How to stop These UAV's From Attacking???

[shehbazi2001]

Regarding the detection of Predators and other drones, another important aspect to consider is their electromagnetic radiations....

The approach of detecting by radar is possible but another approach is to detect them by passive means.........from their radiation...

Like AWACS, the drones are a great sources of continous electromagnetic radiation......and after AWACS, their detection should be EASIEST of all airborne objects by passive means...........I really wonder why its been made an issue.....

PAF's ELINT squadron of Falcons can do it easily.....its the primary job of an ELINT aircraft...ie locating a source of radiation.......rather small air defence units should be able to detect and locate an airborne radiation source.....

Passive methods allow detection at double range of an active radar. Lets suppose that the detection range of Su-30's radar is 200km. It means that the waves go out to 200km, reflect from the target and come back to the Su-30...covering a distance of 400km.....what does it imply??

It implies that those waves of Su-30 radar that dont strike the target are going to travel 400km.......thus by passive means, we can detect Su-30 from 400kms......thats a great capability..

To achieve this, we must know that these signals are coming from Su-30...and here comes the role of Electronic warfare.......similarly if we are aware of the signals or waves of US drones ie communication bands and frequencies used by them, we can detect passively those drones literally from more than 100kms.......

It seems to be only the question of will to defend Pak airspace and Pak innocent civilians.......

 

[XYON]

You want to bring down a UAV? Turn the FALCO UAV being used by the PAF into a UCAV by fixing short range air-air missile under the belly or the wings. Keep the FALCO in the sky as sentry on a 24-hour rotational basis in a sweep patterns over the small area where the US Predator comes into, loiters over Waziristan. Detect the Predator by using Thermal Imagers or SAR. Lock, load and fire! This would be the cheapest way to keep these invading UAV's at bay then to keep the entire detection network ON and EXPOSED to the enemy!

 

[shehbazi2001]

You want to bring down a UAV? Turn the FALCO UAV being used by the PAF into a UCAV by fixing short range air-air missile under the belly or the wings. Keep the FALCO in the sky as sentry on a 24-hour rotational basis in a sweep patterns over the small area where the US Predator comes into, loiters over Waziristan. Detect the Predator by using Thermal Imagers or SAR. Lock, load and fire! This would be the cheapest way to keep these invading UAV's at bay then to keep the entire detection network ON and EXPOSED to the enemy!

SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar) is used for air to ground mapping.....I dont see the role of SAR for detecting airborne objects......

There are two types of radars with SAMs...one is surveillance and other is fire-control radar......what you need to keep secret is fire-control radar's several frequencies and modes.....called wartime frequencies and modes.....surveillance radar is to remain ON......no need to hide it for the last battle.....

Yes during arab-israeli wars and even in Gulf War, the arabs and Iraqis made the errors of turning on their fire-control radars in war modes just prior to actual war...........but here Pakistani civilians are being killed.....its another scenario.....even then we dont need to use wartime frequencies and modes......using ordinary modes, we can operate our fire-control radars......

 

[r4rehan]

i think we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems, but RUSSIA have if RUSSIA and PAKISTAN can be friend then RUSSIA can give that things what we don't have

 

[Kharian_Beast]

Well if Iran can obtain S-400 from Russia can someone tell me why we are still using Crotale? I'm sure China doesn't lack in air defense we could easily obtain some systems from them. I'm not an expert in Chinese military so can someone who knows explain why we haven't gone to them for high altitude defenses?

 

[IceCold]

Well if Iran can obtain S-400 from Russia can someone tell me why we are still using Crotale? I'm sure China doesn't lack in air defense we could easily obtain some systems from them. I'm not an expert in Chinese military so can someone who knows explain why we haven't gone to them for high altitude defenses?

pakistan is still searching for a long range high altitude air defence system or atleast it was during Musharraf's era. The problem in making a final decision was TOT. While even the americans were willing to sell their patriotic system, it was too expensive to obtain and with no TOT. Chinese offered their HQ-9 built on the bases of Russian S-300 system but i guess Pakistanis werent impressed by its performance. The only SAM system that we ordered was the SPADA from italy, but its a medium range system and we still lack a high altitude missile defence system. IMO HQ-9 should provide us with the bases to begin with and therefore should be acquired with limited numbers.

 

[IceCold]

i think we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems, but RUSSIA have if RUSSIA and PAKISTAN can be friend then RUSSIA can give that things what we don't have

Our relations with the Russians havent reached that level where they would sell us a SAM system. Pakistan did showed its interest in the S-300 system but to no avail one for a reason that Russia does not want to upset India.

 

[Jliu]

well my simple Question is How to stop These (US)UAV's From Attacking???

In case Pakistan army has permission from GOV to Destroy These UAV's
But we still dont have any good Air defence missile systems!!! which can destroy These Birds....!!!
Moreover we cannot rely on Expensive PAF flights and as far as paf air defence is concern we only have crotale missile systems which are only used to protect airbases in Pakistan!!!

we cannot destroy these Uav's From Anti Aircraft Guns as they are not capable!!!

I may be wrong in this regard plz do correct me!!!

We need to get hold of modern Missile Defence systems....such as

Tor missile system
(ADATS)
Wiesel 2
Or we can Make Stinger Sites on top of the Mountains

Well in my point of View best Option Is to Procure TOR-M1 Or ADATS

I do feel quite a bit for you all as no country can stomach its sovereignty being violated at will. But think positively from a tactical POV since there is nothing the GoP will do about it. At least that's a few less bombs destined for Karachi or Islamabad and a short term vacumm in Taliban leadership that if the PA is smart they can take advantage of.

And no sane person will ever shoot down those Predators. Believe me-those F-16s are too vital for another repeat of 1998.

 

[shehbazi2001]

I do feel quite a bit for you all as no country can stomach its sovereignty being violated at will. But think positively from a tactical POV since there is nothing the GoP will do about it. At least that's a few less bombs destined for Karachi or Islamabad and a short term vacumm in Taliban leadership that if the PA is smart they can take advantage of.

And no sane person will ever shoot down those Predators. Believe me-those F-16s are too vital for another repeat of 1998.

I think you are grievously mistaken. By killing civilians directly, without sharing intelligence with GoP, US is going to cause an exponential increase in in suicide bombings in settled areas of Pakistan.

Sharing intelligence may at least eliminate loss of innocent civilian lives, not to mention women and children. You seem not be aware of Pukhtoon culture. A pukhtoon of tribal areas cant live without taking revenge.

You cant cause any vaccum in leadership among Taliban. A commander of Taliban does not need to do a Command and Staff course, he does not need some degree in war studies......these things are in their blood......they have been fighting since CENTURIES......its in their genes..........British govt had concluded the hard way that the only way to tame these tribes is not to agitate them.....and I mean pukhtoon tirbes on both sides of the border..............

and F-16 is not vital.........any good fighter adequately armed can fulfil the role............

 

[muse]

Be affraid, be very affraid, take the f-16's and shut up! So you can be blackmailed - so you can continue to think of these not as weapons to be used but as some kind of gems.

 

[AAHAN]

I think in mountainous terrain helicopters are very hard to spot even if you have a state of the art AWACS flying 24/7. So the solution is to go to every single mountain and valley in Kashmir, FATA etc and dig some bunkers in strategic locations. These bunkers would not be that large and would also have the ability to be run unmanned for many days at a time. On top of each bunker will be placed a few low range sonar, radar and ultrasound sensors and transmitters. Every single valley or nook would be within range of at least 3 of these bunkers which would constantly be monitoring the hilly areas for sound, radiation and visual cues. They will be linked to a central processing area in another location which deals with input coming in from all bunkers and triangulating suspicious readings. This will allow the listening stations to detect even "under the radar" incursions within seconds of coming in range. The bunkers would also be manned by a few SAMs which can be launched by remote control or by soldiers in the bunkers upon order.

In fact I think this low cost system could also look forward across the border to areas Pakistan does not even control and detect incoming choppers flying low in valleys to avoid radar from 2 or 3 miles away. And these concrete bunkers can be built right now at very low cost using entirely local technology and expertise. Also the advantage of these bunkers are that they are widely spread out and low cost as opposed to a flying AWACS which can easily be shot down.

The problem with most pakistanis is they think like shopaholics and want to buy buy buy and spend spend spend instead of taking pride in indigenously developed technology and solutions. This attitude needs to change.

Well i believe the notion is absolutely right .
Only problem i see is the situation in tribal areas which seems to be posing a problem in building and defending such sites against local militants .

 

[maqsad]

Well i believe the notion is absolutely right .
Only problem i see is the situation in tribal areas which seems to be posing a problem in building and defending such sites against local militants .

These sites can be built in strategic locations making it very difficult to attack and destroy the equipment from the ground. For instance the bunkers would mostly be constructed underground and have concrete construction for strengh with thick steel openings and doors and would be situated right at the top of a mountain, looking down on the valley. This means that if they are attacked and someone is manning them they can just shut themselves in and send out a distress signal and be completely safe.

The area of the bunker would be fenced off with multiple zones using barbed wire fences with IR sensor tripwires that detect every time someone cuts into a fence. Plenty of advance warning. A couple CCTVs will also be watching the area around so in an isolated mountaintop the security should be very easy to maintain. Most of the electronic equipment would be located inside the buried bunker making it impossible to destroy. Only the antennas and some of the other sensors would be located above ground and plenty of spares for these would be in stock underground.

Then on top of that the militants would really not be interested in destroying a tiny outpost whose sole job is to track UAV flights coming from Afghanistan or India(in the case of the kashmir border), what would be the point? The militants don't fly any sort of aircraft and these outposts would be almost completely dedicated to tracking low flying objects.

 

[lionheartsalahudin]

as brother maqsad said all that bunker and detection in b/w the mountains as obviously these ucavs fliw at low altitude to avoid our hq-2b systems we should arm the manpads on these bunkers with our hand held clone of russian(igla1) and american(stinger) Anza MKIII/QW-2 and every one soldier in ten should have it this shot down mig-21 and mig-27 during kargil war and will come in handy and if ucav decides to evade it through high altitude then it might be detected by hq-2b thats what i am thinkin but who knows whats going through the head of our politicans and generals lets pray for the best!

 

[Patriot]

as brother maqsad said all that bunker and detection in b/w the mountains as obviously these ucavs fliw at low altitude to avoid our hq-2b systems we should arm the manpads on these bunkers with our hand held clone of russian(igla1) and american(stinger) Anza MKIII/QW-2 and every one soldier in ten should have it this shot down mig-21 and mig-27 during kargil war and will come in handy and if ucav decides to evade it through high altitude then it might be detected by hq-2b thats what i am thinkin but who knows whats going through the head of our politicans and generals lets pray for the best!

Yeah i hope our Pak Army kills all the nasty bastards (Talibans)

 

[Jliu]

Yeah i hope our Pak Army kills all the nasty bastards (Talibans)

So that it will preserve the nation's territorial integrity.

You'll be undoubtedly pleased to note that funds have been diverted for procurement of new attack helicopters, IOC 2009-11?