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How good are the SSG's

I think he is referring to Airborne Africa. SSG fared well. They came in 4th overall among the 20 teams in their first ever entry in this competition. Indians came in second (but it was also their return event). The hosts (South Africans) came in first.

In terms of desert warfare, I can say this with certainty that the SSG produces operators as good as any other SF outfit in the world. Same goes for High Altitude warfare. The key is their employment. If you don't use them properly then you can't blame the training.
 
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No no, I am not mistaken. I was talking about the Indian NSG in Akshardham temple, which can also be compared to LM case.

Also the NSG has a state-of-the-art training facility in which they have to shoot atleast 6 of 10 swift moving targets in a dark building like structure which replicates a real anti-terrorist operation. This is so difficult that till date no-one has ever got 10 targets. Also this includes, two NSG guards shooting targets, just adjacent to the other guy. This makes them get used to bullets flying right under their noses.

But NSG have never been misused for military operations.

Admin Warning: Keep the flamebaits to yourself!

My friend,

SSG has had kill houses similar to what you describe since at least 90 or so (its something that all modern CT teams have). The CT team of the SSG has had many many employments and most of these employments have been successful (the only failure actually was the PANAM flight in Karachi where the terrorists opened fire before the SSG team could execute on its dynamic entry).

Both in terms of size and scope, you cannot compare LM to Akshardham incident. As I have said before, compare it with Op. Bluestar against the Golden Temple. SSG performed better at LM from any point of view compared to the performance of the Indian Army Para Commandos @ GT.

SSG has never lost as many operators in any single operation as the IA did during the Op Bluestar:

the Indian Army suffered 83 deaths, which included four officers, four Junior Commissioned Officers and 75 other ranks. As per the affidavit, 13 Indian Army officers, 16 JCOs and 220 other ranks were injured in the operation.
 
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Astra,

I am not sure how you can compare two terrorists walking into a temple and taking a few dozen people hostage, with almost a hundred militants and almost equal number of hostages, who lived in and prepared a complex for an impending assault by security forces.
 
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it is quite clear that there cannot be a clear rating given to such an unclear criteria....

they can be rated by the people here...(subjectively, ratings which will either draw out patriotism or comparision with indian agencies)

or you can compare them to other agencies in similar situation and ask the people to rank them or assess them then.. (though the dissimilarities of situations would again make these ratings arbittrary + error from above will also count)

or you can carry out an extensive survey research by asking relevant people and then rank them comparitively to other comparable agencies (preferably by detailing situations as well) from around the world to come at the answer you are looking for (a task more challenging than climbing the mount everest unassisted, w/o oxygen etc.. )


PS: my answer they are bloody good.. (and so are the Indian NSG's, American Navy Seals, British SAS etc.. if anyone wants my opinion on them)...
 
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how are the ssg wen it comes to jungle warfare? pakistan has some forrests that they may be able to train in, but have the ssg ever gone to the amazon or african jungle for training exercise purposes. terrain like what you would see in something like 'tears of the sun.'?
 
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how are the ssg wen it comes to jungle warfare? pakistan has some forrests that they may be able to train in, but have the ssg ever gone to the amazon or african jungle for training exercise purposes. terrain like what you would see in something like 'tears of the sun.'?

Why would the SSG train in jungle warfare when there is no scope for it within Pakistan?
 
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Blain wrote
Why would the SSG train in jungle warfare when there is no scope for it within Pakistan?
Correct me if i am wrong blain but doesnt the ssg perform recon pathfinding type missions for the pak army when they are deployed on UN duty. I heard the ssg was present in congo , that place is full of jungle type terrain.
 
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Blain wrote
Correct me if i am wrong blain but doesnt the ssg perform recon pathfinding type missions for the pak army when they are deployed on UN duty. I heard the ssg was present in congo , that place is full of jungle type terrain.

They do but that is one aspect and certainly not a great aspect of their operational scope. The primary role of the SSG remains the ability to quickly deploy and effectively operate anywhere inside of Pakistan. If the role of the SSG becomes somewhat strategic then dedicated facilities etc. may become a real need for this type of training. Within the limited scope of jungle warfare in Pakistan, we have been sending our officers from the SSG to the Jungle warfare school in Malaysia (which by any means is one of the best ones in the world attended by SF cadres from all over the world).
 
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Blain 2. The way it sounds to me is that the Co's in SSG needs to be trained to give right directives to Jr's. Once done, than there will be a smooth sailing. I know some Off's and they seem to be of right caliber. There seems to be a problem somewhere in between. But, where?
Our guys are good, rough and tough and can handle any situation.
 
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and the ssg these casualties also took place cause police personnel and rangers spec op teams were with the ssg.. and that cud have hindered them
 
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This is a crap that SSG are good.

Let me tell you guys first that i m a patriotic pakistani and i love pakistan as every **** do but there's been always a cloud of fog putted in our eyes by our intelligence agencies and pakistan army.

Let me tell you very straigh SSG are crap in advance warefare and military tactics they are like far far behind. Nowadays things have changed we do not need a bunch of pahalwaans because we are not going to put them into wrestling ( thats what actually ssg are ) but knowledge, advance and latest equipment, training and advance war-fare tactics are what needed into a force like SSG but SSG got none of those.

Lal Masjid is the latest operation of SSG so i will start from that i have seen my many buddies saying Lal Masjid was a success ? lol most funiest thing i have ever heard i will completly examine it from a mility point of view not political to show how crap actually our SSG are.

I will describe it step by step as its done in proffesional military forces.

Scenario.

1. A wide complex located inside of your capital of the country. ( please note it wasnt located in any offshore country where ssg has to perform action via their paratroopers ).A structure with very complex architecture with different rooms, balkonys and passages. ( please note that Lal Masjid was a center of keeping trained mujahidins in USSR war and was operational under ISI, So it was not those kids who built all that complex structure and morchas but Pakistan Army them selves back in USSR war).

2. From my above point SSG got a very good overview about the building inner structure, where passages are, where rooms are, how they are built yet ofcorse now frm inside they can not tell SSG that hey guys let us tell you our positions as well that where we got our machine gun or where we are setting with RPG ofcorse nowhere it happens that the enemy give you description on his position as well.

3. You got hold of all the surrounding buildings ( please guys note that in any military operation this thing counts very much that do you have the surroundings under your control or not specially surrounding buildings ), SSG can put snipers on around rooftops and trees in camflouge to get more assistant in their operation ( lol where our SSG even dont have a sniper unit in it which is backbone of each military force since world war 2 lol ).

4. 200 armed ppl with 80 ak-47, 20 machine guns, 5 Rocket launchers. ( Please note that this figure is an accurate assumption of the weaponary inside which Pak Army should have got b4 the operation, United State Marine Corp Tactical And Stratigical Command got that figure b4 1 day of the operation by SSG ).

5. Warfare knowledge and skills of the enemy. ( Please note that this is a very important thing during any military operation as well ). Only 5 people inside came frm afghanistan/kaghagistan who had war experience b4 one of them was a very renowed commander fought against USSR as well as USA raide on afghanistan. So they got a good commander who got some real war experience with 4 more war experienced guys ( please note that those are not any proffesionals as well, us army is handeling them very well in afghanistan during live combats as they r not a trained army however they got war experience which also counts 70 percent in a soldier skills , SSG got this zero ). With 195 young guys average age ranging from 15 to 24, 90 percent of them learned that day how to fire a gun.

Points and Facts from scenario.

You got the time, its in your own country ( capital ) no far offshore place where you have to operate, SSG got a very good know how of the inner structure of the building, SSG were completly aware of what they will face in terms of enemies number and weaponary. Under all these situations give this to seals they 'll smoke another cigrate and will say peace of cake.

The Operation.

1. I will not go in details of how operation was done you all know it, and millions watch around the world and all the armies of the world also laughed on one of the most foolish and shameful military action after kargil war. Pakistan army got reward of both of these.

2. I will go what mistakes were. During any military operation like that speed is always the key, you have to act before enemy thinks, if you will put in a way that you both are getting pinned with each other firing thats what happens in full scale wars and in open areas not in operations like this. Speed is always the key, you have to keep moving, keep clearing, you have to act fast keep the guard up, do not let them understand whats happening, do not let them plan or restablish them self, get a smoke gernade in yur hand put that in and move fast with yur night vision googles on, 2 man stands at the door in sitting position to give the cover fire other 2 wil go on Only 4 are enough a total of maximum 15 ppl is used for operations like this.

3. Take the cover keep moving in, your objective is to safe as many unarmed ppl as you can and also get alive as many armed ppl as you can, your purpose is to safe lifes. So as i desribed above when 2 'll go in you will face approximatly 2 ppl at each position wat they do was that they act a it should be ( credit goes to that kazik commander he planned it absloutly classic cuz he fought against 2 world powers, he craps up the SSG even with kids and very few armory and under most hard circuim stances that a commander can have , he got no trained army , he was inside the enemy heart , he got no back up still i appreciate his warfare skills how he manage it all ) so he also put with his rocket launcher guys in the tower ( thats how SSG should put snipers around the building tops or in helicopters taking positions around the complex ). So what he told them was, you guys fire at them, then you will come bak to your previous position, then u sit there keep them pinned and fire at them and after holding them there a bit again move back thats how he marks positions show every guy the way what he got to do n how to fire, and they did it bravely they showed SSG how true warriors can fight even if they got minimum of resources and under worst circuimstances. On the otherside SSG were like bulls, bunch of pahalwans going in with no knowledge of how actual wars happen, they just got trained by their lame officers, inside of their hearts they were afraid. They do throw bombs in every room and when they makes it clear that now bomb has finished everyone inside then those cowards move in one room and then throw bombs in other and then fire. They dont got the hearts to move in like a proffesional military forces guys do, they were not trained properly for it. So they sit in the door n window n keep firing frm there keepin them selfes in proper cover untill they get asured now there's no one left alive in this room ( please guys remember my previous details too, speed is the key to the operations like this, your objective always is to safe as many lifes as you can ).

4. Operation like this should take maximum of 2 hours but the time it took its infront of you all. Credit goes go that commander, his tactical skills, bravery and warfare planning. Let me tell you a true warrior always respect his enemies and united states marine corp tactical and stratgical command gives full honour to him and respect the talibans fighting in afghanistan as they are a brave and very good enemy, without any resources, proffesional training they are the best warriors and one of their commander shows that in lal masjid too. So us army respects them.

5. SSG looses 12 ppl around 60 was the total loose of Pakistan forces under all these circuim stances, in their own homeland in their capital from few emotional and brave kids with very less weaponary and shortage of bullets.

Punjab police was entered into that position just because in heart they are more brave then SSG.

I would just clap for SSG wow what a successful operation my many buddies here claiming. Let me tell you all who thinks with their head not what ISI and pakistan army tolds them guys we lost more ppl in karghil then 1965 war it was not their sin it was another world's most foolish military act in techinical terms i will try to write an detailed article on that too. We left our ppl there, on the mountains in the hands of enemy, we left our injured brothers there without any backup or food supplies we left them over there only because we were afraid to die, because indians took the top positions and our ppl were crying in pain and hunger downside and were hoping pak army will come but nop they did'nt go to pick them up unless nawaz sharif goes to us to help out n stop it and then to hide their shame what pakistan army did putting musharaf infront you all know.

Now again in lal masjid the real face of SSG and pak army has shown i said untill how many days you guys will keep making awam of pakistan fool ? untill how many days ppl starve to death and pakistan army generals and officials will have their couple dance parties with girls and bear ? untill how many days our business man will cry out for financial problems and pak army will keep eating our bugdet. Look at these dumphead facilities, look at their living areas, look at their benefits and parties is this a army of a country where ppl have to get in line and pray they get food today ?

History shows it a warrior should be a warrior if u give him love of life he definatly will become taking interist in life which a soldier should not, These ppl sleep on bed metrices of the world where britney spears sleeps ? can they fight ? lol u all get better idea and results show.

Afterwards things.

Why no media was let into the building ? about 1000 humans were inside the building b4 the operation begin how many survivors ? Why all the building was dumped ? to show your cowardice SSG ? to hide how you kill innocent people too inside ? to show how much dump you are ?

Results.

Pakistan Army this time is one of the world's most dump army in terms of tactical, bravery and skills factor.

SSG is a pure crap, They should go to dhangals in Punjab villages rather then performing as sensitive matter as military operations are.

Lal masjid shows what you are , Karghal showed what you are, 1972 when over 1 lakh armed **** army guy surrendered worst example in world's war history. Can you guys give me a example of a single even just 1 us army or marine corp guy ? who ever puts his gun down and say i surrender, In afghanistan talibans are respected warriors they will get killed fighting which is the honour of every warrior but will not surrender.

****-Army how long will you sleep in yur comfortable beds on our money and have fashionable lifes with girls, charm and wine. How long will you keep using your power where you can only use it on people like me on civilians, on proffesors of lums lol wow clap for you wow i m scared of u dumps you should be proud how good army u r cuz i am 21 year old guy scared of u, that u can kidnapp me or even kill me lol hell with u, thats wat all u can do everybody just take a look at the facts not wat ISI forces media to tell, look at your previous 10 years with a mind free of their dump fantasy n lies look at the facts have i said a single thing wrong ? tell me without threatning civilians who got no fire arm or anything what our army has achieved ? in lal masjid u see SSG in karghil u have seen them.

You all got to die oneday of which you are scared off mark my words today. I am a warrior and i love my country dosent means i hate you guys that i dont love my country i love pakistan but i am a soldier too and a good death is always what i hopes off a death like of those warriors in Lal mask, a death like of captain joe in afghanistan there are many other warriors whom like death i do wish. But mark my words ALLAH see all, you all got to pay off for each n every innocent u kill in yur cowardice, for each n every home u kidnapp ppl from n handled them to cia, for each n every yur own low rank guys who got no other way then follow yur bullshit orders, For every starve man in pakistan and you drink bear of money which is more then his whole month income. Do watever u could this world is nothing just a image i dont give a damn to it, but in eternal life u'll get to pay for all this remember. Or may be ALLAH will give u wat u deserve in the hand of us army if u not keep kissing the knees of cia.

Love my Pakistan, Love my all people.

From a patriot ..
 
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borntodie,

Your so biased that your post holds no credibility. It is "your" opinion based on your personal beliefs (as well as political judgement) and actions.
 
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I would have responded but decided not to as I cannot even understand more than half the post. In the end, like all, Mr. Borntodie you are entitled to your opinions. Lets just not consider them to be the facts as they are very far from being facts.

Also one last thing, if you claim yourself to be a "patriot" then learn the facts about your own countrymen instead of getting on an international forum and lambasting them without any knowledge whatsoever about the LM operation or Kargil or any of those conducted before by the SSG.
 
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i dont got any damn thing to do with your ssg or army neither i have time i m out a here ..
 
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