How would Pakistan Airforce handle Indian Airforce in case of a war??

[Trango Towers]

What strategy defensive/offensive does PAF have to counter the Indian airforce?? I can't help but ask this question cause I have strong doubts over the ability of PAF to counter a airforce much superior in numbers and which has vastly superior aircrafts/.


Do we even stand a chance ? Or would it be an overkill against us? , some of the stats below really makes me worried . Do we have a strategy ? Or enough weapons, SAMS, aircrafts to counter them ?

Here are some of the front line fighter jets and their total numbers in both airforce .

Indian Airforce.


Sukhoi Su-30MKI (Twin Engine Fighter jet) Russia


About 230 in number.


Mikoyan MiG-29 (Twin Engine Fighter jet)

About 69 in number.


Dassault Mirage 2000 France Multirole fighter


About 50 in number.



SEPECAT Jaguar UK, Role Attack.


About 145 in number



MiG 27


About 87 in number


Mig 21

About 245


And along with that 36 Twin Engine Rafale fighter jets to be inducted soon.



And here is what we have in comparison .



Pakistan Airforce.



General Dynamics F-16 Fighting Falcon US /Single Engine (Multirole) .



About 76 in total numbers.




CAC/PAC JF-17 Thunder /Single Engine (Multirole).




About 86-88 in numbers.


Dassault Mirage III


About 80 .



Dassault Mirage 5

About 82.


Chengdu F-7 (Interceptor)
F-7P/PG

About 193.





We basically have NO TWIN ENGINE fighter jet in our arsenal and Mirage 5,Mirage 3 and F7 are so old that they are basically useless in case of a war .


Our front line air crafts are F-16 and JF-17 which are single engine fighter jets and combined we have have about 165 in number , while India has SU 30 MKI a twin engine fighter jet alone around 230 in numbers.


Its crystal clear that India has the much superior fighter jets, we don't have the numbers either ... but do we have a plan??

what most people fail to understand is that approx. 70 percent of the cost in non airframe. the avionics abroad our old fighters are world class together with state of the art missiles and superb training. on paper indeed we do not stand a chance but if that's really the case then why has the enemy not carried out your worse nightmare. is it because they know that if they cross the border PAF will break their neck?
wars are not just symmetric they are asymmetric. we will use all kinds of things from RAAD to take out airfrields to heavier missiles and other stand off weapons. F7 etc may be old but they are great point defence fighters. india knows this and that's why it doesn't dare.

 

[syed_yusuf]

su-30mki max availability is 55%

so there will be only half available at any given time

mig-29 and mirage 2000 are still from early 80's technology. awaiting full upgrade in the future. at best they ar3 3.5 gen technologically with very poor serviceability of mig-29

Pakistan have full 4th gen 9 fighter squadron now with 90% plus availability

India have 12 4th gen fighter squadrons with max 55% availability


Paf have higher aewcs density than IAF atleast twice more than IAF.

PAF have clear edge on stand off weapons

this is rough data but go do the math. and please kill this thread, this topic have been debated zillion times

 

[Trango Towers]

Policy of paf is to deny india air superiority for a week and pray international forces come in play and and stop the war or pray that some pushes the button.......
Paf defencive mind set is the real culprit. Hope we get a new air chief who policy would be best defense is offense and build a airforce which will fight for air suppiorty than for air defense.
And have dedicated aircrafts for fir offensive role rather having aircraft which adha tetar adha batair.

yes that's what PAF tells you and now I recommend your read sun su the art of war and how deception works.
PAF is also heavily criticised here for not have more modern fighters and no plans for the future yet jf17 block 3 is in the making and already announced plans for 5Th generation fighters. I recommend you all leave the thinking to PAF and not have such a defeatist attitude. I for one sleep very well knowing PAF defends me. goodnoght

 

[Lord Of Gondor]

the longest range bvraam for india (r-77) has an inferior range to the aim-120 and the sd-10

IIRC, the IAF's longest long range AAM is still the R27.
And the IAF ordered quite a lot, a few years ago:

A significant number of R-27 missiles were ordered by the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) from Artem under a $250m contract in March 2012, according to the news agency.

As part of the contract terms, the deliveries are scheduled to run from 2012 to 2013.

http://www.airforce-technology.com/...st-batch-of-r-27-missiles-to-indian-air-force

su-30mki max availability is 55%

"Sukhoi availability which had slipped to 46 per cent today is now above 63 per cent," Parrikar said.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201701041049247824-india-russia-fighter-aircraft-pact/

o there will be only half available at any given time

Yes, Peace and war time availability will be the same.

mig-29 and mirage 2000 are still from early 80's technology. awaiting full upgrade in the future. at best they ar3 3.5 gen technologically with very poor serviceability of mig-29

Again more BS.
The Mirage 2000 and MiG 29 upgrade are comprehensive and are done keeping in mind the threats arising in the neighbourhood over the next two decades.

Pakistan have full 4th gen 9 fighter squadron now with 90% plus availability

 

[Darth Vader]

We basically have NO TWIN ENGINE fighter jet in our arsenal and Mirage 5,Mirage 3 and F7 are so old that they are basically useless in case of a war .


Our front line air crafts are F-16 and JF-17 which are single engine fighter jets and combined we have have about 165 in number , while India has SU 30 MKI a twin engine fighter jet alone around 230 in numbers.


Its crystal clear that India has the much superior fighter jets, we don't have the numbers either ... but do we have a plan??

Twin Engines are not that Important incase of Pakistan ,
F7 and mig 21 are really good WVR fighters as,
People Tend to Ignore the importance of WVR here , BVR is the game but Problem is the Distance between these 2 countries and there Forward Operational bases,

Pakistan in the Start will Be Defensive for while and with Few Offensive strikes.
Pakistan Will use AWACS , and they will most probably also uses Afghan Air Space
Lets See War happens in 2020 , Pakistan air force will have majority BVR Capable Modern Air Crafts
i do see Paf , Going for Few more F16s ( used or New ) while keeping there pace with Thunder.
having big number is not the only thing , Maintenance , air force with higher sortie rate will have a edge against Enemy thats where things get bit complicated for Indian Sides they have so many different platforms for different roles and Su 30 Doesn't have good reputation in this department

War is Not a game , you can plan all you want but you cant promise all things will go according to your plans
Even if China Doesn't Supporting in the so called 2 Front War , Indian wont be able to use 70 % to 80 % its assets against Pakistan , and these numbers will go down on both sides as both sides will try to disable these bases so enemy cant deploy there Air Crafts , maintenance , spares all will come in play so lets See
and hope that cooler Heads prevail and things dont go sideways

 

[wiseone2]

su-30mki max availability is 55%

so there will be only half available at any given time

mig-29 and mirage 2000 are still from early 80's technology. awaiting full upgrade in the future. at best they ar3 3.5 gen technologically with very poor serviceability of mig-29

Pakistan have full 4th gen 9 fighter squadron now with 90% plus availability

India have 12 4th gen fighter squadrons with max 55% availability


Paf have higher aewcs density than IAF atleast twice more than IAF.

PAF have clear edge on stand off weapons

this is rough data but go do the math. and please kill this thread, this topic have been debated zillion times

if mig-29 and mirage-2000 are 1980s technology what do you call PAF Mirage III, Mirage-5 and J-7 ? 1960s technology ??

 

[DJ_Viper]

su-30s of iaf is incredible but e are making jf-17s and we already have 80 to 90 jf-17s which means all jf-17s can fire bvr.india will not allow all su-30s to perform aerial combat.they will use probably 100.they might rely on mig-29 and future rafale.i think pakistan is in good situation.this jf-17 program is like a backbone for paf.we must speed up the process.to defeat a bvr,you need skills.india will not engage if they see bvr.in case of war,pakistan air force will perform more SEAD duties.

I am surprised to read your post. You are way underestimating the IAF. You should also remember that their aircraft are much superior than majority of your jets. Pakistan needs to procure better and more modern technologies and produce JFT block III soon.

Funds are linked to economic uplift. Pakistan need aggressive economic leaders who spend day and night working for exceeding the target growth every year.

Pakistan has aggressive economic plan. Everything links to political stability and some in your country don't want it. So, with the see-saw political system, comes a weaker, tumbling economy. Somehow some politician and many people on here don't understand that. No matter how much corruption someone has done or not, that should be decided inside the Parliament and everyone should finish their term. Taking political laundry on the streets and damaging the progress will stop the progress and will put the PA and the PAF in a bad shape again.

 

[American Pakistani]

I am surprised to read your post. You are way underestimating the IAF. You should also remember that their aircraft are much superior than majority of your jets. Pakistan needs to procure better and more modern technologies and produce JFT block III soon.


.

What part of my post surprises you? I completely agree that indian airforce have superior quality jets.

 

[DJ_Viper]

What part of my post surprises you? I completely agree that indian airforce have superior quality jets.

Sorry, I clicked the wrong post by mistake. You made sense actually. It was the gentleman above your post who I was responding to. I updated my post. Thanks.

 

[Centurion2016]

Serviciability of PAF cannot be higher than indian air force.

The PAF has older machines and far less resources than india to maintain their fleet.

The Thunder carrys a Russian engine, They will have the same issues as all Russian engines high maintenance and smokey ... The Smioke we can all see in thunder flights. BIG MISTAKE by PAF not getting a western engine for thunder.

The mirages are sitting ducks can barley fly and are over 60 years old in design.

THE F16 fleet is prone to USA sanctions ,,,,,,,,, in KARGIL ACM of PAF admitted lster that only 13 F16s were flying out of 40 planes in 1999. that is service rate 30% .

TRAINING IS ANOTHER ABSOLIUTE MYTH.

When did PAF last send thunder for overseas excercises in UK USA OR FRANCE ....... ???? answer never ever despite been in service 9 years .

SU30MKI has trained in USA , FRANCE AND UK every year for a decade.

in AUGUST indian mki will train in DACT fior two weeks with Israel USA and RAF & UK ie with the best pilots in the world...

PAF is in no state to fight a full blown war .. virtualy no resources and nothing like the 90% servicability rates or world class pilots rubbish we keep hearing.

The PAF would last 7 days max n=before they would run out of fighters fuel and ammo and no longer deny IAF space and freedom.

 

[Etilla]

I doubt we will see much air combat.

All SAM action and bombers use stand off weapons with fighter giving cover.

Indian SAM is superior to Pakistani SAM in range.

But Soviet/Russian quality is suspect.

Pakistani SAM unlikely to do anything except radar lock as range insufficient.

Any cross border action done by Indian SFC-IAF will be limited, planned and will intend not to engage PAF aircraft.

That is the reality folks.

Please assume I am from Paraguay not India so you are not automatically biased against me

 

[Blue Marlin]

IIRC, the IAF's longest long range AAM is still the R27.
And the IAF ordered quite a lot, a few years ago:

http://www.airforce-technology.com/...st-batch-of-r-27-missiles-to-indian-air-force

fair enough, but do remind me how old are they? not the purchased missile as they are fairly new, but the design and the avionics of the missile?

 

[AUz]

PAF humiliated iaf in all previous major engagements in the air (65, 71)

However, we would not see air force vs air force type engagement anymore...as both air forces are technologically advance now with BVRs and stand off weapons. So classic air battles would be very little. It'll be more about protecting your own air space and relying to stand-off weapons to target enemy forward air bases and other military targets.

PAF's BVR missiles are superior to india's..

AIM-120Cs would prove mighty effective against massive Su-30s etc in defensive mode..

 

[Etilla]

PAF humiliated iaf in all previous major engagements in the air (65, 71)

However, we would not see air force vs air force type engagement anymore...as both air forces are technologically advance now with BVRs and stand off weapons. So classic air battles would be very little. It'll be more about protecting your own air space and relying to stand-off weapons to target enemy forward air bases and other military targets.

PAF's BVR missiles are superior to india's..

AIM-120Cs would prove mighty effective against massive Su-30s etc in defensive mode..

IAF has R-77 and MICA.

R-27 ER is most superior BVR in South Asia.

IAF decimated PAF in 1971.

IAF went unopposed in 1999.

PAF has few air bases and all will be well covered with surface hugging cruise missiles.

Afghans will not let you use physical air fields, only air space and that too India can deploy SAM battery if it wants.

But regardless of everything a dogfight between F-16 and Su-30 will not happen sadly.

 

[waz]

We've had these threads so many times. Please debate on those. There is no need to open more and fill the forum with them.