How PAF Should Counter the SU-30 MKI

[Mav3rick]

Indian pilots have flown the f16 many times

In trials right? Could they have flown it more then PAF flights on SUs and Migs?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

In trials right? Could they have flown it more then PAF flights on SUs and Migs?

In late 2007,
India agreed to a 5 year lease of the
Kalaikunda airbase in West Bengal
to Singapore for training of the
latter's air force 's F-16 fighter
aircraft due to limited airspace in
Singapore. This is the first New
Delhi has ever leased out its
military installations to foreign
country on a long-term basis.

Foreign relations of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Is that what he said in his post?

By the way, Kashmir is a part of Pakistan that is under illegal occupation

That's just excuses. I stated a fact, that previously, Pakistan has tried the ridiculous idea of using PAF for defence only, and attacking without air cover, both the times it failed miserably. I used it as an example to say how ridiculous the idea of having an AF for defence-only purposes is.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

RVV-AE-SD outranges everything else... including AIM120D

Mr Sandy 3126, I understand that you & Paks are going hot & heavy but Raytheon AMRAAM AIM-120 D / C-8 is currently being fully fledged out and the "true" range and Kill Zone are Classified. I doubt you got hold of that information.

I assure you in comparing systems being currently live-tested or deployed worldwide only Meteor is a serious contender. Let's deal in facts and not bluster. Range and accuracy are two different parameters you need to pay attention. Have a nice day.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

The question is why it will come closer???? Have you heard in last 30 years F15 did a close range fighting??? ...

First Gulf War; A Saudi F-15 was vectored onto a Iraqi mig's 6 by Sentry E3 and he took that out with an AIM-9 at WVR. But you are right I did not "hear" it.

 

[DARKY]

Actually.....did you??

You are exactly right about the first part......that your account of advantages of BARS was rough, indeed!

Would you ask me how the JF-17 starts its engines next????

It's apparent that neither of us is convinced by the other so lets just leave this argument! Otherwise I will continue to claim how JFT is actually a threat to MKI even 1 on 1 and you would continue to claim otherwise, no point really.

Again, lets just quit as I cannot repeat how much more direct access PAF has to SU-27's and SU-30's including those SU-30's that are closest to MKI's. I mean what else is there as PAF pilots have flown these Jets on multiple occasions unlike IAF that could have only looked at the F's on the ground and to spot the F's behind in the air!

Anyway, you eventually forced me to stoop to your level. I cannot compete with you at at your level though.

Oh yes hence the reply.

I am not the usual honey pot all PAF praise here you must realize before indulging.

I asked you a basic question that how does your JF-17 fire an AIM-120... you have been puking BS all over the thread and don't even have the reason... I recommend you the JF-17 information pool of this forum go and read the length and come back when you find If any JF-17 ever had Aim120 integrated with their radar.

Only a retard thinks JF-17 being equal to a Su30MKI... you beat even the fanboys on that.

And Here I say again... those Su27 and Su30s are no where near a Su30MKI that's something even the worst of the worst troll bots know here... only Su30MKM, Su30MKA and Su35 versions are close.
And I repeat the same thing once more... IAF pilots fly F-16block52 of Singapore AF every year they are in India and are evaluated with every new development on those jets.

I never went to any level...

 

[DARKY]

Mr Sandy 3126, I understand that you & Paks are going hot & heavy but Raytheon AMRAAM AIM-120 D / C-8 is currently being fully fledged out and the "true" range and Kill Zone are Classified. I doubt you got hold of that information.

I assure you in comparing systems being currently live-tested or deployed worldwide only Meteor is a serious contender. Let's deal in facts and not bluster. Range and accuracy are two different parameters you need to pay attention. Have a nice day.

It seems that you know about the RVV-SD very well for making such points ?

 

[Yeti]

How did they Fly? There is a lot of stuff on the subject in the newspapers and magazines about this airplane. There's a great video on youtube, where somebody shows the F-22 flying its demo, and the Su-30MK, side by side, and he does the exact same demonstration, as the F-22. And an airshow, then can do the same demonstration. The reality is, that's about as close as the airplanes ever get. When you compare it with US airplanes; where does it stand up against the F-16 and F-15, it's a tad bit better than we are. And that's pretty impressive, it has better radar, more thrust, vectored thrust, longer ranged weapons, so it's pretty impressive. The Sukhoi is a tad bit better (holds arm at chest level, and the other arm signifying the Sukhoi a wee bit higher). But now compare with the F-22 Raptor, the raptor is here. (holds palm way above his head - signifying that the aircraft is much better).

Red Flag 2008-4 : Lecture by USAF Col. Terrence Fornof


Su-30MKI has the edge even vs the F16/F15 (subject to the block)

 

[DARKY]

First Gulf War; A Saudi F-15 was vectored onto a Iraqi mig's 6 by Sentry E3 and he took that out with an AIM-9 at WVR. But you are right I did not "hear" it.

You talking of the war where about 2000+ 1st class AF was involved in a conflict with a 3rd class one with their top pilots and planes already fled to Iran and only about a 100 or so mix of downgraded mostly previous generation planes... devoid of any early warning and support and EW.

 

[Yeti]

In trials right? Could they have flown it more then PAF flights on SUs and Migs?

Even back in 2005 a 10-member IAF team flew the Thai F16's and carried out a technical assessment on the jets

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

There is just one problem with your post, pakistan signed an agreement with US saying that they cannot use f-16 as a tactical/interceptor against India and if they do US will terminate all future upgrades and spare parts.

FMS contract with Pakistan does not mention "India". The basis for your conjecture is US concern that Pakistan's Falcons may be deployed to a third country where they may be scrutinized closely for industrial espionage.......you can read that as China if you like. Paks are free to defend their airspace from aggression using these superb Vipers. In fact I recommend they go for a couple of squadrons of "V" configuration. I mean there is no harm in asking for AESA, AIM-120D, AIM-9X?

Who knows US may relent.

 

[Yeti]

IAF does have a weakness in that it no experience of flying, inspecting the JF-17 whereas PAF has flown the Sukhoi and being close to China has had a good look at their birds they know alot about them but we know very little of the JF-17.

Hope that China exports some to countries we have friendly relations with

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

You talking of the war where about 2000+ 1st class AF was involved in a conflict with a 3rd class one with their top pilots and planes already fled to Iran and only about a 100 or so mix of downgraded mostly previous generation planes... devoid of any early warning and support and EW.

The FORUM format only works if you pay "close" attention to the "context" of what is being posted.
One of your fellow countrymen had posed a rhetorically flamboyant question about a WVR mash-up by a "heavy fighter" in the last 30 years. I merely called him on that and supplied the counterpoint fact.

Other than that I thank you for your valued knowledge of airforce 'classifications', 'top/downgraded' pilots, and 'generation' of combat aircraft. Clearly key things to think about when in air-combat an American AMRAAM is seeking your rear end...............

 

[Black Widow]

The FORUM format only works if you pay "close" attention to the "context" of what is being posted.
One of your fellow countrymen had posed a rhetorically flamboyant question about a WVR mash-up by a "heavy fighter" in the last 30 years. I merely called him on that and supplied the counterpoint fact.

Other than that I thank you for your valued knowledge of airforce 'classifications', 'top/downgraded' pilots, and 'generation' of combat aircraft. Clearly key things to think about when in air-combat an American AMRAAM is seeking your rear end...............

Except some isolated Incident there are no incident that F15 allowed rivals to come closer.

The matter of fact is, you didn't read the entire context. ur countrymen put forward the theory that Heavy class fighters can be countered using MRCAs or point defense fighter in WVR, My argument was "Why Heavy fighter involve in WVR when they can wipe out rival from a long distance?"

For your "American AMRAAM" : During cold war, your teen countered MiG25, total 10 Missile exchanged (including American AMRAAM), without any kill. We all know what Iraqi MiGs were, They were outdated.

 

[TVVELVEMO$]

Except some isolated Incident there are no incident that F15 allowed rivals to come closer.

The matter of fact is, you didn't read the entire context. ur countrymen put forward the theory that Heavy class fighters can be countered using MRCAs or point defense fighter in WVR, My argument was "Why Heavy fighter involve in WVR when they can wipe out rival from a long distance?"

For your "American AMRAAM" : During cold war, your teen countered MiG25, total 10 Missile exchanged (including American AMRAAM), without any kill. We all know what Iraqi MiGs were, They were outdated.

First what is "HEAVY" class and how is it different from a MRCA? Do you think F-15 is a heavy class Or MRCA? >>>It is hard to argue with someone who uses arcane terms to win an argument.

You had asked a question:"The question is why it will come closer???? Have you heard in last 30 years F15 did a close range fighting??? .." Is that not your question? I supplied you with a fact that directly refutes your implication in the question. Is that not correct, now you want to dither into a ramblefest with no real direction. My POINT was that do not use bad arguments to support your contention.......BTW Have you read the book "The argumentative Indian" it is by an Indian before you get all prideful.

The BVR scenario you are using to scare the Paks was only applicable when in Kargil they had no BVR and you could shoot them at BVR ranges. Now they have rectified that deficiency. The ultra-long range "shoot & scoot" philosophy you are using was coined by USAF for F/A-22A Raptor armed with one of the best airborne Radars and AIM-120D\C-8. You keep impressing Paks that you can shoot & scoot without meeting any of their fighters.

The problem with that is your aircraft is NOT low-observable\stealth like Raptor. They will see it coming with their surveillance radars. You do not have AMRAAM 120D. Your Amraamski CAN be jammed. You may shoot and scoot. How will you know it hit anything? And lastly after a Flanky has shot his BVRAAM load and turns to exit.....is it not possible that a Pakistani fighter may scope him out as he extends back home? Is it NOT evenly remotely possible?

If these HEAVY fighters NEVER engage in WVR combat then you better let the RAF know 'cause they just put a video on TheAviationistdotCom showing 2 Typhoons (A HEAVY CLASS per your peculiar classification) successfully engaging 2 Turkish vipers (MRCA or point defence planes per you classificaton). Please let them know it is no longer a worthwhile endeavor!

And speaking of being contextually clued in....I have not seen any of my countrymen on this topic ...Please feel free to point them out to me....

Or next time when bragging about you weapon system just use accurate & cogent argument.

I could not make any sense of you last sentence about cold war and 10 exchanges. Do read up on PAF kills during First Afghan War, Israeli Viper kills over Bekaa, Sinai. Tomcats in Iran-Iraq war. Is that enough context for you?