant have always taken five- to 10-minute breaks during their shift for afternoon prayers, he said. They typically left the assembly line one or two at a time, covering for each other to avoid slowing down production. But on Dec. 18, Ibrahim said, they were told they would no longer be allowed to do so. So the following Monday, he and about 200 of his co-workers left work at the plant's second shift and didn't come back.

Since then, he's been applying for other jobs in the area.

"We have no income right now," Ibrahim said. "If they let us pray, we would go back."

Jaylani Hussein, executive director of CAIR, said he is still negotiating with Cargill representatives to resolve the conflict.

"We're hoping to negotiate a return to work for these employees," he said. "Hopefully the company will be able to adjust its policy, or at least allow people to pray under the existing circumstances."

Current company policy dictates that Cargill employees who have been fired have to wait six months before applying again. Mike Martin, director of communications for Cargill, said they are "considering significantly reducing that interval." But so far, no final decisions have been made.

Since the employees were fired, the second shift at the Fort Morgan plant has been operating at a significantly reduced capacity, and the company has put up "now hiring" signs all over town.

Cargill representatives have consistently denied changing any policies regarding religious accommodation. The Somali workers say they aren't sure who ordered the reported ban on prayer, though Ibrahim said it occurred after the plant hired a new second shift manager.

Most of the workers would be willing to come back to Cargill if they were sure they'd be allowed prayer breaks.

"Everybody liked the job," Ibrahim Hirsi, who had worked for Cargill for nine months before the dispute, said. "When I was interviewed, I asked them, could I get the break time, four minutes or five minutes, and they said, 'Sure, no problem.'...But it's not that simple."

Islam requires its followers to pray at six specific times throughout the day.

"While reasonable efforts are made to accommodate employees, accommodation is not guaranteed every day and is dependent on a number of factors," Martin said in an earlier press release.

CAIR and Cargill representatives are hoping to set up a teleconference this week to help resolve their dispute, but no date had been set as of Tuesday.

While the conflict has attracted attention from national news media, Ducaale said some Somalis feel it is the latest example of how their needs are ignored in Fort Morgan itself.

"We are part of this city," he said. "We want to be part of the city. We have shops, we are contributing to the economy, we want to be here. But there is some kind of silence that all of us feel."

------

So we have the workers' story:

Muslim workers at the plant have always taken five- to 10-minute breaks during their shift for afternoon prayers, he said. They typically left the assembly line one or two at a time, covering for each other to avoid slowing down production. But on Dec. 18, Ibrahim said, they were told they would no longer be allowed to do so.​

vs. the management's story:

"11 people from one specific table all asked to pray at the same time. When they were told they couldn’t all go at once, ten resigned."​

 

[Moonlight]

i mentioned it because you speak of discrimination against muslims in usa... salman taseer spoke against the dictator-imposed "blasphemy" law in pakistan that was discriminatory against non-muslims and the progressive/anti-reactionary muslims, other than the simple fact that it is anti-human and non-islami.

also, if you have read one of my earlier posts on this thread mentioning a case in bangalore ( india ) similar to the one in the usa meat-packing plant, it was my intention to declare that just being fanatical and busy in prayers does not automatically make one a follower or defender of true islam... if that had been the case, every hardcore talibani should be declared true muslim and the pakistan army fighting against them be declared munafiq... is that acceptable to you??

a derivative point is the "blasphemy" law has actually harmed islam by acting against those muslims who were propagating the true aspects of true islam[1]...



please read my post to basel above... if iqbal had been alive in the 80's and 90's, perhaps he too would be charged for "blasphemy".


-----

[1] Timeline: Accused under the Blasphemy Law - In-depth - DAWN.COM

That was blasphemy case and this one is discrimination case. Two different scenarios.Don't wanna say more.

 

[Moonlight]

does the quran talk about five-prayers-day and does it describe the manner of prayer??

as far as i know, no on both things.

i believe the five prayers comes from zoroastrian religion which indirectly influenced some of the hadith writers, especially the persian, bukhari... and it is from the hadith books ( don't know which one and don't care ) that five prayers originates.

we must accept something from the hadith works ( and there are many ) only if it agrees with common sense and reject it otherwise.

besides, you did not respond to my point of the ibm-bangalore muslims and muslimahs not benefiting from establishing or talking of establishing a prayer culture in their offices.

and what can you tell me about the demolition of buildings in the nepal earthquake of 2015??



yes, that they could.

We are supposed to follow sunnah and Quran. 5 daily prayers are sunnah as well as fard. (Compulsory).