How did Jammu and Kashmir become a part of India? 9 facts on Accession Day

[Mace]

Ah, good ol' India stopping "madness" by illegally invading another territory through violent means.
That's beside the point, genius. If India invaded Hyderabad under the pretext of a majority Hindu population then they have no valid standing in their illegal occupation of Kashmir (majority Muslims).

What is your grievance? Ethnic Kashmiris did not become part of Pak or they are not independent?

 

[ranawat]

You guys cannot be serious about Hyderabad.

You could not hold Bangladesh in spite of sea and air access.

Cheers, Doc

Inspite of muslim population in both parts .

 

[waz]

Don't blame the Pakistan Army for this fiasco. AS you know I am a avid reader. I read a article on the history of Pakistan Military Academy [I have lost it and have been desperately trying to find it but you need to read it] by Brigadier Francis Ingall who set up PMA after 1947. He tells how his first batch of cadet officers almost mutinied because they felt Pakistan Army needed to go in and help the Kashmiri's instead of idling about and let the freedom fighters, Pashtun tribals and other irregular forces take the fight. In fact this was the first recorded case of military civilian crack to appear and later would lead to the Rawalpindi Conspiracy case. Ingall had the lead cadet placed on house arrest and reported this to Liaqat as he was required to do. The lead cadet officer was discharged.

The fact was the ML government of the time did absolutely nothing. It was more concerned about events in Hyderabad, UP, Junagadh because most of them were from India. The army on the other hand was effected by Kashmir because most men were from the GT road strip from Peshawar, Attock, Hazara, Rawalpindi, Jehlum etc and bordered Kashmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Ingall

Ps. Most of this failure has been covered up by vested interests in Pakistan and you will struggle to ever see this bing covered in mainstream Pakistan. Because this of course raises some difficult questions about figures like Liaqat Khan who have been turned into heroic figures in Pakistan history with titles like Quaid-e-Millat whereas he deserves the tile of "Quaid e loser of Kashmir". India has been painted as some evil Hindu entity. I also thought the same but as I began to read over the decades I saw the reality. India was not evil. she merely did what any state should do - secure it's self interest. Something that Pakistan should have done. When India was securing Hyderabad via the "Operation Polo" there should have been another "Polo" game being played by Pakistan in Kashmir. The fact that Pakistan did not was the fault of our leaders. That India took advantage and came out better was our failure. No point in covering up our failure by calling India 'evil. As they say the winner takes all. For loser is sour grapes.

And Liaqat got his just dessert. Bullet in the head. Pity he did not get it earlier and we did not have somebody like Maj.Gen. Akbar Khan in charge. Kashmir would have been part of Pakistan federation for the last 70 years.

And for those of you in Pakistan who croak on about the UN Resolution I would encourage you to read it. It was actually a sellout by Pakistan. First Pakistan failed to do a "Operation Polo" on Kashmir and then via the UN Resolutution it effectively sold Kashmir to India.

How so? The UN resolution actually requires Pakistan to -

1. Pull out it's troops from AJK
2. Leave behind Indian Army to oversee the plebicite

This is as good as sell out. The Indian's argue and rightly so that the question of plebicite is not on the table as Pakistan has failed to honour the UN resolution for 70 years. It has failed to meet condition [1]. Furthermore when Pakistan Army pulls out the Indian army stays behind in Kashmir. What do they say about possession being 9/10ths of the law?

It's Pakistan that has failed to implement the UN resolution. Not India !!!!!!!

I didn't blame the army why would I do that? I'll clarify further. By writing about the lack of organisation and support these men were under orders, I'm not disputing the fact they were not with us. Now look at how Kashmir was handled compared to Baluchistan, in the midst of a standstill agreement Pakistani forces had reached the Baloch coastal region of Pasni and then went on to march to Kalat.
There is a difference here.

 

[ranawat]

Don't blame the Pakistan Army for this fiasco. AS you know I am a avid reader. I read a article on the history of Pakistan Military Academy [I have lost it and have been desperately trying to find it but you need to read it] by Brigadier Francis Ingall who set up PMA after 1947. He tells how his first batch of cadet officers almost mutinied because they felt Pakistan Army needed to go in and help the Kashmiri's instead of idling about and let the freedom fighters, Pashtun tribals and other irregular forces take the fight. In fact this was the first recorded case of military civilian crack to appear and later would lead to the Rawalpindi Conspiracy case. Ingall had the lead cadet placed on house arrest and reported this to Liaqat as he was required to do. The lead cadet officer was discharged.

The fact was the ML government of the time did absolutely nothing. It was more concerned about events in Hyderabad, UP, Junagadh because most of them were from India. The army on the other hand was effected by Kashmir because most men were from the GT road strip from Peshawar, Attock, Hazara, Rawalpindi, Jehlum etc and bordered Kashmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Ingall

Ps. Most of this failure has been covered up by vested interests in Pakistan and you will struggle to ever see this bing covered in mainstream Pakistan. Because this of course raises some difficult questions about figures like Liaqat Khan who have been turned into heroic figures in Pakistan history with titles like Quaid-e-Millat whereas he deserves the tile of "Quaid e loser of Kashmir". India has been painted as some evil Hindu entity. I also thought the same but as I began to read over the decades I saw the reality. India was not evil. she merely did what any state should do - secure it's self interest. Something that Pakistan should have done. When India was securing Hyderabad via the "Operation Polo" there should have been another "Polo" game being played by Pakistan in Kashmir. The fact that Pakistan did not was the fault of our leaders. That India took advantage and came out better was our failure. No point in covering up our failure by calling India 'evil. As they say the winner takes all. For loser is sour grapes.

And Liaqat got his just dessert. Bullet in the head. Pity he did not get it earlier and we did not have somebody like Maj.Gen. Akbar Khan in charge. Kashmir would have been part of Pakistan federation for the last 70 years.

And for those of you in Pakistan who croak on about the UN Resolution I would encourage you to read it. It was actually a sellout by Pakistan. First Pakistan failed to do a "Operation Polo" on Kashmir and then via the UN Resolutution it effectively sold Kashmir to India.

How so? The UN resolution actually requires Pakistan to -

1. Pull out it's troops from AJK
2. Leave behind Indian Army to oversee the plebicite

This is as good as sell out. The Indian's argue and rightly so that the question of plebicite is not on the table as Pakistan has failed to honour the UN resolution for 70 years. It has failed to meet condition [1]. Furthermore when Pakistan Army pulls out the Indian army stays behind in Kashmir. What do they say about possession being 9/10ths of the law?

It's Pakistan that has failed to implement the UN resolution. Not India !!!!!!!

WHAAAAAAT ?

 

[TMA]

Don't blame the Pakistan Army for this fiasco. AS you know I am a avid reader. I read a article on the history of Pakistan Military Academy [I have lost it and have been desperately trying to find it but you need to read it] by Brigadier Francis Ingall who set up PMA after 1947. He tells how his first batch of cadet officers almost mutinied because they felt Pakistan Army needed to go in and help the Kashmiri's instead of idling about and let the freedom fighters, Pashtun tribals and other irregular forces take the fight. In fact this was the first recorded case of military civilian crack to appear and later would lead to the Rawalpindi Conspiracy case. Ingall had the lead cadet placed on house arrest and reported this to Liaqat as he was required to do. The lead cadet officer was discharged.

The fact was the ML government of the time did absolutely nothing. It was more concerned about events in Hyderabad, UP, Junagadh because most of them were from India. The army on the other hand was effected by Kashmir because most men were from the GT road strip from Peshawar, Attock, Hazara, Rawalpindi, Jehlum etc and bordered Kashmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Ingall

Ps. Most of this failure has been covered up by vested interests in Pakistan and you will struggle to ever see this bing covered in mainstream Pakistan. Because this of course raises some difficult questions about figures like Liaqat Khan who have been turned into heroic figures in Pakistan history with titles like Quaid-e-Millat whereas he deserves the tile of "Quaid e loser of Kashmir". India has been painted as some evil Hindu entity. I also thought the same but as I began to read over the decades I saw the reality. India was not evil. she merely did what any state should do - secure it's self interest. Something that Pakistan should have done. When India was securing Hyderabad via the "Operation Polo" there should have been another "Polo" game being played by Pakistan in Kashmir. The fact that Pakistan did not was the fault of our leaders. That India took advantage and came out better was our failure. No point in covering up our failure by calling India 'evil. As they say the winner takes all. For loser is sour grapes.

And Liaqat got his just dessert. Bullet in the head. Pity he did not get it earlier and we did not have somebody like Maj.Gen. Akbar Khan in charge. Kashmir would have been part of Pakistan federation for the last 70 years.

And for those of you in Pakistan who croak on about the UN Resolution I would encourage you to read it. It was actually a sellout by Pakistan. First Pakistan failed to do a "Operation Polo" on Kashmir and then via the UN Resolutution it effectively sold Kashmir to India.

How so? The UN resolution actually requires Pakistan to -

1. Pull out it's troops from AJK
2. Leave behind Indian Army to oversee the plebicite

This is as good as sell out. The Indian's argue and rightly so that the question of plebicite is not on the table as Pakistan has failed to honour the UN resolution for 70 years. It has failed to meet condition [1]. Furthermore when Pakistan Army pulls out the Indian army stays behind in Kashmir. What do they say about possession being 9/10ths of the law?

It's Pakistan that has failed to implement the UN resolution. Not India !!!!!!!

I am glad that you are talking about this history...Pakistanis need to learn about this...so we can learn our lessons for the future....

 

[ranawat]

I didn't blame the army why would I do that? I'll clarify further. By writing about the lack of organisation and support these men were under orders, I'm not disputing the fact they were not with us. Now look at how Kashmir was handled compared to Baluchistan, in the midst of a standstill agreement Pakistani forces had reached the Baloch coastal region of Pasni and then went on to march to Kalat.
There is a difference here.

Same thing happened in kashmir .

 

[Indus Pakistan]

put big bro.

To be honest I have a advantage. You know to really size something you need to move away from it. If your stuck in the trees you can't see the jungle. You need to rise high up to be able to see the big picture. Being as I was brought up in UK and was fortunate to recieve a reasonable education - one aspect of which is retaining the ability to objectively look at things and critically evaluation. Furthermore I have not been at all limited by the brainwashing that Pakistani education imbues. All this gives me access to and ability to look at Pakistan minus the bullshat. Which is why I have I believe a very unique insight into Pakistan. The only thing is if I actually fully 'outed' it I would probably have to leave PDF. Ultimately you got to fit in. And just for the record I actually do not have any problems with Hindus or Indians from any class, caste, ethnic group or religion. I actually just play up on the prejudices that I know exist in South Asia for dramatic or as tool to garner support thus acting as a counter weight to my maverick views.

I am glad that you are talking about this history...Pakistanis need to learn about this...so we can learn our lessons for the future....

If you get the time read the UN resolution and you will be shocked. Condition number 1 is Pakistan pulls out it's army out of AJK and Indian Army secures all of Kashmir for the plebicite. Can you believe that?

 

[Lincoln]

Don't blame the Pakistan Army for this fiasco. AS you know I am a avid reader. I read a article on the history of Pakistan Military Academy [I have lost it and have been desperately trying to find it but you need to read it] by Brigadier Francis Ingall who set up PMA after 1947. He tells how his first batch of cadet officers almost mutinied because they felt Pakistan Army needed to go in and help the Kashmiri's instead of idling about and let the freedom fighters, Pashtun tribals and other irregular forces take the fight. In fact this was the first recorded case of military civilian crack to appear and later would lead to the Rawalpindi Conspiracy case. Ingall had the lead cadet placed on house arrest and reported this to Liaqat as he was required to do. The lead cadet officer was discharged.

The fact was the ML government of the time did absolutely nothing. It was more concerned about events in Hyderabad, UP, Junagadh because most of them were from India. The army on the other hand was effected by Kashmir because most men were from the GT road strip from Peshawar, Attock, Hazara, Rawalpindi, Jehlum etc and bordered Kashmir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Ingall

Ps. Most of this failure has been covered up by vested interests in Pakistan and you will struggle to ever see this bing covered in mainstream Pakistan. Because this of course raises some difficult questions about figures like Liaqat Khan who have been turned into heroic figures in Pakistan history with titles like Quaid-e-Millat whereas he deserves the tile of "Quaid e loser of Kashmir". India has been painted as some evil Hindu entity. I also thought the same but as I began to read over the decades I saw the reality. India was not evil. she merely did what any state should do - secure it's self interest. Something that Pakistan should have done. When India was securing Hyderabad via the "Operation Polo" there should have been another "Polo" game being played by Pakistan in Kashmir. The fact that Pakistan did not was the fault of our leaders. That India took advantage and came out better was our failure. No point in covering up our failure by calling India 'evil. As they say the winner takes all. For loser is sour grapes.

And Liaqat got his just dessert. Bullet in the head. Pity he did not get it earlier and we did not have somebody like Maj.Gen. Akbar Khan in charge. Kashmir would have been part of Pakistan federation for the last 70 years.

And for those of you in Pakistan who croak on about the UN Resolution I would encourage you to read it. It was actually a sellout by Pakistan. First Pakistan failed to do a "Operation Polo" on Kashmir and then via the UN Resolutution it effectively sold Kashmir to India.

How so? The UN resolution actually requires Pakistan to -

1. Pull out it's troops from AJK
2. Leave behind Indian Army to oversee the plebicite

This is as good as sell out. The Indian's argue and rightly so that the question of plebicite is not on the table as Pakistan has failed to honour the UN resolution for 70 years. It has failed to meet condition [1]. Furthermore when Pakistan Army pulls out the Indian army stays behind in Kashmir. What do they say about possession being 9/10ths of the law?

It's Pakistan that has failed to implement the UN resolution. Not India !!!!!!!

I would've to disagree, although Pakistan objected to pulling all of it's troops out, India objected to pulling out even a fraction of it's troops from the Kashmir region. Furthermore, the UN Resolution of 1949 clearly states that this can only occur once their is a complete understanding and agreement between the two countries. India never stepped forward to even form that understanding or agreement to make arrangements for a Plebiscite therefore there was no reason for Pakistan to unconditionally withdraw and lose rest of Kashmir.

 

[TMA]

To be honest I have a advantage. You know to really size something you need to move away from it. If your stuck in the trees you can't see the jungle. You need to rise high up to be able to see the big picture. Being as I was brought up in UK and was fortunate to recieve a reasonable education - one aspect of which is retaining the ability to objectively look at things and critically evaluation. Furthermore I have not been at all limited by the brainwashing that Pakistani education imbues. All this gives me access to and ability to look at Pakistan minus the bullshat. Which is why I have I believe a very unique insight into Pakistan. The only thing is if I actually fully 'outed' it I would probably have to leave PDF. Ultimately you got to fit in. And just for the record I actually do not have any problems with Hindus or Indians from any class, caste, ethnic group or religion. I actually just play up on the prejudices that I know exist in South Asia for dramatic or as tool to garner support thus acting as a counter weight to my maverick views.

If you get the time read the UN resolution and you will be shocked. Condition number 1 is Pakistan pulls out it's army out of AJK and Indian Army secures all of Kashmir for the plebicite. Can you believe that?

So was it Liaquat Ali Khan who signed those terms?? I mean whoever it was, what the hell were they smoking? Was Pakistan in such a weak position that she had to accept such unjust terms or was there more than meets the eye? (i.e conspiracy)

 

[YeBeWarned]

Kashmiri's have their last best chance in 65, which they let go when they identified and help IA capturing/killing those SF sent by Pakistan .

 

[Politico]

I would've to disagree, although Pakistan objected to pulling all of it's troops out, India objected to pulling out even a fraction of it's troops from the Kashmir region. Furthermore, the UN Resolution of 1949 clearly states that this can only occur once their is a complete understanding and agreement between the two countries. India never stepped forward to even form that understanding or agreement to make arrangements for a Plebiscite therefore there was no reason for Pakistan to unconditionally withdraw and lose rest of Kashmir.

You're asking your enemy to be magnanimous and beneficial ?

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I would've to disagree, although Pakistan objected to pulling all of it's troops out, India objected to pulling out even a fraction of it's troops from the Kashmir region. Furthermore, the UN Resolution of 1949 clearly states that this can only occur once their is a complete understanding and agreement between the two countries. India never stepped forward to even form that understanding or agreement to make arrangements for a Plebiscite therefore there was no reason for Pakistan to unconditionally withdraw and lose rest of Kashmir.

I know. The UN Resolution was not worth the paper it was printed on. It had holes in it big enough for a herd of elephants to charge through. And sure enough India did. The fact was Kashmi was lost from the day Pakistan failed to do "Polo" on the day India did a "Polo" on Hyderabad. Rest is history ....


And you tell me whose fault was that? Sardar Patel was only doing his job, so was Nehru doing his job for India. But what the fcuk were our leaders like "Quaid-e-Millat" doing. Showing fists ......

Ps. And we have a bagh in Rawalpindi named after this loser "Quaid-e-Millat"

 

[Jackdaws]

The accession document doesn't mean $hit, the Indian army invaded Hyderabad under the pretence of a majority Hindu population shouldn't go to Pakistan, so it's null.
Kashmir is unfinished partition business, the state should have gone to Pakistan.
Pakistan should have invaded the moment that filth Hari Singh put forward his standstill agreement.

Nope. Read some real history. India signed a standstill agreement with Hyderabad and honored it. It was Hyderabad which violated it. Kinda like Pakistan violated the Standstill Agreement with the independent State of Kashmir.

 

[Lincoln]

You're asking your enemy to be magnanimous and beneficial ?

Under light of the UN Resolution and the fact that Nehru himself said at that time they will grant the people of Kashmir there wish, that is what you would expect.

Indians are trying to downplay the rebellion of Kashmiri people as Pathan invasion to distort reality, they should ask their fellow country men who have visited Kashmir, they will find that people hate India, the national anthem of India is not given any respect in the universities and colleges and neither is the flag given a platform to be hoisted without disturbance.

Kashmir is not a lost cause though.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Kashmiri's have their last best chance in 65, which they let go when they identified and help IA capturing/killing those SF sent by Pakistan

Bollocks. 1965 was lost because of failure to second guess Indian counter attack on Lahore in event of Jammu being threatened by PA. A few traitors in Kashmir can't be reason for defeat in war.