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How do people view Islamic organizations in Pakistan from the outside

Just give it some time. This cancer will grow and destroy civil society, or what is left of it.



Actually, I have no provided any prescription at all. To what do you refer?

When you stand in opposition to religiosity, openly saying that it is a path to extremism, it is not at all difficult to guess what you are implying.

But knowing you, another slick teflon argument is coming in 5...4...3...2...1...
 
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Again anything against Quran and Sunnat as for modernity most of them use internet they use latest gadgets but yes they don't go crazy running around naked they do opposite they cover themselves and encourage others and preach them to cover themselves and that is what Islam teaches many of them also drive cars and completely Islamic Man come up with points which are not according to Islam @Chak Bamu @Akheilos

Yes, so far so good. The next step, which follow inevitably, is radicalization from this foundation. That is the danger. Once this process starts, there is no stopping it.

When you stand in opposition to religiosity, openly saying that it is a path to extremism, it is not at all difficult to guess what you are implying.

But knowing you, another slick teflon argument is coming in 5...4...3...2...1...

I am not implying anything. I am CLEARLY stating that this religiosity is a slippery slope down to hell for Pakistan.
 
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I cannot say it better than what has already been said:

"The organization in question isn't preaching violence or extremism , no , the trouble arises with them asking the women ( who are themselves choosing to allow them into their house of course ) to reject the common societal and cultural practices and the modernity and all things Western have always been forbidden for pious Muslims . Some time later , the same women will by their own choice again will cut off all ties with the world , I have seen it happen here quite too often . Radicalization , that is what it is . They are building up the opinion towards one step further - extremism so if later the TTP or other extremist groups comes in some other form , the mindset will be already there for them to exploit."
Describe common..what is common in the West is not an everyday thing for the Eastern woman...

If all things were forbidden, I dont understand how Farhat Hashmi managed to reach Canada...she didnt walk there...she used a plane...

Ok...now minimizing yourself from indulging into world affairs is not exactly cutting yourself from the world...

Fair enough it may sound "radicalized" to you but by whose standards are you measuring this?

A woman in the West can freely hug and kiss a friend on the cheek and nothing is wrong...do that in Pakistan and no sooner will people start calling you Western something...but in the West she doesnt get called that...

Now please dont view Pakistan from your Western glasses....
 
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Its not the cancer yes so called secular slaves of west are proving to be real cancer nothing is going to get destroyed by Al Huda kind of people instead they are doing positive contribution to society and are also most involved in charity work too unlike the real cancer secular class

Honest, Educated and Civilized, absuletely non-discriminatory Muslims are what is needed and they're unfortunately a minority, such "Islamic" organizations are doing nothing but training bigots that tends to discrimination and violence, they're further polarizing the people againts each other.

I have friends that are religious Muslims and they almost never brings Islam to politics or daily relationships, they have friends that never or rarely prays, some of them are possibly Atheists, they just hang out like nothing is wrong, when the time of praying comes, religious guy just takes his excuse , prays and comes and continues chit chatting, watching stuff, going out together, this is perfection.

Meanwhile you sound like you would kill people over religion, religion and politics should be secondary things on our lifes, otherwise its ruins personal relationships, or entire countries or even regions.
 
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Yes, so far so good. The next step, which follow inevitably, is radicalization from this foundation. That is the danger. Once this process starts, there is no stopping it.



I am not implying anything. I am CLEARLY stating that this religiosity is a slippery slope down to hell for Pakistan.
How sure are you what the next step is? And how sure are you what percentage will take your idea of the next step?
 
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Describe common..what is common in the West is not an everyday thing for the Eastern woman...

If all things were forbidden, I dont understand how Farhat Hashmi managed to reach Canada...she didnt walk there...she used a plane...

Ok...now minimizing yourself from indulging into world affairs is not exactly cutting yourself from the world...

Fair enough it may sound "radicalized" to you but by whose standards are you measuring this?

A woman in the West can freely hug and kiss a friend on the cheek and nothing is wrong...do that in Pakistan and no sooner will people start calling you Western something...but in the West she doesnt get called that...

Now please dont view Pakistan from your Western glasses....

I will let @Secur reply to that first, since I used his words.
 
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When you stand in opposition to religiosity, openly saying that it is a path to extremism, it is not at all difficult to guess what you are implying.

But knowing you, another slick teflon argument is coming in 5...4...3...2...1...
Countdown was really good one @V Cheng nothing is going to happen it remains that way Sir institutions are teaching Islam and those governments who are not following Islam I mean Muslim governments yes they are afraid and they have to be other wise most Al Huda are teaching Islam doing the good work and seriously Muslim world give a dam about what west thinks
 
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What al-Huda and similar organizations are doing is starting the process of radicalization as described below very clearly:

Using @Secur 's post for your Parthian shot? I have asked Secur to provide some more information, because what he has said are general statements and those too from his perspective. You can not treat it as gospel truth, so to speak....

This is rather ingenious way of wasting people's time. 'I did not say this, I am only quoting someone who actually knows...' And of course you can walk away from Secur's generalities if and when convenient. Quite a piece of teflon you are.
 
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Honest, Educated and Civilized, absuletely non-discriminatory Muslims are what is needed and they're unfortunately a minority, such "Islamic" organizations are doing nothing but training bigots that tends to discrimination and violence, they're further polarizing the people againts each other.

I have friends that are religious Muslims and they almost never brings Islam to politics or daily relationships, they have friends that never or rarely prays, some of them are possibly Atheists, they just hang out like nothing is wrong, when the time of praying comes, religious guy just takes his excuse , prays and comes and continues chit chatting, watching stuff, going out together, this is perfection.

Meanwhile you sound like you would kill people over religion, religion and politics should be secondary things on our lifes, otherwise its ruins personal relationships, or entire countries or even regions.
For Muslims religion never was and never will be a secondary thing Sir and no one is training so called bigots they are just teaching Quran and Sunnah if some guys have problem with Quran and Sunnah nothing can be done about it

Using @Secur 's post for your Parthian shot? I have asked Secur to provide some more information, because what he has said are general statements and those too from his perspective. You can not treat it as gospel truth, so to speak....

This is rather ingenious way of wasting people's time. 'I did not say this, I am only quoting someone who actually knows...' And of course you can walk away from Secur's generalities if and when convenient. Quite a piece of teflon you are.
Can you please shut down this thread
 
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Using @Secur 's post for your Parthian shot? I have asked Secur to provide some more information, because what he has said are general statements and those too from his perspective. You can not treat it as gospel truth, so to speak....

This is rather ingenious way of wasting people's time. 'I did not say this, I am only quoting someone who actually knows...' And of course you can walk away from Secur's generalities if and when convenient. Quite a piece of teflon you are.

Like I said, let @Secur respond first. And then I will, ignoring your multiple attempts at personal attacks.
 
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For Muslims religion never was and never will be a secondary thing Sir and no one is training so called bigots they are just teaching Quran and Sunnah if some guys have problem with Quran and Sunnah nothing can be done about it


Can you please shut down this thread

Then please go live in a cave, out of human society, because you put religion over human relationships and thats damages society, if human society is nothing to you in comparison to religion, you don't need to try forcing your thoughts on people, you can just let it go and live in a cave, doing nothing but praying.

Today's Islam is full of interpretations, nobody just teaches rules and basics of Islam, they want to brainwash and reshape people according to what they believe is perfect Muslim.
 
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Let me start fresh how do people view Islamic Organizations in Pakistan from the outside:

1) who are these people

2) which organizations

3) why should it matter to us how people view?

Has it mattered to Christian preachers how Muslims view them? or zionists how the rest of the world views them? How about America ...how half the world has a hate-love relationship with the state policies?

Lastly, Why should it matter how the outside feels about us?

Many here in the West are homophobic...but they cant express themselves due to laws and of fear of being labelled something negative! But does that mean they feel any less homophobic? Try hugging a guy as a greeting will tell you tons or talk to one too smoothly and "get a room" is the next casual thing to say ;)

Why should it matter?

You are taking this way too seriously.... I only created this thread to clean another. I came up with the title on the spot just because neither @Secur nor @VCheng could actually convey with clarity what Al-Huda was about except some general statements from their perspective. They are obviously outsiders trying to give veiws about something which I felt they did not know much about. Maybe Secure knows more, but certainly not VCheng. He just latches on to anything negative to spread his brand of cynicism.

There really is not systematic way of going about this thread. But one thing is for sure that most people talking about such Islamic movements / organizations / institutions are basically outsiders and they can not adequately describe them. In that sense the thread's title is actually a subtle rebuke. That is all.
 
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Then please go live in a cave, out of human society, because you put religion over human relationships and thats damages society, if human society is nothing to you in comparison to religion, you don't need to try forcing your thoughts on people, you can just let it go and live in a cave, doing nothing but praying.

Today's Islam is full of interpretations, nobody just teaches rules and basics of Islam, they want to brainwash and reshape people according to what they believe is perfect Muslim.
No Sir that doesn't damages we don't need to live in caves we would live in areas its secular minority who should go and live in caves if they want and act like crap and read Quran and Sunnah and prove them wrong from that if you can't than please keep quite
 
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Like I said, in a society all the currents do not flow one way. I am aware of Al-Huda's Salafist tendencies. But for one Al-Huda I can point out some other Islamic organization that is not Salafist, has a broader scope, etc... But one thing is clear, any movement or organization that takes inspiration from our Deen would emphasize values accordingly. Modesty, being selective about modernity, Hijab, beard, etc... are going to be physical manifestations in any case. What really does matter is the world-view and the focus of individual choice and any attendant activism. That is where one could differentiate based on important distinctions.

This whole cultural thing is not some holy cow. Societies change. I suppose we could do with fewer Rasoom-o-Rawaj, most of which are just dead weight by now. Being a critic of these does not merit approbation in itself.

I admit my exposure to Al-Huda is limited. Perhaps you know more. I would therefore like you to describe you view of them concisely. I would very much like to know more about them.

Yes , they do not , we just are hoping for the negative influences to stop and it appears that it is too much to hope for , looking at the current influence of radical groups , forget the extremists for now . Why is it a common occurrence that almost every movement or organization that claims to take inspiration from the religion in this country appears to be narrow minded and in opposition to the ways of the world ? Is it just scotoma to take the easy way or is there indeed some truth to my allegation ? I mean seriously , quite a part of my family has gone in that way and I have seen this radicalization creep in , at a very young age . Do we really have to reject the modernity and cultural/societal practices to become pious and pure Muslims ? What exactly is this allergic reaction witnessed to scientific and worldly education by this religious crowd ? What is the basis of the obsession to look fourteen hundred years ago for each and every single of your needs , to reinvent the wheel as @Armstrong puts it ? Are we really trying to move back in time declaring the today's era inventions and ways as being not our way ? Do these women really have to put themselves in self imposed solitary confinement to be modest ? Does it have to the iron clad full body armor necessarily for modesty , what is the definition of modesty by the way ? Since you mention in your post that the organization in question has Salafist tendencies , I will assume that you know a few of these things , I will leave their view of the world politics and this country's Govt and the whole extremist saga for now .

I am not trying to say that culture is holy cow , it keeps changing with time and it isn't some necessary thing to do and the less the merrier . But to reject it outright to go back to the roots as is the frequently heard phrase isn't by any chance , positive . These women come into your home , sweet tongued and in groups of 2-4 initially , you get the dars - so far its all good , then the gathering widens , more women come , suddenly you are learning how such and such festivals and days observed commonly are forbidden since they well didn't exist back then , next on the agenda are your modesty - you start caving in gradually limiting your exposure to the world , next you are being told how such and such practices are again forbidden and take my word for it that its quite a list , the invention of Kafirs and their harm come later on , well you get the picture . I have seen relatives of mine go that way and its not a pretty picture when you see sane and rational people suddenly believing it all true and them not meeting anybody in the family since well you are different . I am talking in general about these groups and I have reasons to believe that al-Huda with its massive reach would be quite near that picture seeing how their Canada-bound founder thinks that calamities in Pakistan are due to the immoral activities of the countrymen . Just another group teaching not the religion but the Salafist interpretation of it , then ?
 
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