What's new

How to counter Gulf threat to Pakistan's integrity ?

A very interesting read.

Source: AFP: New US study finds diverse beliefs in Muslim world

New US study finds diverse beliefs in Muslim world

WASHINGTON — The global Muslim community of 1.6 billion people agree on the core principles of their faith, but differ widely in religiosity and religious tolerance, according to a poll published Thursday.

"Muslims are unified by core beliefs and in core practices" like faith in a single God, believe in the Prophet Mohammed and fasting during Ramadan, but "there are differences, sometimes widely" in religious interpretation, James Bell, the principal author of the new Pew Research Center study, told AFP.

The report, which Bell said was "unprecedented" in scope, was conducted in over 80 languages in 39 countries that account for 67 percent of the world's Muslim population.

Researchers interviewed around 38,000 people in 2008-2009 and 2011-2012 as part of a larger project on changes in global religions.

Between 85 and 100 percent of Muslims believe in God and revere the Prophet Mohammed, the survey said.

Eight of ten people interviewed in sub-Saharan Africa as well as South and Southeast Asia say religion is "very important."

But only six in ten agreed in sample countries of the Middle East and North Africa, and only one in two agreed in former Soviet countries like Russia and some Central Asian republics.

In the Middle East and North Africa, Muslims aged 35 and over are more religious than their younger counterparts. The opposite is true of religiosity in Russia.

In 39 countries surveyed, men are more likely than women to pray at a mosque, which Bell explained "is likely to do with social culture about how women publicly observe their worship."

Still, "in most countries surveyed... women are about as likely as men to read (or listen to readings from) the Koran on a daily basis," the report said.

A median figure of 63 percent of Muslims in surveyed countries believe there is only one way to interpret Islam. Only 37 percent of American Muslims agreed with that statement.

In countries where Sunnis and Shiites live side by side in large numbers -- such as Lebanon and Iraq -- believers are more likely to accept the other sect.

Conversely, in predominantly Sunni Pakistan, 41 percent of Muslims believe Shiites are not true Muslims.

A quarter of everyone surveyed "identify themselves neither as Sunni nor Shiite but as 'just a Muslim.'"

Nine out of ten Muslims interviewed were born into the religion.

Conversion rates are highest in former communist countries, with seven percent of all converts in Russia. Many of the converts were raised in atheism.

"When it comes to conversion ... it is not playing a large role in expanding or growing the number of Muslims around the world," said Bell.

Pew plans to publish another survey soon on Muslims' social and political attitudes.
 
.
Nope, we use our Afghanistan consulates and linkage with BLA. RAW has been pretty much active since India got a chance to get a foot hold in Afghanistan when WoT was going on (still is) by putting ts humanitarian side first.

@KRAIT

The whole world uses UAE for such purposes, including India. And this is probably the easiest place for India to interact with Afghan elements inimical to Pakistan. In Afghanistan, they have to be careful, lest the embassy incident gets repeated.
 
.
@KRAIT

The whole world uses UAE for such purposes, including India. And this is probably the easiest place for India to interact with Afghan elements inimical to Pakistan. In Afghanistan, they have to be careful, lest the embassy incident gets repeated.
Then I may have missed out something, don't know more about UAE-INDIA-BLA connection, to be honest. Will like to read more detailed explanation.

@Hyperion

When it comes to conversion ... it is not playing a large role in expanding or growing the number of Muslims around the world

One of the most important line for other religions. Good find.
 
.
Then I may have missed out something, don't know more about UAE-INDIA-BLA connection, to be honest. Will like to read more detailed explanation.

Krait, not much reading is needed. It's just a safe meeting point. Just like Dr. Dawood and Co.. PLA & the Israeli death squad incidence, and don't forget all the latest spy movies are made in Dubai - so there must be something behind it :D

:drag:

One of the most important line for other religions. Good find.
Exactly, that's what shocked me as well!
 
.
Can't you understand that the deobandis and jamaatis were strongly against the creation of Pakistan?

That was then , this is now ... Pakistan wasn't such radicalized and extremist since the '47 , was it , amigo ?
 
.
Its not about being timid. Emotions have no place when you are talking about national interest. You weed out and clear the field systematically.

Try to crack their terror network, money flow and if possible give little support to faction that are against current ruling people. Make it a bargaining chip.

I accept your perception but as I said, do not rush. Take calculated risk.

Trust me you can see it for yourself. Emotions are not at play in Pakistan when it comes to the security establishment. By that I mean Army and intelligence as civilian government thinks in dollars. The approach of Pakistan in this regard has been nothing less than methodical to say the least.
 
.
Okay I am noticing people here do not have the ability to distinguish GCC states from each other.

Here is a little history lesson called "Modern Qatar 101":

The current Ameer of Qatar overthrew his father in a royal guard coup supported by the CIA and American Elements, This was a response to the Fahad brain stroke and the soon to come King Abdullah coronation (He was one of the people who refused King Fahad's request for American troops stationing for Desert Storm FYI). So With King Abdullah soon to be king and reversing the what I like to call (Open A-Hole for US policy of King Fahad) Which he did, they overthrew the Ameer of Qatar and replaced him with his US educated son (Saudi Arabia attempted to replace him with his uncle in a coup but that coup failed).

And as predicted King Abdullah told the US to GTFO and as predicted they relocated to the Base they have been building secretly in Qatar for years. Since then relations with Qatar have been rather hostile and Al-Jazeera was banned from KSA because it was spreading Anti-Saudi propaganda in there but since the Arab Spring the hostility has gone down (Which explains why Qatari support for BLA has gone down as well).

It is in KSA's best interest for Pakistan to remain strong because KSA draws strength from Pakistan and is also dependent on the good relations of Pakistani Military because the bulk of training of Saudi Armed Forces is Pakistani in origin.

Regarding UAE, it is still by the way many states with a high level of autonomy regarding internal policy and to some extent foreign policy despite the charade of unity, Dubai doesn't want a competitor in the region as it has barely any Oil and relies on being a commercial base in its income and is already running on high deficit already.


So again I implore you to distinguish Gulf states from one another. People hear the name of the word "Gulf state" and the only thing that comes to their mind is KSA as if KSA is the only one there and are basically completely and utterly ignorant of the dynamics of inter-GCC rivalry and hostilities.
 
.
Krait, not much reading is needed. It's just a safe meeting point. Just like Dr. Dawood and Co.. PLA & the Israeli death squad incidence, and don't forget all the latest spy movies are made in Dubai - so there must be something behind it :D

:drag:


Exactly, that's what shocked me as well!

Yes, however in the USA Islam is the fastest growing religion. That means that within 20-30 years the world can see a Muslim tilt (provided the USA is still the dominant power of the world). With this I mean by conversions.

Okay I am noticing people here do not have the ability to distinguish GCC states from each other.

Here is a little history lesson called "Modern Qatar 101":

The current Ameer of Qatar overthrew his father in a royal guard coup supported by the CIA and American Elements, This was a response to the Fahad brain stroke and the soon to come King Abdullah coronation (He was one of the people who refused King Fahad's request for American troops stationing for Desert Storm FYI). So With King Abdullah soon to be king and reversing the what I like to call (Open A-Hole for US policy of King Fahad) Which he did, they overthrew the Ameer of Qatar and replaced him with his US educated son (Saudi Arabia attempted to replace him with his uncle in a coup but that coup failed).

And as predicted King Abdullah told the US to GTFO and as predicted they relocated to the Base they have been building secretly in Qatar for years. Since then relations with Qatar have been rather hostile and Al-Jazeera was banned from KSA because it was spreading Anti-Saudi propaganda in there but since the Arab Spring the hostility has gone down (Which explains why Qatari support for BLA has gone down as well).

It is in KSA's best interest for Pakistan to remain strong because KSA draws strength from Pakistan and is also dependent on the good relations of Pakistani Military because the bulk of training of Saudi Armed Forces is Pakistani in origin.

Regarding UAE, it is still by the way many states with a high level of autonomy regarding internal policy and to some extent foreign policy despite the charade of unity, Dubai doesn't want a competitor in the region as it has barely any Oil and relies on being a commercial base in its income and is already running on high deficit already.


So again I implore you to distinguish Gulf states from one another. People hear the name of the word "Gulf state" and the only thing that comes to their mind is KSA as if KSA is the only one there and are basically completely and utterly ignorant of the dynamics of inter-GCC rivalry and hostilities.

Mosa we have repeatedly brought up the difference in this thread.
 
.
That was then , this is now ... Pakistan wasn't such radicalized and extremist since the '47 , was it , amigo ?

It was and it wasn't. I can give you much insight to this if you are ready for the truth.
 
.
Pakistan, before the import of Salafism and foreign agents!

Source: Also Pakistan – IV | DAWN.COM

also-pakistan-12.jpg


also-pakistan-4-1.jpg



also-pakistan-4-142.jpg


also-pakistan-21.jpg


also-pakistan-4-140.jpg


Minorities enjoying freedom!

also-pakistan-4-1301.jpg


When PIA was not piss in air!

also-pakistan-371.jpg


Where people were judged by their accomplishments and not their religious beliefs:

also-pakistannnn.jpg




IF RELIGION'S SUPPOSED AFTER-AFFECT IS TO TAKE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT / SPEECH / SECURITY / PROGRESS AWAY FROM ME AND MY COUNTRYMEN, THEN THE HELL WITH SUCH A SECT AND SCHOOL OF THOUGHT!
 
.
GCC countries, nations, or member states include Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, Saudi Arabia and UAE.

The constituent UAE emirates are Abu Dhabi, Ajman, Dubai, Fujairah, Ras al-Khaimah, Sharjah, and Umm al-Quwain. The capital is Abu Dhabi.
 
.
Here is a little history lesson called "Modern Qatar 101":

Informative as always. Keep it up Mosmania! :toast_sign:

Keep those insights coming....

To the point: There must be some 'decent' way to get rid of the HRH. The Football & Princess Shaikheena?
 
.
Pakistan, before the import of Salafism and foreign agents!

Minorities enjoying freedom!

When PIA was not piss in air!

Where people were judged by their accomplishments and not their religious beliefs:

IF RELIGION'S SUPPOSED AFTER-AFFECT IS TO TAKE FREEDOM OF MOVEMENT / SPEECH / SECURITY / PROGRESS AWAY FROM ME AND MY COUNTRYMEN, THEN THE HELL WITH SUCH A SECT AND SCHOOL OF THOUGHT!

I consider myself a very liberal person.

But this is a strong statement indeed.

Being liberal doesn't mean that you insult other religions, sects, caste or creed.

In order to defy Taliban type thinking, you should not become a Liberal Taliban. In my opinion there is no difference between the two - as poles apart as they may be.
 
.
In order to defy Taliban type thinking, you should not become a Liberal Taliban. In my opinion there is no difference between the two - as poles apart as they may be.

There is no insult intended in that, is there? It simply states that the security of state is supreme, every single life needs to be valued, everyone has the freedom to move and stay.

I've never suggested that you cross the threshold between liberal and libertine, whatever are your beliefs, you own them, and you have the right to own them, just don't try to measure anyone else with your scale of morality... You think that it's easily done? I don't think so!
 
.
It was and it wasn't. I can give you much insight to this if you are ready for the truth.

Raz if you look at the tenets of Deobandi they are heavily influenced by Wahhabi school of thought.

Deobandi - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Beliefs

Deobandi beliefs, like those of other Muslims, are based on the Quran and Sunnah. They follow any one of the four; Imam Abu Hanifa, Imam Shafi, Imam Malik, and Imam Ahmad bin Hanbal,but they primarily follow Hanafi school of fiqh.[13] and follow the Ash'ari and Maturidi schools of Aqidah.[14] In Sufism they follow Chishti, Naqshbandi, Suhrawardi and Qadri Sufi orders.[15][16][17]
The Deobandi movement is known for its harsh stance against many practices common in the Indian subcontinent such as building over tombs, celebrating Milad al-Nabi, and calling on the prophets and saints for assistance. The founders of the Deobandi movement were influenced by the Wahhabi movement.[18]

Global encyclopedia of Islamic Mystics and Mysticism, page 62

You want another source yaar? I got you right now.

Deobandi Islam

Although the majority of the Islamic population (Sunni) in Afghanistan and Pakistan, belong to the Hanafi sect, the theologians who have pushed Pakistan towards Islamic Radicalism for decades, as well as the ones who were the founders of the Taliban, espoused Wahabi rhetoric and ideals. This sect took its inspiration from Saudi Hanbali theologians who immigrated there in the 18th century, to help their Indian Muslim brothers with Hanbali theological inspiration against the British colonialists. Propelled by oil-generated wealth, the Wahhabi worldview increasingly co-opted the Deobandi movement in South Asia.

Hanafi was the dominant group of Muslims in South Asia. The leaders of Hanafi sect were known as Pirs or Saints and were Sufis believing in spirituality and such.

Deobandi is a part of the Hanbali sect which is prevalent in the Arabian Peninsula which is basically Salafi/ Wahhabi.

Sorry for getting off topic.

The question is why weren't Deobandis so militant if they have been here since the 18th century and why are they so militant now. The answer to that is simple, today they have both oil money and the weapons to back them up so they have made their demands more well known.

That being said my grandmother is Wahabbi although my forefathers were Sufi Pirs so I am in no way trying to say all Wahabbis/ Salafis are militant. The majority of militants however find their reasoning to justify their crimes in Wahhabi/Salafi/Deobandi texts and we must confront these teachings if we want to know why Pakistan has so much widespread chaos today.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom