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How Kashmir was stolen from Pakistan by Mountbatten

@Joe Shearer - This is not side effort because of any comments :P . I just support every actions of my country, we lost a lot of people for this freedom, and i don't think we can let some other people to decide our land future.
i saw below and damm this is not yelow.. this is just same kind of blackish.. you know we brown people does not matter how fair we are still these part :D ..

2nd lesson is imp... but i ll suggest you don't use color.. we are brown people can not change color :D

Effect, not effort; reading implies reading accurately.

Unlike us humble folk down in the undergrowth, attention-getters are chrome-yellow in the correct places. Look up Mandrill.

As for the second lesson, work for one line. One word would be better; the fact that such short sentences cannot be printed should not deter you. Just think of the vast improvement in quality you would have achieved single-handed.

@POST NO. 484> thanks for info.

You're welcome. I hope you meant me, though I don't know which bit of information stirred you into comment. You're welcome anyway.

Kashmir is just like one soap free on other soap for Pakistan , We can see how they sold part of their motherland to china for some political benefits now known as "Aksai Chin".

It wasn't part of Pakistan , and we don't sell our motherland.

I don't know if this is correct. The Pakistanis ceded the Shaksgam Valley. I'm not sure that it forms part of Aksai Chin.
 
It is useless,

Like some Brazilian movie dialogue went, the Peace in Kashmir hangs between the economic might of India & the lack of the same in Pakistan.
 
Wrong twice over. Are you trying for a record?

I explained this only a few days ago. Either you don't read very comfortably, or you don't want to believe what was explained there.

The Nawab acceded to Pakistan but he tried to drag along two states which were under his suzerainty, NOT his sovereignty, the city of Mangrol and the state of Babarwadia. They revolted against their being allowed to exercise their rights of accession to either Pakistan or India. The Nawab then sent his troops into those independent states. They appealed to India, which expelled Junagadhi troops from Mangrol and Babarwadia.

INDIAN TROOPS DID NOT ENTER JUNAGADH.

The Nawab left for Karachi. After a few days, the Dewan, whom he had left behind, REVOKED the accession and handed over the administration to the nearest Indian officer, who was not even present, and left for Karachi. The Indian administration then moved in, ran a plebiscite and normalized the situation.

Be sure to look up who the Dewan was.

About Kashmir, the UN Resolution required Pakistan to vacate her intrusion, including the intrusion of tribals, immediately. The Indians were requested to keep enough troops to maintain law and order, and the Plebiscite Commissioner identified by the Security Council, was to have been appointed by the State and to have run the plebiscite in every corner.

SINCE PAKISTAN REFUSED TO VACATE THEIR OCCUPIED TERRITORY, THE UN RESOLUTION COULD NOT BE MET.

Members of the forum will notice how often these half-digested facts emerge, and have to be explained patiently to the new-comer, almost every six months or so.



Please look up the correct facts, or refer to my summary.

There was a formal accession, there was a referendum because the accession was revoked by the state itself (by the Dewan, in the absence of the Nawab). Also for the sake of good order.


1.THE NAWAB NEVER FORMALLY ABDICATED.THE DEWAN HAD NO AUTHORITY LEGAL OR OTHERWISE TO REVOKE THE ACCESSION

Given The Fact That It Was Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto Who Persuaded The Nawab Of That Time To Accede To Pakistan I Even Doubt That His 'revocation' was without a pistol pointed at him

The Biographer Of Mountbatten Phillip Zeigler Wrote Regarding This Issue In Mountbatten Biography"Legally Pakistan Was In The Right"

2.INDIAN TROOPS DID NOT ENTER JUNAGADH:Seriously You Need To Get Your Eyes Tested


Indian integration of Junagadh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

@Karan Yes We Even Have Wikipedia At Our Madarsah LOL LOL LOL


3.The Authenticity Of The Accession Document To India By Hari Singh Is Highly Doubtful.You Want Details I Am Ready To Go Over There
 
1.THE NAWAB NEVER FORMALLY ABDICATED.THE DEWAN HAD NO AUTHORITY LEGAL OR OTHERWISE TO REVOKE THE ACCESSION

True, true. They both handed over power, the Nawab to his Dewan, his Dewan to an obscure Indian officer not even physically present, and both traipsed off to Karachi. So what was supposed to happen next, with everybody at Karachi and at the movies?

Given The Fact That It Was Sir Shah Nawaz Bhutto Who Persuaded The Nawab Of That Time To Accede To Pakistan I Even Doubt That His 'revocation' was without a pistol pointed at him

And this was the man caught in bed with a white man's mistress, with the Sahib ready to horsewhip him, who took the horsewhip away and flogged the Sahib instead! And you think he caved in to physical threats! Can't you think up a better one?

Who would have pointed a pistol at him? Read the Wiki extract.

The Biographer Of Mountbatten Phillip Zeigler Wrote Regarding This Issue In Mountbatten Biography"Legally Pakistan Was In The Right"

Of course Pakistan was! Just that true to Mountbatten's predictions, the Nawab lost his head and tried to bully two independents and got his wrist smacked. So he upped and ran, Bhutto found nobody else around, certainly nobody from Pakistan, and wrote to the unsuspecting Indian officer. That was precisely why Mountbatten had cautioned the Government of Pakistan to stick to contiguous territories; they would be easier to manage. It was precisely because of the lack of proximity that chaos broke out.

Something similar happened 23 years later.

2.INDIAN TROOPS DID NOT ENTER JUNAGADH:Seriously You Need To Get Your Eyes Tested


Indian integration of Junagadh - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

<sigh>

The kids are gettIng increasingly dumb these days.

See below (memo to myself: write immediately to the dimwit factory. They must cut back production; it's bad for the market).

On 8 November, Bhutto sent a letter to Nilam Butch, Provincial Head of the Indian Government in Rajkot, requesting him to help to restore law and order in Junagadh to prevent bloodshed. Harvey Johnson took the message to Rajkot. The head of the Indian administration telephoned V. P. Menon in Delhi and read out the letter. Menon immediately rushed to see Jawaharlal Nehru and explained the situation. After consultation with other ministers and V. B. Patel, the home minister, a formal order was drafted and a notification issued announcing the take-over of Junagadh at the request of its Chief Minister. The notification promised a referendum in due course.
Bhutto left Junagadh for Karachi on the night of 8 November 1947. On 9 November, the Indian Air Force flew several sorties at low level over Junagadh.[citation needed]

Soon columns of Indian tanks and other vehicles carrying Indian soldiers entered Junagadh state. At 6 p.m. on 9 November, Captain Harvey Johnson and Chief Secretary Gheewala, a civil servant of Junagadh state, formally handed over the charge of the State to the Indian Government.
On the same day, Nehru sent a telegram to Liaquat Ali Khan about the Indian take-over of Junagadh. Khan sent a return telegram to Nehru stating that Junagadh was Pakistani territory, and nobody except the Pakistan government was authorised to invite anybody to Junagadh. He also accused the Indian Government of naked aggression on Pakistan's territory and of violating international law. The Government of Pakistan strongly opposed the Indian occupation. Nehru wrote
In view of special circumstances pointed out by Junagadh Dewan that is the Prime Minister of Junagadh &#8211; our Regional Commissioner at Rajkot has taken temporarily charge of Junagadh administration. This has been done to avoid disorder and resulting chaos. We have, however, no desire to cont and wish to find a speedy solution in accordance with the wishes of the people of Junagadh. We have pointed out to you previously that final decision should be made by means of referendum or plebiscite. We would be glad to discuss this question and allied matters affecting Junagadh with representatives of your Government at the earliest possible moment convenient to you. We propose to invite Nawab of Junagadh to send his representatives to this conference.

@Karan Yes We Even Have Wikipedia At Our Madarsah LOL LOL LOL

Understandably you are delighted and pleased at this stirring development. Once they get around to teaching how to read it, do drop off a line for general information.
For your information, I first read the original text on these incidents about 52 years ago.


3.The Authenticity Of The Accession Document To India By Hari Singh Is Highly Doubtful.You Want Details I Am Ready To Go Over There

That settles it, then. Just send a peon over tomorrow, and he can take over from Omar Abdullah.
 
3.The Authenticity Of The Accession Document To India By Hari Singh Is Highly Doubtful.You Want Details I Am Ready To Go Over There


What is the Pakistan Version of Kashmir story??? Please educate us with proof. Don't Give some stupid logic.
 
real question is, what is Kashmir version

i think they made their version clear....by and large they reject indian footprint (blue print?)
 
real question is, what is Kashmir version

i think they made their version clear....by and large they reject indian footprint (blue print?)

Since you mentioned their attitude to India with such endearing candour, I hope you will also mention that they want no truck with Pakistan.

What is to be done about Gilgit and Baltistan, which were illegally absorbed into Pakistan?
 
real question is, what is Kashmir version

i think they made their version clear....by and large they reject indian footprint (blue print?)


There can't be any Kashmiri Version of story coz :

The actual division of British India between the two new dominions was accomplished according to what has come to be known as the 3 June Plan or Mountbatten Plan. It was announced at a press conference by Mountbatten on 3 June 1947, when the date of independence was also announced &#8211; 15 August 1947. The plan's main points were:
Hindus and Muslims in Punjab and Bengal legislative assemblies would meet and vote for partition. If a simple majority of either group wanted partition, then these provinces would be divided.
Sindh was to take its own decision.
The fate of North West Frontier Province and Sylhet district of Bengal was to be decided by a referendum.
India would be independent by 15 August 1947.
The separate independence of Bengal also ruled out.
A boundary commission to be set up in case of partition.
The Indian political leaders accepted the Plan on 2 June. It did not deal with the question of the princely states, but on 3 June Mountbatten advised them against remaining independent and urged them to join one of the two new dominions.[7]



There is no K word in the Partition plan...
 
If one looks at Nehru&#8217;s speech in the Lok Sabha on June 26, 1952, he said, &#8220;It just does not matter what your Constitution says. If the people of Kashmir do not want it, it will not go there.&#8221; If the plebiscite went against India, he would accept the verdict &#8220;and we would change our Constitution about it&#8221;. This he tells his people in the Lok Sabha.

However, the two faces of India were revealed in Nehru&#8217;s Note of August 25, 1952. He made a startling revelation about his change of mind by the end of 1948.

He wrote in a Note (Selected Works of Jawaharlal Nehru; volume 19, pages 322-330), &#8220;Towards the end of 1948&#8230;. it became clear to me then that we would never get the conditions which were necessary for a plebiscite&#8230; so I ruled out the plebiscite for all practical purposes.&#8221;

He was lying to his own people, he was lying to the Kashmiris and at the same time he was also lying to the United Nations as well as the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP) in December 1948.

The Note, Nehru wrote as some may call, was realpolitik. In that Note, he also mentioned that, Kashmiris &#8220;are not what are called a virile people. They are soft and addicted to easy living&#8221;; &#8220;We are superior to Pakistan in military and industrial power&#8221;; the U.N. is impotent. &#8220;Doubts in the minds of leaders percolate to their followers and to the people generally&#8230; What is required is a firm and clear outlook, and no debate about basic issues.&#8221;

Lieutenant-General B.M. Kaul in his book The Untold Story (1967), states that, Sheikh Abdullah understood the games being played by Nehru and India and was so disgusted that he decided to declare independence of Kashmir from India in 1949. He says, Bakshi and Dhar knew well in advance that Sheikh Saheb was going there &#8220;in a few days&#8217; time to meet certain &#8216;friends&#8217; from across the border which was only seven miles away&#8221;. He would then arrest Bakshi, Dhar etc and declare Kashmir independent (page 143). Though many Indians do not agree with his version of events. But it makes one thing very very clear, the Indian double face became quite apparent even to Sheikh Abdullah.

What Nehru then and India even now does not realize that it is the people who move and transform their leaders&#8217; opinion and not the other way around. Sheikh Abdullah couldn&#8217;t go against the will of Kashmirirs. Sheikh Abduallah remained a leader of Kashmiris as long as he voiced their feelings. Nehru expected that Sheikh Abdullah would be able to change the opinion of Kashmiri people, which he couldn&#8217;t.

Sheikh Abdullah turned a Becket to Jawaharlal Nehru&#8217;s Henry II. He was thus arrested and put in jail for next 11 years.

In Nehru efforts to cheat the whole world, least did he realize that he was wrong and left a legacy, where we still stand at that moment in 1947, where Kashmir still remains unsolved even after 60 years of Indian efforts to retain it, even after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and to what end!

The same kind of policy followed by Indians elsewhere in India and resultantly, North East India is also in flames, the Naxals have risen against their own government, the Dalits are still untouchables except a few who have become a bit powerful and minorities are killed with impunity to tell them as to who rules India &#8211; the majority Hindus. How many more will the Hindu rulers of India kill to keep India together as a so-called multi-ethnic/religious Union.

The Muslims were and are being killed to avenge the creation of Pakistan and the Sikhs were paid in kind for willfully joining India (their holiest shrine was destroyed. Over 3000 were killed in Delhi alone in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi&#8217;s murder). People of North East are being persecuted, oppressed and killed for seeking freedom. Muslims of North India are being killed after being wrongfully declared as being illegal Bangladeshi immigrants.

How long this continued oppression and killing will keep India together?
 
If one looks at Nehru&#8217;s speech in the Lok Sabha on June 26, 1952, he said, &#8220;It just does not matter what your Constitution says. If the people of Kashmir do not want it, it will not go there.&#8221; If the plebiscite went against India, he would accept the verdict &#8220;and we would change our Constitution about it&#8221;. This he tells his people in the Lok Sabha.

However, the two faces of India were revealed in Nehru&#8217;s Note of August 25, 1952. He made a startling revelation about his change of mind by the end of 1948.

He wrote in a Note (Selected Works of Jawaharlal Nehru; volume 19, pages 322-330), &#8220;Towards the end of 1948&#8230;. it became clear to me then that we would never get the conditions which were necessary for a plebiscite&#8230; so I ruled out the plebiscite for all practical purposes.&#8221;

He was lying to his own people, he was lying to the Kashmiris and at the same time he was also lying to the United Nations as well as the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan (UNCIP) in December 1948.

The Note, Nehru wrote as some may call, was realpolitik. In that Note, he also mentioned that, Kashmiris &#8220;are not what are called a virile people. They are soft and addicted to easy living&#8221;; &#8220;We are superior to Pakistan in military and industrial power&#8221;; the U.N. is impotent. &#8220;Doubts in the minds of leaders percolate to their followers and to the people generally&#8230; What is required is a firm and clear outlook, and no debate about basic issues.&#8221;

Lieutenant-General B.M. Kaul in his book The Untold Story (1967), states that, Sheikh Abdullah understood the games being played by Nehru and India and was so disgusted that he decided to declare independence of Kashmir from India in 1949. He says, Bakshi and Dhar knew well in advance that Sheikh Saheb was going there &#8220;in a few days&#8217; time to meet certain &#8216;friends&#8217; from across the border which was only seven miles away&#8221;. He would then arrest Bakshi, Dhar etc and declare Kashmir independent (page 143). Though many Indians do not agree with his version of events. But it makes one thing very very clear, the Indian double face became quite apparent even to Sheikh Abdullah.

What Nehru then and India even now does not realize that it is the people who move and transform their leaders&#8217; opinion and not the other way around. Sheikh Abdullah couldn&#8217;t go against the will of Kashmirirs. Sheikh Abduallah remained a leader of Kashmiris as long as he voiced their feelings. Nehru expected that Sheikh Abdullah would be able to change the opinion of Kashmiri people, which he couldn&#8217;t.

Sheikh Abdullah turned a Becket to Jawaharlal Nehru&#8217;s Henry II. He was thus arrested and put in jail for next 11 years.

In Nehru efforts to cheat the whole world, least did he realize that he was wrong and left a legacy, where we still stand at that moment in 1947, where Kashmir still remains unsolved even after 60 years of Indian efforts to retain it, even after the deaths of hundreds of thousands of innocent people and to what end!

The same kind of policy followed by Indians elsewhere in India and resultantly, North East India is also in flames, the Naxals have risen against their own government, the Dalits are still untouchables except a few who have become a bit powerful and minorities are killed with impunity to tell them as to who rules India &#8211; the majority Hindus. How many more will the Hindu rulers of India kill to keep India together as a so-called multi-ethnic/religious Union.

The Muslims were and are being killed to revenge the creation of Pakistan and the Sikhs were paid in kind for willfully joining India (their holiest shrine was destroyed. Over 3000 were killed in Delhi alone in the aftermath of Indira Gandhi&#8217;s murder). People of North East are being persecuted, oppressed and killed for seeking freedom. Muslims of North India are being killed for being illegal Bangladeshi immigrants.

How long this continued oppression and killing will keep India together?



We don't believe in Nehru. If you believe in Him, please go and ask him. We have changed our policy in last 50 years.


@ Plebiscite: Why don't you read terms and conditions of plebiscite. First full fill those conditions then talk bout plebiscite .
 
^^Copy - paste from your text book? It seems so.
 
Since you mentioned their attitude to India with such endearing candour, I hope you will also mention that they want no truck with Pakistan.

What is to be done about Gilgit and Baltistan, which were illegally absorbed into Pakistan?

are you for real? ive spent much time over there when i was either on home leave or had time off and let me tell you that the people there are almost more pro-Pakistan than any others. I have some ancestral origins from maternal side hailing from Kashmir and im in regular touch with close friends on the 'other side'

it's true that across the LoC opinions are mixed but by and large there's a consensus that india is an illegitimate occupier and this is an indisputable fact. You can deny, whitewash, or even sandblast and powdercoat it -- but it wont change ground realities

ive already been through this in great detail sooo many times so i wont delve further

truth hurts though
 
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