How Islamicised is the Pakistan army?

[ajpirzada]

We have many many of our own great scholars why would we need to refer to a non Muslim to teach us our deen?



No secularism is a kufr concept, in Islam there is no separation of the state and the deen,the governance (hukm) is for Allah.





Yes Islam allows non Muslims to live peacefully within the Islamic state and they are afforded protection of their properties etc.



Non Muslims are not obliged to pray under Islamic rule and they are not forced to accept Islam because Allah the most high states that "there is no compulsion in religion" this is for the non Muslim.

A for the Muslims then yes they are obliged to offer the five daily prayers and there is a severe punishment for those who do not, the four schools of Islamic jurisprudence are in agreement about this.



Yes drinking, gambling etc do have a negative effect on society but that is not the primary reason that we abstain from such activities,these are merely secondary reasons, the primary reason is because Allah made such actions Haram and we as Muslims submit to the will of Allah.That is also the reason we fulfill our obligations.

its really depends on how u define secularism. if it means freedom with responsibility then its not kufr.
secondly i used the word force and not insist. islam does not force anyone to offer his prayers. but it does insist u. there is a big difference bw the two.
surely Allah has told us to not get ourselves involved in drinking gambling or adultry. but u should always understand the reason behind that. Allah never tells u to do something just for the sake of it. in islam reason given for not drinkin is that its negatives are more than its positives. now if reasonin is not important then y would there be one in islam.

 

[ajpirzada]

only muslim can go to the two holy places of islam. now how would anyone come to know that u r a muslim if its not written on ur passport? it does make sense to ask u of ur religion in ur passport.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

some of you people are real confused.....you think secularism means atheism.

The more I read from some of you guys, the more I cringe.


Because you dont even know what you're talking about.

 

[Durran3]

only muslim can go to the two holy places of islam. now how would anyone come to know that u r a muslim if its not written on ur passport? it does make sense to ask u of ur religion in ur passport.

Thats no reason what so ever.. Muslims all over the world go for Hajj without any problems what so ever even those who don't have Pakistani Passports, American Muslims, Canadian Muslims, European Muslims, Turkish, far east muslims etc.. I am not against saying Islam on the passport thats fine i am just against the decleration form which is pure bullocks

 

[waraich66]

thats true and that is often what i argue.....

Of course it allows freedom and tolerance.......which is why Army must destroy the people who say 'hindu' or 'shiia' are kaffir and the people who are bombing our Mosques and civilian institutions

Please correct you concept about responsibilities of army.All civilized nation dont use army againt their own people.

Our security forces remain weak due to miltery dictatorship and corrupt politicians otherwise the story will be different.

In Pakistan our institutions are weak but our war lords,wadera are strong.

We know special permit always issued to all MNA and MPA , if every body has kalashankov then it is impossible for security forces to restore peace.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Please correct you concept about responsibilities of army.All civilized nation dont use army againt their own people.

Our security forces remain weak due to miltery dictatorship and corrupt politicians otherwise the story will be different.

In Pakistan our institutions are weak but our war lords,wadera are strong.

We know special permit always issued to all MNA and MPA , if every body has kalashankov then it is impossible for security forces to restore peace.

oh sure!!! you're right.


Lets let these people:

-bomb our Mosques
-bomb our hotels
-bomb girl's schools (promote ignorance)
-scare away any remaining investors we have in this country
-say that Shiia or other Islamic sects are "not Muslims" (only they are "true Muslims according to them)
-terrorize the local populations
-bring HUMILIATION to Pakistan


are u a sympathizer of taleban? Because if you are, then not only are u confused -- brother.....but you are also a traitor



but Allah SWT is first and last judge. But if you want my opinion, there ya go I have given it to you.




responsibility of Army is to promote and fight for the defence interests of Pakistan. And when we have people sending trucks packed with explosives into my cities and terrorizing the people of NWFP and other areas of Pakistan, you can be damn sure it is Army job to neutralize them.


don't be in denial. At this point, ALL Pakistanis should be united to CRUSH taleban politically and militarily. We should all arm ourselves (responsibly)








p.s. even the Ulema is united against taleban now.

 

[Durran3]

don't be in denial. At this point, ALL Pakistanis should be united to CRUSH taleban politically and militarily. We should all arm ourselves (responsibly)

I agree with all you've said except the last part.. The Gun culture is a terrible thing and fairly dangerous. Being a resident of Peshawar and NWFP the Gun culture does not increase security infact it decreases it by a fairly large margin. Look how freely guns are available in the tribal areas and those are the areas with the most violence.... Go to Texas in the US, same crap. Its easy for us to say we should all have guns and use them 'Responsibily' but you and i both know that the people in pakistan play more on emotional grounds than rational ones.

Guns in houses should be banned for the greater well being of citizens.. but than again when you think about it i guess its probably mandatory to own something incase the Taliban hop into your house

 

[ajpirzada]

Please correct you concept about responsibilities of army.All civilized nation dont use army againt their own people.

Our security forces remain weak due to miltery dictatorship and corrupt politicians otherwise the story will be different.

In Pakistan our institutions are weak but our war lords,wadera are strong.

We know special permit always issued to all MNA and MPA , if every body has kalashankov then it is impossible for security forces to restore peace.

if ppl of that country start creatin problems then yes you are allowed to fight them. no where in islam does it stop you from doin so. rather in shariah there is a death punishment for those who create anarchy within state.

agreed that our institutions are weak and there is a lot of corruption in our society. but that does not mean we should let talibans flogg our sisters infront of everyone or let them blow up schools etc. give me one reason y should we not fight TTP?

 

[Conscientious objector]

its really depends on how u define secularism.

Well lets see how the Webster dictionary defines secularism shall we?

Secularism is defined in the Webster dictionary as: "A system of doctrines and practices that rejects any form of religious faith and worship" or "The belief that religion and ecclesiastical affairs should not enter into the function of the state especially into public education."

if it means freedom with responsibility then its not kufr.

Where have you taken this definition from?

secondly i used the word force and not insist. islam does not force anyone to offer his prayers. but it does insist u. there is a big difference bw the two.

I think your just getting into semantics here,can you elaborate as to what exactly you see as being the difference? Regardless of which word one uses to describe the Islamic position on enforcing the salah (as well as other farahid) the fact remains that the punishment in the sharia for the one who purposefully neglects his prayers and continues to do so even after having been brought before an Islamic court is death.

The mere fact that one would be arrested and brought before a Qadhi for not praying makes it clear that in an Islamic state the obligations(as to whether one fulfills them or not) are not left to the individuals discretion.

surely Allah has told us to not get ourselves involved in drinking gambling or adultry. but u should always understand the reason behind that. Allah never tells u to do something just for the sake of it. in islam reason given for not drinkin is that its negatives are more than its positives. now if reasonin is not important then y would there be one in islam.

You seem to have a bad habit of misunderstanding clear statements. I have not suggested that the reasons for the rulings (ahkam) are not important.My point was that the PRIMARY reasons for our acting in accordance with them was to submit our will to that of our creator, regardless of whether we understand the reasons for revelation or not.Please try to understand my point

We do not put our reasoning/intellect (aql) over and above the texts (naql), we hear and we obey.



.

 

[Durran3]

We do not put our reasoning/intellect (aql) over and above the texts (naql), we hear and we obey.

By far the WORST LINE that i have ever heard in my life.. People like you are the reason the Muslim world is in the Tank.. Shutting your brain is the worst form of tyrany you can bring upon yourself, freedom of conscience is a gift that all humans have the ability to use and depriving yourself of something so precious is far worse than Death... I pity you..

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

maybe one day i can tell you what taleban thugs tried to do in my village.

Taleban have never been safe in Kurram Agency because we keep arms in our house. Every time they approached Parachinar we either called the Kurram Militia and reported strangers/foreigners, or we dropped our food and grabbed our weapons and shot at them.

the only way to get a job done right in this world is to do it yourself.

i look forward to the day we can surrender our arms (and by the way, unlike most people in NWFP, ours are 100% registered firearms) --and live in peace

when the last taleban is dead, and there is peace and development in FATA --then yes we will drop our guns. Until then, **** that ****.


taleban always tried to disturb the peace and succeeded in bastardizing secular Pashtun culture. Enough is enough. The barrels will be red-hot from non-stop gunfire until every last taleb is cleansed from our land.



dont believe me? Come to Parachinar and enjoy our hospitality. You will see what happens -- especially in Lower Kurram where talebs tried to enter =)

 

[Durran3]

maybe one day i can tell you what taleban thugs tried to do in my village.

Taleban have never been safe in Kurram Agency because we keep arms in our house. Every time they approached Parachinar we either called the Kurram Militia and reported strangers/foreigners, or we dropped our food and grabbed our weapons and shot at them.

the only way to get a job done right in this world is to do it yourself.

i look forward to the day we can surrender our arms (and by the way, unlike most people in NWFP, ours are 100% registered firearms) --and live in peace

when the last taleban is dead, and there is peace and development in FATA --then yes we will drop our guns. Until then, **** that ****.


taleban always tried to disturb the peace and succeeded in bastardizing secular Pashtun culture. Enough is enough. The barrels will be red-hot from non-stop gunfire until every last taleb is cleansed from our land.



dont believe me? Come to Parachinar and enjoy our hospitality. You will see what happens -- especially in Lower Kurram where talebs tried to enter =)

lol fair enough!! Hopefully if i ever come to Parachina i will definately let you know

 

[Major Arif Khan]

Well Salam to all of you.....
But i could not understand that what u people are talking about.......
discussing about the ISLAM or how our how ARMY ISLAMISIED in PAKISTAN....

if its about islam then we have to leave this topic bcoz we are not ULMA... and we cannot discuss Islam without the aurthorized reason and......

if its about ARMY that how much ISLAMISIED the PAKISTAN ARMY... so that is ISLAMISIED bcoz we are MUSLIMS and also prode to be PAKISTAN and part of the ISLAMISED ARMY in the world....... thank you all

 

[waraich66]

if ppl of that country start creatin problems then yes you are allowed to fight them. no where in islam does it stop you from doin so. rather in shariah there is a death punishment for those who create anarchy within state.

agreed that our institutions are weak and there is a lot of corruption in our society. but that does not mean we should let talibans flogg our sisters infront of everyone or let them blow up schools etc. give me one reason y should we not fight TTP?

Roukna hai tu barash ko rouko
Mitee to mahky gi yeh ush ki hai majburi,

My brother,

We can not eliminate the crime from our soil from terrorism untill we kill the reason for crime and terrorism , that is reason islamic punishment can not be implemented in society where shariah is not prevailing.

I hope you understand my point , we need to start operation rahi rast from top to bottom ,but we are doing reverse, our leaders are corrupt and planted by western powers , they dont have roots in our soil , when ever they want make agreement with talaban and then where is their claim goes that they are terrorist and after few days they again ordered our miltery flush them , why they dont have one stand on national security , if some body is declared terrorist he should not be involved in peace deal,it is againt our constitution.
They are actually playing with nation and our constitution,nation should first do jehad againts these leaders.

 

[waraich66]

oh sure!!! you're right.


Lets let these people:

-bomb our Mosques
-bomb our hotels
-bomb girl's schools (promote ignorance)
-scare away any remaining investors we have in this country
-say that Shiia or other Islamic sects are "not Muslims" (only they are "true Muslims according to them)
-terrorize the local populations
-bring HUMILIATION to Pakistan


are u a sympathizer of taleban? Because if you are, then not only are u confused -- brother.....but you are also a traitor



but Allah SWT is first and last judge. But if you want my opinion, there ya go I have given it to you.




responsibility of Army is to promote and fight for the defence interests of Pakistan. And when we have people sending trucks packed with explosives into my cities and terrorizing the people of NWFP and other areas of Pakistan, you can be damn sure it is Army job to neutralize them.


don't be in denial. At this point, ALL Pakistanis should be united to CRUSH taleban politically and militarily. We should all arm ourselves (responsibly)








p.s. even the Ulema is united against taleban now.

I suggest you come out of shia and sunni , we are all muslim ,Allah SWT named us muslim , we should not insult us from calling us shia ,suni,bralvi,deobandi .

Secondly there is no talaban movement in pakistan ,basically few local trible war lord are being used by our external enemies.

Main problem is our nukes they feel danger from these weapon of mass distruction and think that these talaban may get these nukes and could be used againt them,

So i think they are spending money on these terrorist named talaban TTP to creat kiosk in Pakistan and weaken our defence and divide our nation.