How should Pakistan tackle S400 acquisition by India? The Drone Swarm Technology....

[Osiris]

You still haven’t proven that China won’t get it!

And you haven't proven, it will.

Atleast I have shown, Russia can not disregard MTCR treaty and we all know Russia hasn't approached MTCR for China specific dispensation yet, nor has it transferred any 40N6 missiles to China. .

You have shown nothing, besides wild speculations.

 

[Falcon26]

And you haven't proven, it will.

Atleast I have shown, Russia can not disregard MTCR treaty and we all know Russia hasn't approached MTCR for China specific dispensation yet, nor has it transferred any 40N6 missiles to China. .

You have shown nothing, besides wild speculations.

If you take off those tainted glasses, you will notice that a short google search will yield endless sources of Chinese acquisitions of the S-400 in the context of the 40N6E and potential countermeasures by Taiwan. If there are wild speculations in this discussion, it’s most definitely coming from you!

 

[Vanamali]

The best response to S-400
and possibly the only viable response

will and should be to break india on ethnic lines.

As if Pakistan didn't try that option. It tried and failed miserably.

The answer is simple: Pakistan should evaluate all options available and should not depend on just one form of counter defence. The acquisition of drones and more importantly to challenge and neutralise this threat, Pakistan should buy the upcoming S-500 which is years ahead in technological and parity terms. Defence of our beloved home is of paramount importance and monetary value should not become an obstacle or hinderance.

Buying Russian maal will involve American sanctions so you don't have that option. Will suggest a simpler and cost effective option. Abandon thousand cut policy against India I.e leave using terrorist as tool but enhance diplomatic offence for Kashmir. Spend less on defence and divert that to development. Have a economic and scientific competition. Peace may prevail.

 

[SabzShaheen]

Abandon thousand cut policy against India I.e leave using terrorist as tool but enhance diplomatic offence for Kashmir.

Even if it was given that Pakistan supports terrorism in the region (which India has been proven to do itself), it is a complete joke to think this current fanatic Indian government will pursue or even wants peace with Pakistan. The delusion of Akhand Bharat seems to be engrained in the RSS-backed ruling party. India refuses to engage in dialogue which Pakistan has many a time offered, conveniently and hypocritically using "terrorism" as a scapegoat.

Let me give you something to think about here. Suppose Pakistan did sponsor terrorism in the region. Let's make it more specific and the army sponsors it since that is who India blames. So what? Will refusal to dialogue work? No, because India cannot squeeze Pakistan nearly as hard enough to make it bow down. Not even the US has been able to do that. Instead, if India resumed dialogue regardless of Pakistan army-sponsored terror attacks, tensions will decrease and pave the way for peace. The army will lose its influence in society as the Pakistani people's perceptions of outside threats will change and thus they will lose their ability to sponsor terror attacks.

The reality is that India is presently engaging in an arms race with Pakistan (and winning) and thinks it can pry Kashmir off the latter. It thinks that Pakistan will not launch nukes if the war is short. They are heavily mistaken even by their own logic. If an army (referring to Pakistan's) is supposedly willing to kill innocents in multiple terror attacks in India over the years, do seriously think they will not put a very expensive nuclear programme to use and protect their nation and its interests against Pakistan's primary enemy?

There was a rather daft member on this forum who failed to understand this basic logic here even after multiple explanations, or more likely he was deluded. Hopefully you can understand

 

[Sinnerman108]

As if Pakistan didn't try that option. It tried and failed miserably.

You suck at history,
we had india .. when you hadn't achieved food security through the 80s,
and benazir handed over the sikh information.
You had effectively lost punjab .. and your food production.

Stay tuned ...

 

[Vanamali]

You suck at history,
we had mother india by the boobs .. when you hadn't achieved food security through the 80s,
and benazir handed over the sikh information.
You had effectively lost punjab .. and your food production.

Stay tuned ...

Why Benazir I.e leader of Pakistan handed over Sikh information. Don't you think that we convinced representative if Pakistan people that providing information is best for them. So don't you think we achieved what we want peacefully...

Even if it was given that Pakistan supports terrorism in the region (which India has been proven to do itself), it is a complete joke to think this current fanatic Indian government will pursue or even wants peace with Pakistan. The delusion of Akhand Bharat seems to be engrained in the RSS-backed ruling party. India refuses to engage in dialogue which Pakistan has many a time offered, conveniently and hypocritically using "terrorism" as a scapegoat.

Let me give you something to think about here. Suppose Pakistan did sponsor terrorism in the region. Let's make it more specific and the army sponsors it since that is who India blames. So what? Will refusal to dialogue work? No, because India cannot squeeze Pakistan nearly as hard enough to make it bow down. Not even the US has been able to do that. Instead, if India resumed dialogue regardless of Pakistan army-sponsored terror attacks, tensions will decrease and pave the way for peace. The army will lose its influence in society as the Pakistani people's perceptions of outside threats will change and thus they will lose their ability to sponsor terror attacks.

The reality is that India is presently engaging in an arms race with Pakistan (and winning) and thinks it can pry Kashmir off the latter. It thinks that Pakistan will not launch nukes if the war is short. They are heavily mistaken even by their own logic. If an army (referring to Pakistan's) is supposedly willing to kill innocents in multiple terror attacks in India over the years, do seriously think they will not put a very expensive nuclear programme to use and protect their nation and its interests against Pakistan's primary enemy?

There was a rather daft member on this forum who failed to understand this basic logic here even after multiple explanations, or more likely he was deluded. Hopefully you can understand

We have come to table in past to get back stabbed. So it is Pakistan turn to prove their sincerity by cleaning violent elements under it's control. Till then India will not come to table but also try to increase the cost to Pakistan. It might result in Pakistan abonding Kashmir in toto.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Why Benazir I.e leader of Pakistan handed over Sikh information. Don't you think that we convinced representative if Pakistan people that providing information is best for them. So don't you think we achieved what we want peacefully...
.

Keep telling yourself that, and remind yourself how food was rationed in mother india.

 

[randomradio]

War will never will fair, and kill Indian morale, everything and the kitchen sink will be thrown at a S-400 battery to prove a point.

If so much of your resources and time is used up in defeating the S-400, that's what we are aiming for.

Well firstly China is not MTCR member can not be exported a missile of more than 300 Km range by another MTCR member without MTCR exemption first.
Secondly 40N6E missile is still in the testing phase, where as delivery S400 to china have already started.

China will be getting the 40N6E. They don't care about MTCR and such for borderline breaking of rules.

Again nonsense. China is not limited by MTCR. In fact, the widely held assumption is that it’s India (not China) that won’t be getting the 40N63.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1018556696430510085

India will also be getting the 40N6. In fact, we will do one step better and get the 77N6 series after the initial deliveries are complete.

It’s just a formality. All information points out to China getting the 40N6E

https://twitter.com/x/status/1034093096596893697

These guys don't know how to read spec charts of missiles.

Against aerodynamic targets, the 40N6 has a range of 380Km and an altitude of 30Km. And what this basically means is the missile will climb up to an altitude of 30Km before dropping down at the target.

Against ballistic targets, the 40N6 has a range of up to 100Km and an altitude of 185Km.

Please stop quoting twitter - where anyone can write anything without any evidence.

And MTCR in not just a formality, it is a binding treaty, which member countries can not just bypass, Or Brahmos missile which now has a range of 600 Km (after India has become a member of MTCR), would not have been just restricted to 300km for the past decade.

MTCR is not binding. It's just a blackmail treaty.

The reality is that India is presently engaging in an arms race with Pakistan (and winning)

India is not in an arms race with Pakistan.

India is not even militarising, it's just modernising existing forces with more modern systems. With our fighter jet numbers falling, we are attempting to plug the gaps with other assets like SAMs and attack helis.

It's a different story that India is attempting to create the narrative today that will see us militarising from the next decade, but at the current time we are not. Most of our inductions are pretty normal and was well known for decades.

India refuses to engage in dialogue which Pakistan has many a time offered, conveniently and hypocritically using "terrorism" as a scapegoat.

Terrorism is the main agenda, not a scapegoat.

Talks happen only when bullets are not being used.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Terrorism is the main agenda, not a scapegoat.

Talks happen only when bullets are not being used.

Yeah but one sided Terrorism agenda what good point you have @randomradio

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

Rest in peace Thaad, Patriot, s300, s400,s500 u will be missed. These systems have their life cut short by chinese Hypersonic Glider. I would be just as scared to see something that spectacular in sky just like chinese citizens were scared. Cant imagine the fear in the hearts if enemies when they see this coming towards them with will force and thermonuclear warheads with speed of mach 20+ and manueverability of 10x better than any missile ever produced.

My reaction would be the same as 3:02 in the video. 我天呢! 是 什么东西啊! 希望不是炸弹吧。

The great smoke prophecy ....

 

[randomradio]

Rest in peace Thaad, Patriot, s300, s400,s500 u will be missed. These systems have their life cut short by chinese Hypersonic Glider. I would be just as scared to see something that spectacular in sky just like chinese citizens were scared. Cant imagine the fear in the hearts if enemies when they see this coming towards them with will force and thermonuclear warheads with speed of mach 20+ and manueverability of 10x better than any missile ever produced.

My reaction would be the same as 3:02 in the video. 我天呢! 是 什么东西啊! 希望不是炸弹吧。

The great smoke prophecy ....

The wave rider that the Chinese have made is too slow. It's only mach 6 capable. The upcoming versions of the S-400 and THAAD can defeat this weapon.

The Americans and Russians have developed mach 20 wave riders, and are a decade ahead compared to the Chinese.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

The wave rider that the Chinese have made is too slow. It's only mach 6 capable. The upcoming versions of the S-400 and THAAD can defeat this weapon.

The Americans and Russians have developed mach 20 wave riders, and are a decade ahead compared to the Chinese.

Avangard is trying to reach 20 mach. But it burned up on mach 15 after 1 minute of flight in atmosphere. Chinese have done 3 seperate tests on 3 seperate hypersonic missiles. I have no doubt that neither russia or united states can match what chinese will field with in 3 years of time.

The difficulties were enginerring materials and propulsion. Propulsion and aerodynamic part has been taken care of. Material engimeerimg for thermal resistant coating is going on in 21 different institutes.
China spends on research what the whole world doesnt. Even the missiles we got with our anti ballistic missiles tests of later version of HQ-9 and HQ-19 had missiles with speeds of over mach 5.

Only limiting factor is materials for now. So far russians have had more sucess but they havent reached mach 20 yet.

One of the glider systems does have mach 6 speed yes its name us stary sky 2 in english.

While the recent one tested in inner mongolia had a successful speed of over mach 14+ real number is guardeded for now. As in 3 months there is another test coming with updated materials.

While the third system the wave rider is purely experimental at the moment like HD-1. Pla has no use for them at the moment. Those are psving way for better systems later on for 2nd wave of innovation

 

[SabzShaheen]

India is not in an arms race with Pakistan.

India is not even militarising, it's just modernising existing forces with more modern systems. With our fighter jet numbers falling, we are attempting to plug the gaps with other assets like SAMs and attack helis.

It's a different story that India is attempting to create the narrative today that will see us militarising from the next decade, but at the current time we are not. Most of our inductions are pretty normal and was well known for decades.

Why is it developing/acquiring so much new missile, aircraft and naval technology? An arms race is not just the accumulation of arms, it is also the development of them. It is a fact that India is in an arms race with China and Pakistan.

Of course, developments are known for decades. Especially in India's case, it takes years to finalise deals with other countries to procure their hardware. Doesn't mean it's not engaged in an arms race.

Terrorism is the main agenda, not a scapegoat.

Why doesn't India stop supporting terrorism then, both directly and indirectly? It enables terrorist launch pads in Afghanistan as well as sponsoring groups in Balochistan.

Talks happen only when bullets are not being used.

I'm sure it was you who was too stubborn to realise the reality of the world when I explained to you that that's not how politics work. Take the Sino-Indian War as an example, or World War 2. As I said, terrorism is just a scapegoat for lack of dialogue. The only reason it's working is that Pakistan is too weak to counter India's influence in the region e.g. in SAARC and so on. India fears CPEC as not only will it bring the Chinese and their interests into Pakistani territory but also potentially many other international players which will give Pakistan the backing it needs to bring attention to Indian-sponsored terrorism and its occupation of the Kashmiri people.

 

[randomradio]

Avangard is trying to reach 20 mach. But it burned up on mach 15 after 1 minute of flight in atmosphere. Chinese have done 3 seperate tests on 3 seperate hypersonic missiles. I have no doubt that neither russia or united states can match what chinese will field with in 3 years of time.

The Chinese are yet to even begin testing at the same level as Russia or the US.

 

[Foxtrot Delta]

The Chinese are yet to even begin testing at the same level as Russia or the US.

Thats what u think. I have credible sources here with me. Chinese aviation and missile development industries are bringing huge smiles on ( russian, pakistani and chinese) faces to some extent iranians too )))

These are interesting times for aviation and military enthusiasts. I can't even keep up with the developments on chinese systems. They are so fast!
I just hope they don't confirm or leak the good stuff just yet hehe